Billboard asking people to skip church on Christmas stirs controversy

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Show you? What lies? We have shown how illogical your belief is in God's love and hell.

Boy I am so glad they put up that billboard! It is making people think hard!

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

i was just told that christianity really doesn't matter, so take the billboard as an invitation to just live your life without worship. ritual can be kinda fun but i think humans need to move on and discuss more important issues. either way, more secularism is never a bad thing, refer to the middle east for example.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Show you? What lies? We have shown how illogical your belief is in God's love and hell.

Boy I am so glad they put up that billboard! It is making people think hard!

What have you shown me? Every time you make a comment I correct it, you can find no flaw in my logic, and you move on to something else.

The initial lie was that the belief that you can be redeemed, you can get more than you deserve and there is always hope is a negative idea. And the positive way to look at things is that there is no such thing as redemption, it can't happen.

Every post the lot of you have made was rebutted by me so thoroughly you had no answer. Who was illogical again?

ETA: My last post I asked you to show me where I "preached", as was your claim, you completely ignore it. Every one of your falsehoods is proven and you simply move on to the next, without ever rebutting my post, not once.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
Absolutely. The definition of a "good person" is one who has never sinned once. Not even a lie. If you can do that you are just fine. You only need help once you make a mistake.

This really is OT for the thread but from what I remember when I went to a Catholic HS is that you could screw up as much as you wanted provided you went to God and asked for forgiveness at the end. I'll be honest, the whole thing sounded a bit contrived to me and still does. From where I'm sitting the person who actively makes the world a worse place, but then asks God for forgiveness (and for arguments sake, lets say they get it) hasn't done anything to try and make the world a better place. They've simply asked another being to make it all better.

Unless that God were a bigger narcissist than Obama+Trump combined I just can't imagine a being that supposedly wants the best for humanity to accept that as a positive outcome.

Also, perhaps this is because of my own religious leanings but I have way more respect for a person who does something bad, and then follows it up with good deeds to still create a net positive in the world than I do for a person who does bad deeds and only attempts to fix his position in the afterlife rather than deal with all of the people here on earth.

originally posted by: vjr1113
a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

i was just told that christianity really doesn't matter, so take the billboard as an invitation to just live your life without worship. ritual can be kinda fun but i think humans need to move on and discuss more important issues. either way, more secularism is never a bad thing, refer to the middle east for example.

So I assume you are a "good" person under the definition I gave? Or are you simply lying, again?

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
Christians complained about this billboard and atheists preaching to them in this thread and now they are preaching to us. LOL.

Imagine that.

Funny thing is atheists aren't preaching to believers. They're encouraging "in the closet" atheists to stop faking it.

a reply to: Aazadan

You remember slightly wrong. The person has to actually be truly sorry. It's the difference between someone who makes a mistake and truly knows they did wrong and wishing they could make it right, and the person who is sorry they got caught.

Only one is forgiven. The person who thinks they can do what they want and just say sorry at the end is most likely the latter, and sorry you got caught doesn't cut it.

The former is the type that will put forth good works, and the world will be a better place.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
Christians complained about this billboard and atheists preaching to them in this thread and now they are preaching to us. LOL.

Imagine that.

Funny thing is atheists aren't preaching to believers. They're encouraging "in the closet" atheists to stop faking it.

More lies. Imagine that. I asked him to show me where I preached. He refused to answer. No surprise you take up the mantle, I bet you won't answer either.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
Christians complained about this billboard and atheists preaching to them in this thread and now they are preaching to us. LOL.

Imagine that.

Funny thing is atheists aren't preaching to believers. They're encouraging "in the closet" atheists to stop faking it.

I bet you won't answer either.

Correct.

I am ignoring you.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
Christians complained about this billboard and atheists preaching to them in this thread and now they are preaching to us. LOL.

Imagine that.

Funny thing is atheists aren't preaching to believers. They're encouraging "in the closet" atheists to stop faking it.

I bet you won't answer either.

Correct.

I am ignoring you.

I would probably ignore me too if I said as many wrong things as you and got tired of being corrected without ever being able to find a single flaw in the correction.

Ignoring me should extend to not responding to posts directed at me though, as you will continue to look silly when you claim I am preaching and then refuse to answer when I say no I am not, show me where.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

i dont agree with your definition of a good person. sin just means disobeying the word of god, and we can discuss that if you want. but id say im a generally a nice person. have i made mistakes, yes but i dont think i deserve hell because of them, not at all. i try not to lie, that's an honest answer.

my only "sin" is my punctuation lol

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Aazadan

You remember slightly wrong. The person has to actually be truly sorry. It's the difference between someone who makes a mistake and truly knows they did wrong and wishing they could make it right, and the person who is sorry they got caught.

Only one is forgiven. The person who thinks they can do what they want and just say sorry at the end is most likely the latter, and sorry you got caught doesn't cut it.

The former is the type that will put forth good works, and the world will be a better place.

That's the difference between us. I don't see any difference between the two. What I would see is if the person who were sorry went out into the world each day and legitimately tried to make it a better place. They might not be able to directly undo what they did to one person, but they can make up for it with others.

originally posted by: vjr1113
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

i dont agree with your definition of a good person. sin just means disobeying the word of god, and we can discuss that if you want. but id say im a generally a nice person. have i made mistakes, yes but i dont think i deserve hell because of them, not at all. i try not to lie, that's an honest answer.

my only "sin" is my punctuation lol

Then why did you make a post taking my post at face value if you do not agree? What you did was lie. Seems you people can't get over the fact you can't win with logic and truth so you resort to lies.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

you mean when you said, you dont need christianity to get salvation, and i said well then christianity doesn't really matter?

we can go into that if you want. maybe i made a mistake in what you meant but i doubt it

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Aazadan

You remember slightly wrong. The person has to actually be truly sorry. It's the difference between someone who makes a mistake and truly knows they did wrong and wishing they could make it right, and the person who is sorry they got caught.

Only one is forgiven. The person who thinks they can do what they want and just say sorry at the end is most likely the latter, and sorry you got caught doesn't cut it.

The former is the type that will put forth good works, and the world will be a better place.

That's the difference between us. I don't see any difference between the two. What I would see is if the person who were sorry went out into the world each day and legitimately tried to make it a better place. They might not be able to directly undo what they did to one person, but they can make up for it with others.

I think you need to read my post again. You are agreeing with me.

Jas 2:14
What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?

Jas 2:15
Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food.

Jas 2:16
If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?

Jas 2:17
In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

Jas 2:18
But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.

Jas 2:19
You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

Jas 2:20
You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is uselessfn?

Jas 2:21
Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?

Jas 2:22
You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.

originally posted by: vjr1113
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

you mean when you said, you dont need christianity to get salvation, and i said well then christianity doesn't really matter?

we can go into that if you want. maybe i made a mistake in what you meant but i doubt it

Not at all what I said. You need to be a Christian to get salvation. I said if you can be a "good person" defined as having never sinned, not even a lie, you do not need salvation.

You do not need forgiveness if there is nothing to forgive. You took that and ran with it saying no one needs forgiveness at all ever, which is not what I said, and you simply wanted to lie to further your agenda.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

oh well, i disagree with your definition of a "good person". people make mistakes sometimes but i wouldn't say that condemns then to be labeled as a bad guy from there on. i accept sincere apologies and believe people can learn and change. if you want to say anyone that has ever made a mistake is bad, id say that's unfair and ultimately locks all of humanity into original sin, a philosophy i absolutely hate.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

You need to be a Christian to get salvation. I said if you can be a "good person" defined as having never sinned, not even a lie, you do not need salvation.

I guess that would depend on your particular point of view. For a good number of Christians, the necessity of being "saved" would apply to all humans.

The doctrine of original sin holds that every person born into the world is tainted by the Fall such that all of humanity is ethically debilitated, and people are powerless to rehabilitate themselves, unless rescued by God.

www.theopedia.com...

Your theological interpretation is the correct one?

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

I found that amusing, as well.

Given how my last few days have gone, I'll take amusing where ever I can.

Tempest in a teapot. A billboard. MMMMMMMeeeeeeehhhhhhhh.

originally posted by: vjr1113
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

oh well, i disagree with your definition of a "good person". people make mistakes sometimes but i wouldn't say that condemns then to be labeled as a bad guy from there on. i accept sincere apologies and believe people can learn and change. if you want to say anyone that has ever made a mistake is bad, id say that's unfair and ultimately locks all of humanity into original sin, a philosophy i absolutely hate.

Original Sin as in the idea you are born a sinner I also hate. Why is the idea that the only mistakes a person needs to answer for are their own bad?

When you sin, you are a sinner. If you do not sin, you are not. The Atheist idea that people are responsible for themselves is very Christian, whether they want to admit it or not. You own the wrong YOU have done.

Scenario. Two people steal from you. One feels terrible, they come to you and say listen, I did it, and I wish I could take it back so I can't. I will, for the rest of my life, work to make this world a better place. The other you only find out when the cops bust him, and he offers a lip service apology.

Do you see a difference? Do you have a problem with person 1 not going to jail, and person 2 going to jail?