Five police officers claim Donald Trump is RIGHT about parts of London

originally posted by: TheBulk
I'm not calling you a left winger because I dont know you well enough, by why are left wingers so supportive and protective of Islam but so condescending and bigoted towards Christians? Is it a case of shared enemies and agendas?

I can only speak for myself, but not one Muslim has EVER tried to convert me to their religion. None have ever come to my door peddling their religion. There isn't a huge push in this country by Muslims to deny rights to LGBT people or deny a woman the right to her own body.

I support anyone's right to practice their religion. When they start forcing it into government and trying to deny people their constitutionally protected rights, I will condemn it. I am not condescending and bigoted towards Christians, but they do have a history of imposing themselves and their beliefs on others.

Old topic of mine from 2010

www.abovetopsecret.com...

2015

Police: Yes, there ARE No-Go Zones in Sweden
swedenreport.org...

“The situation is slipping from our grasp,” he says about infamous enclaves Tensta and Rinkeby. “If we’re in pursuit of a vehicle, it can evade us by driving to certain neighborhoods where a lone patrol car simply cannot follow, because we’ll get pelted by rocks and even face riots. These are No-Go Zones. We simply can’t go there.”

Swedish Police Release Extensive Report Detailing Control Of 55 ‘No-Go Zones’ By Muslim Criminal Gangs

Read more: dailycaller.com...< br />
CNN Owes Jindal Apology: NYT Admits ‘Mythical’ Muslim No-Go Zones Exist
www.breitbart.com...

I don't know what is up with all the denial, but other Europeans on the forum once verified these no go zones.

Heck we have them here.

TextMuslim No-Go Zones do exist in Europe. Going back more than a decade, DC Media outlets like the AP, NBC, CNN and New York Times have been reporting on these Muslim No-Go Zones.

a reply to: TheBulk

I couldn't tell you, Bulk...

I guess it could be shared enemies...

It could also be the wrong perception of criticism being aimed at *insert group*...

Happens to every demographic on ATS.

I don't think US people, at the end of the day, want to see a reminiscence of McCarthyism of the mid 20th century.
Trumphery---ism is the same thing, it is creating a fear.
As for the Daily Mail, it's a rag, a conservative one at that.
If you read the content, the biggest concern for police is the so-called no go areas of the big cities, and there are some places where police in uniform can be targeted by gangsters, and many, or most of them are predominantly white working class areas, in fact that is mostly what the unidentified officers in the story are talking about. There has always been a criminal culture in parts of big city Britain, while the advent of drug use in working class areas has changed the ethos of those criminal cultures, where they try to take over some of the vast housing estates that are common in Britain after WW2, with the use of youngsters who vandalise and destroy would be communities, and make policing difficult.
That there is a directive about uniforms off duty or to and from work, that is plain common sense in the current climate, in fact it should be the norm everywhere, anyway. I would guess too that in some areas the police turn a blind eye at events.
Of course, a shout from across the water to here is not something to be ignored, but not when it's done in ignorance,
I didn't hear Trump mention Amish where the local law can turn a blind eye at times, how much can they get away with that most citizens can't, I dare say KKK and Neo Nazis spend much of their time cocking a snoot at the law as they march down the road spreading the message..whatever it is.

a reply to: flammadraco
Help me with this because I keep hearing people say, that only less than 0.5% of the Muslims are radicalised, and the good and modest Muslims don't support them, or even recognize them was Muslims.

So how does this handful of radicalised Muslims terrorize and rule a whole town to the point that even the police have no sway?

Maybe some of those people that are so quick to defend the good and moderate Muslims might want to entertain the thought that maybe keeping quiet and not intervening, is the same as supporting.

Before someone jumps in and start throwing a bunch of old stinky fish around trying distract from the issue. The question is very simple. If the number of radicalised Muslims are so small and insignificant, and if 99.5% of the Muslim communities, do not support them, or recognize him as Muslins, how are they able to get away with hanging posters, patrolling, terrorizing, and ruling their comunities to the degree, that the actual police are rendered ineffective?

Without support, there is no way this could happen, and there is no way that 99.5% of the population is so afraid of he 0.5% that they would not work with the police to clean their communities of this menace.

On November 4, 2005, NBC News — yes, that NBC News — ran what appears to have been a morning digest item entitled "The Tone of the No Go Zones." It referenced its own coverage, while also citing items found at Gateway Pundit and the Brussels Journal blog. At the latter, the following passage described the nature of these zones:

... We are just witnessing the beginning of Europe’s problems: “The sweet dream of universal cultural compatibility has been replaced by the nightmare of permanent conflict.”

Our mainstream media, in attempts to preserve the Left’s chimera of “universal cultural compatibility,” hardly write about all this. Nevertheless, for some years now West European city folk and police officers have been familiar with the reality that certain areas of major European cities are no-go areas, especially at night and certainly if you are white or wearing a uniform. Three years ago, a French friend who had his car stolen learned that the thieves had parked the car in a particular suburb. When he went to the police he was told that the police did not operate in that neighbourhood and consequently would not be able to retrieve his car. This is Western Europe in the early 21st century.

Nicolas Sarkozy became France’s most popular politician by promising to restore law and order in the whole of France, including in the areas abandoned by previous governments.

- See more at: www.newsbusters.org...[/ exnews]

youtu.be...
London's 'Muslim Patrol' aims to impose Sharia law in East London

New York Times Referenced Paris 'No-Go Zones' in 2005 - Without Lawsuit Threat Fox Received

On December 11th, 2005 in an article entitled "In The Paris Slums, No Jobs, No Sun," which focused on the predominantly Muslim area of La Courneuve in Paris, Times writer Elaine Sciolino talked about the French governments failure to integrate the largely Islamic community into the rest of Parisian society and the violence and frustration that it had caused among much of the areas population.

“Branded by France's police intelligence agency as one of the country's 150 "no go zones," where police officers should enter only with major reinforcements, La Courneuve was caught up in the violence in which rioters torched cars, trashed businesses and ambushed the police.”
Indeed, as far back as 1996 it appears that Parisian authorities were carving out "no-go zones" or "Sensitive Urban Zones" in order to warn their police force to use extreme caution when entering those neighborhoods

www.mrctv.org...

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

Hey SkepticOverLord...never had a chance to talk to you on ATS, so color me tickled


You know, I'm rather conflicted on all of this. I have abstained from voting since Clinton's last run. I personally am inclined to think (not believe, as I personally have no proof) that our two party system is one of cronyism and theater. Old boys who "took one for the team" earlier in their career, and were replayed later on with placement in high offices.

I am also inclined to think that, much as Bill Hicks said, the two parties are puppets worn on the hands of the same puppeteer.


Now, my gut reaction to Trump is opposite to yours. His anti-establishment / anti-party-line stance truly strikes a major chord deep inside of me. Not because I am some sort of anarchist, rather, that I feel our system is broken, wholly corrupted, and for sale to the highest bidder. Personally, I feel that the United States of America as it stands today, embodies the trademarks of a failed experiment. Am I saying any other particular society or culture is whole sale better off than America, not at all.

But, one thing I DO BELIEVE is that our United States needs a course correction. It won't be pretty, and eggs will end up broken.

I am most definitely not a "toe dipper" when it comes to doing something. When I do, I do it full force. Suffice it to say I have the touch of a 32-lb sledgehammer, not a feather.

The only problem with what Trump is suggesting, is that we and other countries have already dealt with this situation.

Make guns illegal, and the only person it will deter is the law abiding person.

Ask a person their religious adherence, the true and good Muslims will be greatly mistreated. The bad element will deny being Muslim.

I was talking with my wife earlier, and told her that I feel as if Trump is going to make me have to register and vite for him. And she moved me to this viewpoint. She said "What if everyone asked if their name was Nullafides (or Flynn for that matter as that is my real name)? Those will wanted into the country would simply say 'Nope, my name is Ishmael'."

This being said, I feel that the idea of banning Muslims is as ludicrous as "Gun Control".

My wife also feels that his delivery method is far too blustery, and a subtle more diplomatic way of stating these things without changing the content would be a far better approach.

To me though, what he's saying just strikes me so deep, it has basically blinded me to his delivery method. Once having talked to my wife about this, I have to say, I agree with her.

The reason he resonates so deeply with my own thoughts is that I feel we are being far too politically correct as citizens, and that our elected government merely has alternative and non-altruistic motives.

In a rather odd epiphany I've had just now, I cannot help but believe that I am as susceptible to radicalization on this topic with Trump as those who have been radicalized to the point of joining ISIS.

At least I've come to this realization of myself, and can use it to better applies my instincts and viewpoints to such topics.

And BTW when it comes to allowing people of certain religious persuasion into America, less the 1% coming from the middle east are Christian.

thehill.com...

America is about to accept 9000 Syrian Muslims, refugees of the brutal war between the Assad regime and its Sunni opposition, which includes ISIS, Al Qaeda, and various other militias. That number is predicted to increase each year. There are no Christian refugees that will be admitted.

Why? Because the Department of State is adhering with all the rigidity of a Soviet era bureaucracy to the rule that only people at risk from massacres launched by the regime qualify for refugee status. The rapes of Christian women and the butchery of Christian children do not count. No matter how moved Americans were this Christmas season by the plight of their fellow Christ followers in Syria and Iraq, no matter how horrific the visuals of beheadings, enslavement, and mass murder, the Christians fleeing death do not engender the compassion of this president.
The Christians are being raped, tortured, and murdered by militias, not by the Syrian government. This technicality condemns them to continue to be victims without hope. And this technicality is being adhered to with all the tenacity with which President Franklin D. Roosevelt’s State Department manipulated quotas and created subterfuges to keep out the Jews fleeing the oppression of Nazi Germany. Obama no more wa

Maybe there is not that many left alive.

I've said it before. Most NO-go zones are just normal crime zones, such as certain areas of detroit after dark. We don't go there, because it's common sense to not be by yourself at 2am in a dark alley in an impoverished area with bad lighting. It's always been that way since the beginning of civilization.

I'd have to get my passport, but I'll go to any "no-go sharia law" zone, hang out there for a couple of days and film it to prove it.

If you think there's one in the US, give me room and board and I'll drive there and prove to you that it doesn't exist.

We need to stop living in a FEAR environment. Don't be afraid of your own shadow. I'm not.

a reply to: TheBulk

You realize that "take our country back" has been a common theme in American politics going all the way back to the start? You also realize it was the 2004 DNC slogan? Howard Dean even wrote a book at the time and called it "taking back our country".

I'm aware and Obama has also used the phrase in campaigning, at least in the 2008 election. It's a popular slogan for stirring up nationalist sentiment though I'm not entirely sure it goes "all the way back." There's also "American exceptionalism" which has been popular in rhetoric from both parties.

That said, there's clearly a difference in how these slogans resonate with the bases wouldn't you say?

I don't recall seeing a lot of Dean supporters wearing tricornes either...

Is this anything like the left constant demonetization of gun owners, Christians, white people and generally anyone who stands in the way of their agenda? I'm sure you have a rationalization for why demonetization of these groups is different.

I've asked no less than two dozen times people in the last year to point out this rampant demonizing of whites and Christians and nobody ever obliges. Maybe you could convince me that this is a real thing with some concrete examples of politicians demonizing white people or Christians?

As for gun ownership. There's definitely a lot of irrationality on the left (which in the US is really more center-right than true left) about guns but demonizing?

There's a very simply reason that you don't see politicians on the left demonizing whites or Christians — they're a majority of the party and the politicians. Take a look at Congress.

House:

246 Republicans - 95% white non-Hispanic, 5% all others
188 Democrats - 60% white non-Hispanic, 40% all others

Senate

44 Democrats - 93% white non-Hispanic
54 Republicans - 93% white non-Hispanic
2 Independents - 100% white, both caucus with Democrats

92% of all members of both houses of Congress are Christian. Only 2 members of Congress are Muslim, Andre Carson and Keith Ellison, both Democrats.

How about voters? There are two good sources for this, PRC from 2014 and Gallup from 2012. The Gallup survey used 300,000+ interviews and it breaks up the results more conveniently so I'll use that, but here's the PRC study from 2014 if you want to check it out.

Republicans:

89% white
2% black
6% Hispanic
1% Asian

Democrats:

60% white
22% black
13% Hispanic
1% Asian

I don't really feel any obligation to break down all the PRC data on religion, but it suffices to say that about 70% of all respondents reported being Christian and a majority of people on the left are in fact, Christians.

There's simply nothing to gain and everything to lose by demonizing whites and Christians which is why it's not really a thing. There's little to be lost demonizing a group like Muslims because they're < 1% of the US population (and therefore votes) and < 1% of either party.

It's easy to just say things why don't you try making a substantial argument instead?

If this is so bad why does the UK let them get away with this?

I personally think this is way out of bounds


But I imagine it’s not a crime if they let it happen

originally posted by: gosseyn
You really have to look at this not from a religious perspective but from a class warfare perspective. Do you think muslims are not human beings, that they form a different species ? That they are some kind of robots with only one programming, or aliens from a different planet with a different brain and a different nervous system and that they came to our planet flying in their mosque-shaped spaceships ?

Urban zones where police don't go can be found all over the planet. It's not specific to muslims or any other religious group. It's specific to a planet where 10% of the population owns 90% of the resources.

I think you are right sad fact is the media tells us its the evil Muslims so they get the focus of the rage and the actual reason for this mess is ignored..... We are a dumb race that is easily manipulated......

The same things happen in America an other places with gangs. Think about it gangs and cultural driven places even in Miami cops can't go. Also I would bet most of those places can and do enforce their own kind of law as well. What sets it apart is where they are trying to promote their own law to the public.

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord
The Trumpmeister is taking a great deal of both deserved and postured heat after his statements that he'd want to block all Muslims who aren't US citizens from entering the country (except for foreign leaders and rich Muslims, of course). The heat isn't just coming from home, the intensity of the jerking of knees is being felt from all corners of the globe as everyone who seems to be anyone is scrambling to be associated with denouncing Trump's statements. While I'm not a fan of Trump and certainly against blanket statements about "evil Islam," I do favor the truth, no matter what form it might take.

Well, it's beginning to look like there's some truth to some of the rationale Trump used to justify his statements, police officers in London are indeed concerned for their safety in some Muslim communities:

'Trump’s not wrong – we can’t wear uniform in our OWN cars': Five police officers claim Donald Trump is RIGHT about parts of London being so 'radicalised' they are no-go areas

Serving police officers today backed Donald Trump's claim that some Muslim communities in the UK are no-go areas because of extremism.
Several Met officers have said 'Islamification' of the capital means they must be 'extra vigilant' and can't wear uniforms for safety reasons - despite Scotland Yard claiming the tycoon 'couldn't be more wrong'.

Is this really true of so called radical Muslim communities? Or are these officers jumping on an anti-Muslim bandwagon in the huge wake of anti-Trump tongue wagging?

To be clear, even though I'm an atheist, I reject the notion of a religious test for entry into this country... it's insane. However, is Trump crazy like a fox? Is he throwing stuff like this out there, stuff he knows would never happen, as part of a broader communications strategy to keep drilling home the idea that he's the only candidate that is definably, America First.

Thoughts?

Wow SO I'm impressed. I wasn't expecting to see you as the author of this thread after the last one...two. I went through a feverish week posting threads about the exact topic a while back. I took heat but I didn't care after I spent quite a bit of time searching through all sorts of documentaries and coming to realize for the past 15 years, EU was going through this. All media has been quiet in the west and only now since Trump mentioned it, have I noticed some msm talking about it.

I know several people who have seen these groups of thugs marching about in London as though they are in control and one described it as "alien and its not nice or actually how the English behave". But we also have a Jewish so-called police car parading around, again something that shouldn't be there at all if the law is observed. We have one police force thank you and no one is supposed to take the law into their own hands but clearly the religious think they are above it.

The real issue is really about these immigrants trying to bring in Sharia law and the British public's ignorance about exactly what these laws entail. Further its about whether Sharia courts will try to rule over non muslims lives because these laws for muslims override any country legal system that they live in. Imagine an islamic woman's adultery with a non muslim man - would he be liable to be stoned or crucified - apparently so according to Sharia.

This is a very serious issue and needs to be made crystal clear to muslims that they have to make a decision on whether they really can fit into a non-muslim country. Bearing in mind also that Sharia allows, in fact instructs them to lie to non-muslims in order to protect themselves and Islam. Can they actually be trusted when their religion teaches this to them? - people do need to fully understand the real and huge implications of Sharia and not think of it as some little book of laws affecting only islamic women wanting a divorce.

It was an unsettling thing to read about the arms in the French mosques, how many UK mosques are the same ?- we actually don't know, but as a member of the unarmed public, I am not happy and feel vulnerable. I am not interested in anything some softie warbles about islam loving everyone - sure in a barbaric way perhaps if one doesn't do as one is ordered. sharia and islamic society doesn't know or accept those values which are Christian.

Here is the issue, christian values leave us vulnerable to predatory religions when one thinks about the ethos of forgiving and turning the other cheek to your enemy - Islam's agenda isn't just about enemies though, its about complete capitulation of our beliefs, values, freedoms and a good jump backwards with street shows of barbaric torture and murder. Christian principles do not protect us against this religions suicide bomber and jihadists. We have had hopefully the maximum dosage of soft-sell by the female sad sacks who find their way onto our tvs etc and the arms in the Paris mosques should be telling us what's next on islam's agenda for our country. The French are apparently thinking of closing well over 100 of these terrorist institutions. Their incumbents clearly have no respect for the kindness and accommodations given to them by the French people - which should say it all to us.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

You came from one of the roughest parts of London you said.
You didn't mention whether it was primarily Muslim or considered a no-go zone?

a reply to: flammadraco

So people handing out fliers and being confrontational equates to a no go zone? Hopefully that will be the closest any of us actually get to a no go zone in this country. Frankly, i think people in parts of Venezuela, Mexico, Honduras, most of the Middle East or North Africa (as just a few examples) would happily swap our "no-go" zones for their own.

We had no go zones in Leeds years ago. Absolutely nothing to do Islam and everything to do with luring Police out of their cars so someone else could pinch them.


As to the thread itself, a couple of officers agreeing doesn't make a story correct, even while i concede that it does make it a topic worthy of discussion. Any group of people will invariably collectively have a wide range of views.

My own view is that the whole Muslim topic is now getting completely out of hand. In any section of any society there will be those that disagree with the majority. Those that possess extreme views (from whichever end of the spectrum). It is frankly a nonsense to write off a whole section of the planet based on the actions of a few.

a reply to: Flavian

So people handing out fliers and being confrontational equates to a no go zone

Have another read of my posts in this thread, mainly the response to Charlie where I state I was responding to the point about the Islamisation of our capital city. I concurred with Charlie that I know of no "No go Zones" in London for the police.

Frankly, i think people in parts of Venezuela, Mexico, Honduras, most of the Middle East or North Africa (as just a few examples) would happily swap our "no-go" zones for their own.

But we're not talking about those countries in this thread, we are discussing Trump's views and what he said about London!

It is frankly a nonsense to write off a whole section of the planet based on the actions of a few.

I agree and if you look at my past posts you will find that I defend Muslim people and I have created threads about why "Christians" don't deal with their own "fundamental Preachers" especially in the US and yet expect over a Billion Muslims in the World to do just that!

a reply to: SkepticOverlord


i reckon he might just be president... it would be interesting, to say the least... and scary too!

Most people in the uk live peacefully side by side like any country there will always be problems, but on the whole the uk is a peaceful place where violence is rare on the whole and carried out by all different groups in society certainly not restricted to Muslim areas of Britain. The only time I've been subject to violence was as a student in Leeds, by a group of drunk white lads. That's it in 36 years