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Why I think Trump is wrong

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posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 05:59 PM
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I know there are tons of threads already regarding Donald Trump's recent statements regarding banning Muslims from traveling to the US. I realize there are already a lot of arguments on how this is discriminatory or how this could be a slippery slope for expulsion or internment of Muslims already living in the United States of America. However, I want to look at the issue from Trump's perspective and give my take as to why even if one were to agree with his premise, he's still wrong.

Apparently, Trump thinks that by banning Muslims from entering the country, the US can stop terrorists from entering. This ignores two important facts:

1). There are potential terrorists already living in the US. Would he suggest removing law-abiding citizens who are Muslim to something like internment camps? Would he go so far as to strip them of citizenship (which if he tried would mean he did not read much into the First Amendment)? I find the slope created by his statements to be made of ice.

2). The terrorists could still get in. Here's the thing that Trump apparently missed when he was studying about Islam in his efforts to better understand Muslims - they are allowed by the Qur'an to pretend to not be Muslim for an assortment of reasons. For a jihadist (and I use this term in the context of terrorism, not in the quranic context), there would be no qualms about simply pretending to not be Muslim.

The only thing Trump has done is give a leg up to the Democrats and I'm afraid that if Sanders were elected, we'll be looking to the Obama presidency as a bastion of right-wing conservatism (okay, maybe not that bad).




posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 06:02 PM
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a reply to: truthseeker1110

The only thing worst than Obama would be Hillary. Trump is an idiot and people will finally say ah hell no, we can not have that in the White House, but as I said this election all sticker bumpers should read "Anyone But Hillary"



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 06:05 PM
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a reply to: truthseeker1110

I am just speculating here, but I think what is more plausible would be to just temporarily halt immigration from majority Muslim countries.

I don't think he is saying this is going to stop terrorists already here, or that we should get rid of all Muslims. It appears to me and surprisingly Rupert Murdoch, that a temporary halt on bringing in refugees/immigration in general might be a good thing...for a number of reasons.

For one, it would force congress to finally act on immigration and compromise on a solution. It would also allow everyone to get on board and agree to realistic terms for vetting Muslim refugees.

Honestly, this might be the only way to actually fix real problems that congress never seems to want to fix.



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 06:17 PM
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Apparently the Dems are running scared. Hilary is a joke, Bernie has no chance and the rest are just.....well.
This is just one of many Anti Trump threads I've seen posted today and it looks like he's making the competition very nervous. I personally don't want him for President. Hell, I don't think there are any good choices this time around, but I do like it that he's dragging things out in the open, instead of just trying to misdirect and/or gloss over them. You may not like what he says or how he says it, but at least he's talking about our problems and not telling us everything is under control and it's gonna be fine.



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 06:33 PM
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a reply to: Anosognosia

I'd agree about temporarily halting immigration until that system is fixed. More to the point of terrorism, I think halting terrorist funding would go a long way.



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 06:35 PM
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originally posted by: truthseeker1110
I know there are tons of threads already regarding Donald Trump's recent statements regarding banning Muslims from traveling to the US. I realize there are already a lot of arguments on how this is discriminatory or how this could be a slippery slope for expulsion or internment of Muslims already living in the United States of America. However, I want to look at the issue from Trump's perspective and give my take as to why even if one were to agree with his premise, he's still wrong.

Apparently, Trump thinks that by banning Muslims from entering the country, the US can stop terrorists from entering. This ignores two important facts:

1). There are potential terrorists already living in the US. Would he suggest removing law-abiding citizens who are Muslim to something like internment camps? Would he go so far as to strip them of citizenship (which if he tried would mean he did not read much into the First Amendment)? I find the slope created by his statements to be made of ice.

2). The terrorists could still get in. Here's the thing that Trump apparently missed when he was studying about Islam in his efforts to better understand Muslims - they are allowed by the Qur'an to pretend to not be Muslim for an assortment of reasons. For a jihadist (and I use this term in the context of terrorism, not in the quranic context), there would be no qualms about simply pretending to not be Muslim.

The only thing Trump has done is give a leg up to the Democrats and I'm afraid that if Sanders were elected, we'll be looking to the Obama presidency as a bastion of right-wing conservatism (okay, maybe not that bad).


I can't really say Trump is right on this but your logic isn't, from what I can see.

Yes, there are terrorist already here. So somehow that justifies allowing even more to enter? Sorry, the short answer is no.

Yes, they still can enter the U.S. illegally, but again, that somehow means take no action to reduce the avenue of immigration? Not sure on that one either.

What I suspect Trump is up to with this broad statement of banning all Muslims from entering the U.S. is create enough backlash to the concept that stopping refugee entry becomes the compromise that is acceptable....slick...I agree with that one.
edit on 8-12-2015 by nwtrucker because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 06:39 PM
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I have ask: What did the US do as it pertained to immigration from Germany, Italy and Japan during WWII? Did we just keep those lines open or did we sort of put the kibosh on that for the most part?



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 06:40 PM
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a reply to: truthseeker1110

1) He never said that so that is really just speculation on your part.

2) I've argument with what you said.

2A) My opinion that in some ways dovetails into what Trump said... and this is geared mostly towards those claiming "refugee status" but also many others (including but not limited to those of the Islamic faith)... Whenever people are trying to enter the United States from parts of the globe that are "hotbeds" of violence, there should be absolute scrutiny of the individuals and when in doubt (even a slight doubt) they should be refused access. As far as the "refugees" go, I find it simply insane that some people care claiming that these people are being "thoroughly vetted" since there is literally NO WAY to verify just about anything or any documentation coming from a war torn area. Why there hasn't been several coalition secured "safe zones" for refugees closer to their homes is mind boggling (and tends to push me down the ol' NWO road).



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 06:42 PM
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a reply to: DAVID64

The problem is that he's saying what the average working American wants to hear - and from the way he talks about these issues, he has the same level of understanding as the average working American. Too many illegals? Build a wall! Muslim terrorists commit mass murder in the US? Ban Muslims! Things are not that simple. I would like him to sound less like the citizenry and more like a politician who recognizes and understands the problem and has a plan.

Things like saying he'd make Mexico pay for the wall - really, how? Is he going to send in airstrikes over Mexico City if they don't comply and just forget that they are our third largest trading partner? The reason I don't like what he says is because it shows a clear lack of understanding as to how the world works. A seven year old could have come up with Trump's political platform.

That said, America seems to make a habit of surviving terrible presidencies, and I have every confidence we would still stay on top under Trump.



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 06:45 PM
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So, Trump is wrong?

Is anybody else right?

Hint: Hell, no. A nation of fools led by fools.
edit on 2015 12 08 by incoserv because: I could



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 06:46 PM
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a reply to: truthseeker1110

You seem to be repeating MSM talking points. How do you know what the average American knows or thinks about issues? Do you actually trust the media?

I think the MSM is our biggest enemy, so if they are all Trumps enemy, than Trump becomes my ally in that process.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Honestly that hurts me to say, because I really don't like Trump. Unfortunately we don't have any better options.



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 06:48 PM
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a reply to: eluryh22

I don't get why Iran isn't doing much to help regarding the refugees - I thought they were close allies with Syria.



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 06:50 PM
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a reply to: Anosognosia

Today when I read that "the White House" said that Trump wasn't fit to be president was the first time that I seriously thought about voting for him.

( But, then, maybe that's what they want. But I don't think they're that smart.)



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 07:01 PM
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a reply to: Anosognosia

Well, there's this:


Among all likely voters, 51% favor building a wall on the border; 37% disagree, and 12% are not sure. Eighty percent (80%) support the deportation of all illegal immigrants convicted of a felony; only 11% are opposed.


That comes from here.

Of course, the only way one could know with absolute certainty about what the average American thinks would be to give every single American a survey. Yet, we can still come to a reasonable idea by looking at various sources. According to a second source:


YouGov's latest research shows that most Americans (64%) support building a fence on the border - when that border is the one with Mexico. Only 27% of the American public oppose it. Even Democrats are evenly split (44% to 43%) while large majorities of independents (65%) and Republicans (87%) support a Mexican border fence.


That information can be found by clicking here.

In fact, according to YouGov, nearly half of Hispanics surveyed agree with building a wall.

These numbers all look rather "average" to me. The thing about the MSM isn't that it is providing false information all the time - it's that it is spinning the information to give a particularly biased view.



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 07:15 PM
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a reply to: incoserv

Haha, they really are nowhere near that smart.

If they were, they would realize they are only helping Trump's numbers by constantly attacking him.



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 07:19 PM
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a reply to: truthseeker1110

I am not insinuating that every single thing CNN/FOX/MSNBC say is a lie, but most of the time it is. Even when they aren't directly lying, they will deliberately leave out important details to keep people uninformed.

As far as polls go, well if you want to believe them you can. I tend to avoid using those as evidence of anything.



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 08:19 PM
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I can only judge by what I hear from day to day but in our neck of the woods, Trump is winning over Democrats just like Ronald Reagan did back in '80. It is because he's not talking like a politician but someone who wants to get the job done, not let things drag on until we're done for.
I can't even begin to count the number of Democrats I've heard make this statement or something similar: I'm a registered Democrat but if the Republicans will nominate Trump I'll vote for him. It seems that is because the Democrats have left the average American in the dust thinking that passage of Obamacare was all that was needed to show the people that Democrats really care! They've lost sight of the fact that the economy is, to most people, far more important that the issues Democrats are trying to push. They see Trump as a fellow who has actually done something with his life up to this point, knows how negotiate and knows how to turn a million dollars into a billion dollars. You don't do that by being stupid and all the other characteristics the spin doctors throw out there.
The Republicans are upset with him because they don't have the spine to say the things he says. They're also upset that he might "cut line" in the presidential race rather than waiting for "his turn."

Those are my observations as an independent libertarian.



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 09:20 PM
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originally posted by: diggindirt
I can only judge by what I hear from day to day but in our neck of the woods, Trump is winning over Democrats just like Ronald Reagan did back in '80. It is because he's not talking like a politician but someone who wants to get the job done, not let things drag on until we're done for.
I can't even begin to count the number of Democrats I've heard make this statement or something similar: I'm a registered Democrat but if the Republicans will nominate Trump I'll vote for him. It seems that is because the Democrats have left the average American in the dust thinking that passage of Obamacare was all that was needed to show the people that Democrats really care! They've lost sight of the fact that the economy is, to most people, far more important that the issues Democrats are trying to push. They see Trump as a fellow who has actually done something with his life up to this point, knows how negotiate and knows how to turn a million dollars into a billion dollars. You don't do that by being stupid and all the other characteristics the spin doctors throw out there.
The Republicans are upset with him because they don't have the spine to say the things he says. They're also upset that he might "cut line" in the presidential race rather than waiting for "his turn."

Those are my observations as an independent libertarian.


Exact same experience here, and the same thing I have heard from everyone I talk to.

The saddest part is that just like myself, most people say they don't like Trump, but feel forced to vote for him.

That is where we are at in the US. Candidates so corrupted and evil that we will take a narcissistic billionaire reality show star over everybody else....



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 10:21 PM
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a reply to: Anosognosia
I think the Democrats saw what happened in Kentucky last month and got a reality check.
When eastern Kentucky votes for a Tea Party Republican you know the times are a changin'!


While the elephant party hacks express support for one mainstream candidate or the other and sneer at Trump, the average Joe is so fed up with RINOs that they're eager to vote for a guy who is plain-spoken. He's the polar opposite of Ronald Reagan but such a refreshing change. They think he's right because he's offering common sense, hard-to-hear truths and tendering the very solutions they've discussed for eons.

The most striking thing I see is the way he has united the average voter. Just like Reagan.
Democrats were so mad with Carter and the party that they crossed over and voted for Reagan in droves.
Today those people are angry with Obama and the party that put him in office and they're looking for anything that isn't from that bunch. (The major difference is that while people didn't like Jimmy Carter and his policies, they didn't lose respect for him the way people have lost respect for Obama.)

As one fellow told me recently, "Neither party has anyone to offer because they are compromised by money and blackmail. Somehow, maybe even on an unconscious level, people know this. Trump is seen as the only one who isn't and can't be bought. He is offering them a new way and pointing out just how badly the old way has failed."



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 10:40 PM
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a reply to: nwtrucker




Yes, there are terrorist already here. So somehow that justifies allowing even more to enter? Sorry, the short answer is no.

Yes, they still can enter the U.S. illegally, but again, that somehow means take no action to reduce the avenue of immigration? Not sure on that one either.


I wouldn't advocate taking no action - I'd advocate not wasting resources on something that is impossible to carry out - at least overtly. Even if the US wants to make a policy of restricting Muslims from coming into the nation - announcing that plan publicly is fool-hardy and dooms any such plan to failure. Perhaps limit Muslim immigration under the guise of overall limitations on immigration - but don't announce it as the plan.

I'd also think it would be productive to start seeing where known terrorist-funding nations, such as Saudi Arabia, are channeling their money. Stopping just the refugees will not stop terrorists from getting in.



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