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A Different Point of View

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posted on Jan, 5 2005 @ 06:55 PM
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I have noticed since signing on to this forum last year, that the tactics of those who would detract from or vilify Freemasonry never change. The anti-Masons seem to come in cycles, and they seem to all be relying on the same sources for their information. This is not to say that they intentionally come to these boards to slander or lie (although sometimes this is certainly the case), but are genuinely trying to discern for themselves if what they have read elsewhere is indeed true. I was the same way, I read a lot of anti-Masonic propaganda. I was sure that they were evil and I wanted to see how deep the rabbit hole went. In my search for information I (thankfully) landed here, in the midst of several gentlemen who have offered nothing but courteous and helpful comments and answers to my queries. It is in no small part because of them that I now see Freemasonry in the light, as it should be seen. This isn’t a “Pat on the back” or anything, my point is this: I have recently been seeing on this board, certain people who have accused the Masons here of attacking so-and-so, and giving misinformation in an attempt to “keep their oath” or “hide some grand secret” or some such nonsense.

To those individuals I say this: You reap what you sow. Deal with it. There is a big difference between asking an honest question for the purpose of gaining knowledge and insinuating your preconceived conclusions in question form. If you come here to instigate and be foolish, then don’t be surprised when you are made a fool of.

Now then, I would like now to present to you all a quote, directly from the book “Morals and Dogma” of which I have recently obtained a copy. I typed these words myself directly from the book, so rest assured these are the exact words. My point in doing this is to cast a different light on this particular excerpt. I have often in my reading seen this quote used to try to make the point that Freemasonry is indeed nefarious in nature, and that only the “higher level” Masons know the true secrets, and that the “lower level” Masons are intentionally given the “wrong” interpretation of the symbols, because only the “high level” Masons are trusted with the “secret” (for example the supposed “Luciferian Doctrine”).



excerpt from “Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry” p.819 (Knight Kadosh) by Albert Pike

The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. Their true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry. The whole body of the of the Royal and Sacerdotal Art was hidden so carefully, centuries since, in the High Degrees, as that it is even yet impossible to solve many of the enigmas which they contain. It is well enough for the mass of those called Masons, to imagine that all is contained in the Blue Degrees; and whoso attempts to undeceive them will labor in vain, and without true reward violate his obligations as an Adept. Masonry is the veritable Sphinx, buried to the head in the sand heaped round it by the ages.



OK. There it is, straight from the horse’s mouth, so to speak.

What we have to remember (keep in mind folks, I have not studied this book intensely, I have barely begun to read it in it’s entirety) is that throughout Masonry there are tons of symbols, and as we know, symbols can have different meanings given different applications.

Pike indeed says here that the Initiate will be “intentionally misled by false interpretations”. OK, so what does this say? It says, literally, that the symbol(s) will be presented to the Initiate, and that he will receive a false explanation of it’s (their) meaning(s). Black and white, right there, no denying it. However, I refuse to believe that this is a malicious act to deceive the Initiate. Now, these are all my personal opinions and thoughts on the matter, and I will concede that my studies have only just begun.

Now let’s look at this misleading a little closer. Why would the initiate be misled? What is the purpose? Is it to confuse the candidate? I don’t think so. Is it to protect some great secret? I doubt it. A more reasonable possibility in my mind is this: You must learn to crawl before you can walk. For example, in school, be it elementary, high school, or college, there is a set curriculum that is followed each year. You are taught certain basic aspects of varying subjects until you grasp and understand them. Only when a student understands the lesson at hand is he ready to move on to the next phase in his instruction. Pike does indeed say that the Initiate will be misled. He does NOT say that these explanations (false interpretations) the Initiate is given in Blue Lodge have no meaning or purpose.

Perhaps the giving of this false interpretation is not in order to hide the meaning of a particular symbol. Perhaps it is to teach the initiate a basic lesson using a symbol that will be elaborated on later, so that the Initiate does not cloud his mind, or detract from the lesson at hand by trying to ponder the more profound meaning of the symbol. Makes sense, no?

Pike goes on to say that “Their true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry.”

OK, so what is an Adept?


from www.dictionary.com
a·dept
adj.
Very skilled. See Synonyms at proficient.

n.
A highly skilled person; an expert.

[Latin adeptus, past participle of adip sc , to attain : ad-, ad- + ap sc , to grasp.]


Hmmm… An expert. How does one become an expert? Study, of course. Now, I think what Pike is getting at here is this. Masonry is made up of many, many, many different types of men, from all walks of life. Almost every Race, religion, and occupation is represented within the ranks of Masonry. Now only a fool would believe that every one of those men have the intellectual ability to understand the complex ideas and philosophies that Masonry teaches. I submit that the “Adepts, the Princes of Masonry” are those individuals who have the capacity and the desire to seek out that which has been so carefully hidden. I say that the false interpretation is given to the Candidate so that those who would accept the generic explanation and do not wish to study the more esoteric philosophical and theosophical aspects will do so, not feeling as though their time in Masonry is ill spent, and those who wish to follow the path, study, and discover for themselves, the “enigmas” so carefully concealed over the ages will be compelled by their own eagerness for knowledge and understanding to do so.

This is not to say that the teachings of the Blue Lodge, or the “false interpretations” Pike speaks of are without merit of their own. I know from speaking (both face to face and via the internet) with many Masons that the Blue Lodge teachings have a very deep and meaningful message, and the lessons learned are indeed geared toward a man making himself better by looking inside himself, holding himself accountable for his own actions, striving to help others and to always be working to build himself into a better man. I see nothing evil or nefarious in this. If more people would live life by the kind of standards these men set, the world would most definitely be a better place. I think we can all agree on this.

Now let’s look at another part of this excerpt.



It is well enough for the mass of those called Masons, to imagine that all is contained in the Blue Degrees; and whoso attempts to undeceive them will labor in vain, and without true reward violate his obligations as an Adept.


Whoa, whoa, whoa! Hold on there a minute! It’s OK for the majority of the Masons to believe that Blue Lodge is the be all end all of Masonry? Well, in a sense, yes. If a man is becoming a Mason for fellowship, charity work, and to be a member of the good ol’ boys club, then that’s what he will do. I have been told repeatedly “You get out of Masonry what you put into it”. That statement in and of itself totally legitimizes (to me) what Pike is saying here. The “mass of those called Masons” will be happy with the explanations and teachings presented to them at Blue Lodge level.

Now is Pike saying that to try to reveal the higher meanings to someone is “laboring in vain”? I believe so. I believe that the word “reward” in the above phrase refers to the reward of knowing that you have followed this path of your own accord. Unless you are seeking the knowledge no one can teach you these things. And why would they if you showed no desire to learn? The person who would try to “undeceive them” (I think by “them” he means the “mass of those called Masons”) would indeed be without real reward, for the reward is learning it for yourself. Seeking knowledge is a journey. Often a long, arduous journey at that. The reward for this journey is, of course, the knowledge the seeker seeks. I think the point that Pike is making here is that a lot of Masons will be content with the teachings of the Blue Lodge, and that’s fine. Those individuals are getting out what they are putting in, no doubt.

The “Adept”, or expert, will have of his own accord sought to find this knowledge. I would imagine it is just as with Blue Lodge, “Knock and the door shall be opened to you.” I am going to make an educated guess that each Degree has within it an oath that binds the Initiate to never reveal what he has been taught to anyone who has not sought out the knowledge for himself, and been properly initiated. Obviously, then, to try to reveal this knowledge or “undeceive” those that have not shown the desire or initiative to study for themselves would be a violation of the oath that was taken. Also, as you can see if you take the previous ideas into consideration, it would be “labor in vain" (you cannot teach someone who does not want to learn), and “without true reward” (the true reward, as I stated earlier, is knowing that you have found a path and started a journey, and that journey has come to fruition).


Now, as I have stated before, these are my thoughts and opinions, and who knows? I could be completely off base and totally wrong about my interpretation of the words of Brother Pike. I would submit, however, that while my theories and ideas may be flawed, even downright wrong, I have seriously put some actual time and thought into them. Much more so, I think, than the folks that buy what the Mason haters of the world spoonfeed them through freemasonrywatch.org and other sites of their ilk. It’s a lot easier to go with the haters because hate comes so naturally to humans. We are, as a species, consumed by it. Everywhere you look there is evil in the world, so it’s easy to vilify an organization that has somewhat of a shroud of mystery to it. The dull mind will see words in a book and take them at face value, without question, without trying to discern what, if any, hidden meaning lies beneath them, just waiting to reveal itself to the man who would only look for it. The man who would be an “Adept or Prince of Masonry” is the man who would wade through the murky waters of symbolism and allegory to find the true meaning, and once found, understand it and put his newfound knowledge to work striving to make this world a better place for us all. It is my sincere hope that when my time comes, I will be counted as one of these men.

[edit on 1/5/05 by The Axeman]




posted on Jan, 5 2005 @ 07:09 PM
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Axeman,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall you put in a petition for Masonry or at least desired to?

If that's the case with info like what you've assembled above, I can't wait for your initiation!!!

I personally think your right on track with your logic.

All the best to you.

BTW: The first place a man knows he's a Mason is in his heart. Remember that.



posted on Jan, 5 2005 @ 07:18 PM
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Originally posted by cotwom
Axeman,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall you put in a petition for Masonry or at least desired to?

If that's the case with info like what you've assembled above, I can't wait for your initiation!!!

I personally think your right on track with your logic.

All the best to you.

BTW: The first place a man knows he's a Mason is in his heart. Remember that.


Yes, I put in a petition in my hometown area, but I wouldn't have been able to be initiated before I will be moving out of state. As soon as the waiting period is over in Texas though, you can bet the farm that I will be on the road to enlightenment.

And thank you, I can barely wait myself. I just keep telling myself anything worth having is worth waiting for.

Regards

[edit on 1/5/05 by The Axeman]



posted on Jan, 5 2005 @ 07:20 PM
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Originally posted by The Axeman
Pike indeed says here that the Initiate will be “intentionally misled by false interpretations”. OK, so what does this say? It says, literally, that the symbol(s) will be presented to the Initiate, and that he will receive a false explanation of it’s (their) meaning(s). Black and white, right there, no denying it. However, I refuse to believe that this is a malicious act to deceive the Initiate.


Indeed. And if Pike is correct in his above opinion (which he probably wasn't), the only thing he could be charged with is attempting to correct such a thing by informing the members of the Fraternity of it in his book.

To ascertain if Pike is correct or in error, let's consider his beliefs:

A. He believed that Masonic symbolism was Kabalistic.

B. He believed the original York Rite lecture writers intentionally appropriated to the symbols arbitrary meanings in order to conceal the true ones from the unworthy.

I agree with Pike on A, but on partially on B. Today, we know more about the original lecturers than Pike did. It is highly unlikely that Webb and Cross had any deep understanding of the Kabalah, if they had any knowledge of it at all. Therefore, instead of Webb and Cross intentionally misleading people, it seems more likely that they had no idea what the symbols meant thenselves, and simply invented superficial meanings.

I do not agree with Pike, however, in his assertion that the York Rite lectures are "wrong"; but only that they just scratch the surface, and that deeper meanings can indeed be found in the Kabalah.

Great post, Ax, you have my vote for Way Above.



posted on Jan, 5 2005 @ 08:20 PM
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Maybe, if there is misleading information given, part of the training is figuring out that it's misleading...

I'm not a mason, but I do know that you never know something as well as when you figure it out for yourself.



posted on Jan, 5 2005 @ 08:42 PM
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Axeman, I just finished your opening for "a diiferent point of view"

You have voted The Axeman for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.


I eagerly await comments on this topic of yours



posted on Jan, 5 2005 @ 09:21 PM
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Great post Axeman. I would also submit that as one travels the road the
perspective changes. It is my belief that while one travels the outward road
you also must make that journey within. So what a symbol means at the
1st degree may change as you both progress through the degrees and as
you grow personally. JMHO but i think the second factor is more affective than the first.



posted on Jan, 5 2005 @ 10:04 PM
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It's esay to see why the masons have such a united front with guys like axeman.
Maybe you should try taking his words at face value.
Maybe you shouldn't put your thoughts to his words.
You will enter this gang knowing what you are told is bullocks-
Something is wrong with yo



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 12:21 AM
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Originally posted by Ambient Sound
Maybe, if there is misleading information given, part of the training is figuring out that it's misleading...

I'm not a mason, but I do know that you never know something as well as when you figure it out for yourself.


That seemed to Pike's view, i.e., Nature and God will reveal the truth of all things to those worthy. I sort of agree with this too, but I still believe Pike is in error in his opinion of the York Rite lectures being intentionally misleading, assuming he wasn't joking.



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by GLeamer
It's esay to see why the masons have such a united front with guys like axeman.


Is it? What "united front"? The truth?


Maybe you should try taking his words at face value.


Maybe you should write some words that have any value.


Maybe you shouldn't put your thoughts to his words.


It's painfully obvious to everyone here that you put little or no thought into your own words. Perhaps you should remove the giant redwood from your own eye before trying to remove the splinter from mine.

What are you trying the Jedi mind trick?



You will enter this gang knowing what you are told is bullocks-
Something is wrong with yo


I will enter the fraternity with the understanding (something I am certain you lack in many areas) that all will be explained in due time. In order to fly, you must first learn to crawl and walk. One cannot fly into flying (I think that is Nietzsche).

The more rubbish you post here, the more you make an utter, ignorant ass of yourself.



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 01:58 PM
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i've been doing some reading into the masons becasue of the movie "national treasure." and from what i have read about the masons has been mostly anti-mason. most of it has said that the masons are the "stormtroopers" of the NWO, and that have been tied in the Jesuits,(who want to set up a wrold govrement of thier own with the pope as the leader of this world govrement.)
and they have been labeled anti-catholic. (which is hard to belive because they are supposedly working with rome to set up the NWO) and that they also worship satan. and from what i can see, all of these conflicting viewpoints some what disprove all of these theories. there is a F&AM lodge in my home town of which my great- uncle is a member of. I find it very hard to belive thats these older gentleman are part of some plot to over throw all of the world goverments when most of then have served their country in the armed service and put on a charity ox roast each year. one last questions: if the masons really control the world and their "great serect" is really true they why were some mason involed in creating the nation the world has ever known and why do they let websites like this continue to expoes the so-called truth?

[edit on 6-1-2005 by svcadet32]



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 02:22 PM
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nice to see you joining up axeman and hope everything goes well, remember it is not what masonry can do for you but what you can do for masonry!,regards david



posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by svcadet32
I find it very hard to belive thats these older gentleman are part of some plot to over throw all of the world goverments when most of then have served their country in the armed service and put on a charity ox roast each year. one last questions: if the masons really control the world and their "great serect" is really true they why were some mason involed in creating the nation the world has ever known and why do they let websites like this continue to expoes the so-called truth?



I think the majority of people who know what Masonry is hold the fraternity in high regard. Alot of people are completely oblivious to the existence of Freemasonry. Usually when I say something about Masonry my comments are met with blank stares or something like "You've got a good job! What in the world would you want to go back to working construction?!?!". I think on the internet, the reason you have all this anti-Masonic propaganda is, obviously, that anyone with a few bucks and a PC can set up a website, and it is an evcellent way to make your ideas readily available to the public at large.

On top of that, on the internet, you don't have to look a man in the eye when you call him a satanic, evil, double talking liar. If the average anti-Mason were face to face with a Mason, I don't think half of them would have the testicular fortitude to say the kinds of things said on this board to the various gentlemen who valiantly and admirably defend their craft.

The Masons historically have been pretty quiet, doing their thing and helping their communities without making a spectacle. They don't seem to want to make it a big deal. Generosity and Charity are virtues that the Mason embraces by default, simply on principle. You don't give to charity or help people because you want praise or recognition. To me, that's selfish, and in a way, defeats the purpose. Anyway, with the advancement of the internet, and with that, the onslaught of anti-Masonic hate sites, the brothers have started to stand up for themselves. Some say "It's about time!", still others say "We have traditionally ignored this kind of thing, and should continue to do so."

Either way, I know one thing from experience: The men who would be good Masons, when presented a site like www.freemasonrywatch.org for example, will look at that information, and say to himself, "That sounds pretty thin to me," and will continue to search for information, probably turning to the Masons themselves to see what they have to say. This benifits Masonry in my eyes, because those with hateful tendencies and a lack of understanding and tolerance for others (in other words, men who would not make good Masons) will accept the words of the hate sites at face value, and out of ignorance repeat parrot fashion the warcries of the anti-Mason. The good men would probably tend to look a little deeper and be open minded enough to distinguish the truth from the lies.


[edit on 1/7/05 by The Axeman]



posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 09:29 PM
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Either way, I know one thing from experience: The men who would be good Masons, when presented a site like www.freemasonrywatch.org for example, will look at that information, and say to himself, "That sounds pretty thin to me," and will continue to search for information, probably turning to the Masons themselves to see what they have to say.


*Golf Clap*

You my friend (or should I say brother-to-be
) are starting your journey the right way. If you don't know the truth in your heart, you will always be questioning "Is this true?" or "What have I gotten myself into?". Getting those things out of the way *before* will just allow you to enjoy the ride.



posted on Feb, 5 2005 @ 03:13 PM
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Quote: "Hmmm? An expert. How does one become an expert?
*STUDY* of course."

WOW - why didn't I think of that?!



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 01:34 AM
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Axeman, I have got to say that I'm impressed with your view. To find the meaning of the most important questions in your life and to find the right direction to begin any journey, you first have to look inside and ask your Higher Power for guidance and direction. Humility and Openmindedness. The True Teachers.

Many times I've begun journeys down different paths and have found that the most obviously poor decision has been the greatest teacher.

Let No Man ever discern or decide your path! Always seek your direction from your source and follow it until you have satisfied yourself that you have learned the leasons.

No-one is more qualified to decide your path and who your teachers are and will be than you are. Let the naysayers and inquisitors do their best to disuade you, but always stick to your guns. I have found that most of the negative and undermining talk I've encountered from folks comes from those individuals who are stuck in their own stuff. They live to manipulate and manuever others because of their inherent weaknesses and insecurities. Your moving forward and becoming more aware and eventually more enlightened threatens their ability to hold you down.

Rarely do these individuals even become aware of their true natures'. But as you become more Independant and Powerful the easier it is to see and smell these folks and you eventually will start making sport of spinning circles around them.

You are on the right path.


Not a Mason, By the Way. But Nevertheless a Seeker!



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 02:56 AM
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Axeman,

I was wondering if you wouldn't mind posting this on TLR (the original post, particular the 'misleading' part)... I'd like to get their word on it.

If not, may I post it on TLR?



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 09:27 AM
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Originally posted by DasBaldDog
Axeman,

I was wondering if you wouldn't mind posting this on TLR (the original post, particular the 'misleading' part)... I'd like to get their word on it.

If not, may I post it on TLR?



That's wierd, I had posted it on TLR but it seems to have disappeared. Odd. I can repost it if you'd like, but I don't think it made that much of an impression there. A few grumbles about "Pike doesn't speak for Freemasonry," and "You only scratched the surface," which is cool, because that's true. I'm learning that there are conservative and liberal Masons just like everything else. The guys at TLR though are good guys. I like reading their posts but I don't chime in as much because well, They know more about it than me, I can learn more if I keep my mouth shut sometimes hahaha.

I'll repost it and maybe if you add your comments I can get a good thread going, that's what I wanted to do anyways. I imagine TLR will be a much more active and informative place once I get into the tyled forums.



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 11:03 AM
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I say that the false interpretation is given to the Candidate so that those who would accept the generic explanation and do not wish to study the more esoteric philosophical and theosophical aspects will do so

I am inclined to believe that the "hidden" meanings are not necessarily exoteric
although that is a possibility, maybe even a probability. I am inclined to the
belief that many of the meanings of various things change as the seeker journeys with in. as the seeker changes so does the symbology, and sometimes time change in the person can be so profound as to effect the outward being.



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 02:14 PM
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Originally posted by stalkingwolf
I am inclined to believe that the "hidden" meanings are not necessarily exoteric
although that is a possibility, maybe even a probability. I am inclined to the
belief that many of the meanings of various things change as the seeker journeys with in. as the seeker changes so does the symbology, and sometimes time change in the person can be so profound as to effect the outward being.



Sounds good to me dude. I know alot of things have been changing for me over the last few months, some on the outside, more on the inside. The more I read and learn, the more variance I see between what always has been "real" to me and what has not, for the better, I mean. So your theory seems to be holding true, at least for me.



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