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Weaponry for Home Defence in the UK

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posted on Dec, 11 2015 @ 05:07 AM
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originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: EvillerBob

I dont think he behaved very well at the time so Police also added resisting arrest and breach of the peace to go with possession of an offensive weapon. PF dropped other charges and went with the offensive weapon. Classic tactic, after all once the Sheriff here's hidden Axe hes luck to get away with community service.

As to the proficiency of his solicitor, he was only a young guy at the time and not exactly well versed or indeed financially capable of affording a good brief. A lot of the better solicitors wont take on legal aid cases.

My point still stands through hiding weapons around the house with an intent to use them on would be intruders can and will get you prosecuted.


The whole invitation thing is relative to circumstances and as in all walks of life, some people are just twats at times, Police and friends, relatives and neighbours, ourselves. The best approach would have been to tug at his forelock and explain that he grabbed the axe when he heard someone kicking in the door, then hid it in the sofa when he realised it was just the Police. A Copper on a bad day, still might book you, but I wouldn't have thought it'd be much more than a caution for the axe if he'd played along. They're most of them, just people with a job to do, but I realise it depends on where you live a lot of the time and other factors that may remove your option to explain and subsequently complain. But, if you are or have committed a crime, then you have to recognise at some point you may have to explain yourself to "The Law" and how you are going to go about that. I know people that have been repeatedly busted, and just received a warning, not because they were obsequious, but because they simply cooperated and let the Police do what they had to do. It depends on what they "think" is going on and what gave them cause to think that. And, if you can't think on your feet, not kicking off and giving them an excuse/reason to charge you.


Also, the thing is to avoid pissing off people or otherwise drawing attention to yourself, such as allowing illegal odours to waft from your windows, because you're just as likely to attract people other than the Police, who might kick in your door at 3 am claiming to be the Police, and then you get the added bonus of the actual Police coming around to clear up the mess afterwards, as happened to an acquaintance of mine.





posted on Dec, 11 2015 @ 05:15 AM
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a reply to: KingDoey

I have a 42" Scottish broadsword, and I am well within my rights to use it for home defense if I fear for mine or my families life.

I could have a shotgun, or even a semi-auto M4 carbine (.22) rifle if I really wanted, but don't agree with firearms in homes.



posted on Dec, 11 2015 @ 05:26 AM
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a reply to: woogleuk

We don't need weapons TBH we have ladies like this.



Eeee reminds me of me youth
.



posted on Dec, 11 2015 @ 05:31 AM
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a reply to: Anaana

Still dont change the fact that carrying or having a weapon in your home or outside with the express purpose of self defense against other people can and will get you arrested and, as you have said, land you in court. Combine this with our zero tolerance policy regarding knife crime and sometimes even having an explanation will not prevent you receiving a criminal record and possible gaol time.

Obviously invitation is relative to circumstances and its definitely a good idea behave in an orderly fashion when dealing with the authorities, to be honest behaving in an orderly fashion or appropriate manner is pretty much a requisite all the time and with most people.



posted on Dec, 11 2015 @ 05:38 AM
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a reply to: andy06shake

As long as you can justify self defence you are okay. It must be deemed appropriate also.

"A defendant is entitled to use reasonable force to protect himself, others for whom he is responsible and his property. It must be reasonable."

It is common law.
en.wikipedia.org...

I have had to look into self defence for an incident at work where a SU really did a number on her support staff and the staff ended up hitting her to get away.
Police called investigation etc and it was deemed the staff acted the way they did because they feared serious injury.
No charges and the staff was told they did the right thing.



posted on Dec, 11 2015 @ 05:59 AM
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a reply to: EvillerBob

Yes i was in deed replying to you and not PocketRevolution, was typing/responding on my phone. my bad.


Thanks for the info, i found some of it rather enlightening.

End of the day through who in there right mind wants to find themselves up in front of judge having to explain themselves regarding having a weapon on there person or located in there home for self defense purposes when it can and still quite possibly will get you a criminal record based on the decision of said judge/or even jury? Certainly dont want to have to go to an appeal court to have the decision overturned.

I know a girl or to be more precise a Woman now that happened to have the misfortune of being in an abusive relationship where her partner repeatedly beat her, and which ended with him raping and torturing her. Long story short she started to carry a knife on her person and in her car by way of attempting to protect herself from him after his release from jail(Done 4 years, bloody joke). Because our Police and authority's could not or would not help her(simply cannot be there all the time). She was searched by the Police after her rapist partner informed on her after she threatened him with the knife. She ended up in court having to explain her situation and did indeed still receive a criminal record simply because when she was caught with the knife her abusive ex partner was nowhere to be seen.

Our laws are a joke with regards to self defense if you ask me. We are expected to place our faith and safety in a Police force that is nether capable or willing to protect our public. And which will just as lightly attempt to demonize you for attempting to protect yourself.
edit on 11-12-2015 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2015 @ 05:59 AM
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originally posted by: andy06shake
Combine this with our zero tolerance policy regarding knife crime and sometimes even having an explanation will not prevent you receiving a criminal record and possible gaol time.


We have a zero tolerance policy towards knife crime?

Do you mean crimes committed with knives, or crimes around possessing knives? Because, again, despite what the police say, it's entirely possible to walk around with a knife without committing a crime, it all comes down to the circumstances.

I've carried a knife with me since I was about 6 or 7; the only time it stays at home is when I'm visiting a secure facility (ie psychiatric hospitals/prisons) or going to court. Perfectly legal.

Mind you, I've don't carry it for self defence, I carry it because it's useful. I was brought up to treat it as a tool not a weapon.



posted on Dec, 11 2015 @ 06:04 AM
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a reply to: EvillerBob

I think the size of the knife is a defining factor as to its legality. Craft and Stanley type blades aside 1" being the legal limit. Do you walk around a built up urban area with said knife? Because if you are ever stopped and searched for what ever reason by our Police you may just find yourself having to answer for it in court. And should you get an overzealous judge possibly a criminal record.
edit on 11-12-2015 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2015 @ 06:08 AM
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originally posted by: andy06shake

End of the day through who in there right mind wants to find themselves up in front of judge having to explain themselves regarding having a weapon on there person or located in there home for self defense purposes when it can and still quite possibly will get you a criminal record based on the decision of said judge/or even jury? Certainly dont want to have to go to an appeal court to have the decision overturned.


You might find it interesting to note that the key case involved the Magistrates agreeing with the defendant. It was the prosecution who appealed. The appeal court agreed that the Magistrates had made the correct decision.

I'm a big believer in advising people to not rock the boat if there's no need to rock it. In fact, I'm not seeking to advise anyone here at all, I'm just pointing out interesting bits of law for discussion. However, there's a difference in telling people not to take the axe outside, and telling them not to have the axe at home. The first is common sense. The second is allowing the police to browbeat you into accepting their version of a law that simply doesn't exist. Screw that. If I wasn't spending all my money on Christmas presents for the kids, I'd go out and buy a giant battleaxe to hang on the living room wall, just "because"!



posted on Dec, 11 2015 @ 06:16 AM
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a reply to: EvillerBob

There not saying you cant have an axe at home. They are however implying that using or storing said axe for self defense purposes is illegal. Which is why if you were to have an axe next to the front door or say the side of your bed Police can charge you with having an offensive weapon. Common sense and our current breed of officer of the law are hardly synonymous these days.



posted on Dec, 11 2015 @ 06:22 AM
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originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: EvillerBob

I think the size of the knife is a defining factor as to its legality. 1" being the legal limit. Do you walk around a built up urban area with said knife? Because if you are ever stopped and searched for what ever reason by our Police you may just find yourself having to answer for it in court. And should you get an overzealous judge possibly a criminal record.


Size is indeed the key: 3" or less cutting edge (no idea where you got 1" from?), folding, non-locking. This exempts it from the legislation relating to knives... unless you start to use it aggressively, in which case the law kicks in. There are other situations that allow for larger and fixed blades but, as I don't need anything larger or fixed for daily use and as I don't tend to go camping in the middle of the city, I don't intend to rely on them!

Logically, of course, this is exactly how the law should work - you're not being punished for having something, you're being punished for using it in a way that is inappropriate. I wish more laws worked this way.

Edited to add: Hah, using the symbol for "less than" made the rest of the post disappear! Apologies, it should have occurred to me that it would be treated as an open tag. Corrected now!
edit on Ev24FridayFridayAmerica/ChicagoFri, 11 Dec 2015 06:24:31 -06005582015b by EvillerBob because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2015 @ 06:38 AM
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originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: EvillerBob

There not saying you cant have an axe at home. They are however implying that using or storing said axe for self defense purposes is illegal. Which is why if you were to have an axe next to the front door or say the side of your bed Police can charge you with having an offensive weapon. Common sense and our current breed of officer of the law are hardly synonymous these days.


No they can't. If they try, they are arresting you for a crime that does not exist. The offensive weapon/bladed article laws specifically apply to public places.

Your house does not constitute a public place.

The only time that the location of the axe will have any bearing is if you actually have to use it. In that case, the prosecution will point to it being kept "by the door" or where ever as a clear indication that you intended to use it as a weapon. Even that is not actually illegal if the use of it was appropriate in the circumstances.

Edited to add: going back to the guy with the axe - was there any chance that neighbours had reported seeing him with it outside? It would explain how he got an OffWeap conviction for an axe found in his own house.
edit on Ev42FridayFridayAmerica/ChicagoFri, 11 Dec 2015 06:42:09 -06005702015b by EvillerBob because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2015 @ 06:39 AM
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a reply to: EvillerBob

Lets just say that carrying anything other than a small key chain type knife with a 3" blade is going to raise sufficient suspicion and possibly land you in court depending on circumstance and/or the current mood any Police who may stop you and search happens to be in that day. Attitude also being a contributing factor. And thank you for the correction, 3" does seem to be the acceptable limit. As to having an axe anywhere or even on your person, short of you cutting down trees/splitting wood in the back garden or something similar. Its always going to raise peoples heads, Police included, such is the world in which we live these days.


edit on 11-12-2015 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2015 @ 06:50 AM
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originally posted by: andy06shake

Its always going to raise peoples heads, Police included, such is the world in which we live these days.



And this is exactly what I try to resist. Why train people to roll over and give up rights? You're letting the Police create the law.

I'm not saying people should run out and push the limits, but I'd like people to at least remember that laws come from statutes and common law, not the whims of the police officer on duty.



posted on Dec, 11 2015 @ 06:55 AM
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a reply to: EvillerBob

"going back to the guy with the axe - was there any chance that neighbors had reported seeing him with it outside? It would explain how he got an OffWeap conviction for an axe found in his own house."

Dont think so. I think the fact that there was a report by neighbors regarding a noise disturbance, and the guys attitude towards them when they arrived several hours later did not help matters. Then i imagine the fact that could not provide sufficient reason for having said axe down the side of a couch did not help matters.

To be honest it was one of my brothers pals and it was years ago so, i dont really know the ins and out of the full situation. Just that Police forced there way into his home, questioned him as to a previous noise report by neighbors, apparently seen the axe and proceed to charge the fellow with having an axe. Considering the situation had resolved itself and there was no apparent crimes being committed while the Police were in attendance, until the Police escalated the situation, personalty i think it was a travesty of justice.

Different story if he was wielding the axe or even threatening to do just that, but apparently that was not the case. Nor even claimed so by the Police.

Edit: Think the full charges were possession of an offensive weapon, breach of the peace and resisting arrest. Dropped to just possession of an offensive weapon.
edit on 11-12-2015 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2015 @ 06:59 AM
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best you can do is sleep with a kitchen knife close by

The UK law is a bit of a joke when it comes to self defence because it basically says you cannot have any weapon in your possession for the purpose of self defence.

Say you own a shot gun, legally it has to be locked away, hardly useful during a home invasion. Even something like a simple Kubaton key ring can get you nicked even if you use it for self defence.

Its all backwards.

I would say in your situation the best you can go for is a robust home security system, strong windows strong doors with strong locks, home CCTV, other security measures. Then just hope the man with the knife doesn't get in because if he does you have to rely on PC bloop turning up with his health and safety forms before he can help you out.
edit on 11-12-2015 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2015 @ 07:03 AM
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a reply to: EvillerBob

I dont agree with the overtly totalitarian PC correct bull crap laws, just pointing out how they can play out.

Should probably add, that generally, i also dont agree with people being able to carry weapons outside. Neds with big Rambo or Kitchen knifes is never a good idea. Which is apparently the reason we have such laws in place. I live in Glasgow a city that has and still does have a problem regarding knife crime.

As to home protecting with a weapon, just dont store them in a silly or inappropriate place, and dont get caught would be my thinking. But not our Laws.
edit on 11-12-2015 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2015 @ 07:15 AM
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originally posted by: andy06shake
I live in Glasgow a city that has and still does have a problem regarding knife crime.


Ah, yes, I forgot that you mentioned the different jurisdiction.

This is the bit of law I believe would apply. Scroll down to s 47(4) and you'll understand the issue I'm having with it!

s 47 Criminal Law (Consolidation) (Scotland) Act 1995



posted on Dec, 11 2015 @ 07:19 AM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
The UK law is a bit of a joke when it comes to self defence because it basically says you cannot have any weapon in your possession for the purpose of self defence.


And that's one of the things I'm trying to address in this thread. The Police say one thing, but the law (and the courts) actually say something else.

Technicalities? Perhaps. That doesn't make them less important to understand.



posted on Dec, 11 2015 @ 07:27 AM
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originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: EvillerBob

I think the size of the knife is a defining factor as to its legality. Craft and Stanley type blades aside 1" being the legal limit. Do you walk around a built up urban area with said knife? Because if you are ever stopped and searched for what ever reason by our Police you may just find yourself having to answer for it in court. And should you get an overzealous judge possibly a criminal record.


I had a machette strapped to my backpack at a train station and two cops stopped me and the younger one was well up for nicking me but the older cop just asked what it was for I told him wild camping in woods and he said it was okay.
He did tell me also because it was in full view and I was not concealing it he took that into account.
The law does say you must have a valid reason to carry a big knife.




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