It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Poor crew coordination incidents on the rise

page: 1
5

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 10:01 AM
link   
The issue of crew coordination problems was brought to the forefront of airlines attention in a stunning way on March 27, 1977 when a KLM 747 and a Pan Am 747 slammed into each other on the Tenerife runway. One of the causes was the lack of the KLM crew to speak up against the captain's decision to takeoff, largely due to him being the airline training captain.

Over the years, there have been other accidents and incidents revolving around crew coordination, one of the most visible being the Asiana 777 crash in San Fransisco, but the overall trend has been improving coordination.

Now we're seeing a reversal of that trend. There have been a number of incidents and accidents in recent months that were a direct result of poor crew coordination.

A Qatar 777-300ER suffered significant damage to the aft fuselage during a takeoff overrun in Miami, and continued on to Doha.

Now there are two more reports of incidents resulting in significant damage to the aircraft.

US Airways 1702 was taxiing for departure in Philadelphia, in March 2014, when the captain noticed the wrong runway had been entered for the takeoff calculations. When the correct runway was put in, not all the information was entered, resulting in a throttle not set warning on takeoff. When the first officer called out the warning, the captain countered that they were. The aircraft reached 160 knots and rotated, when the captain decided it wasn't safe, and performed a high speed abort.

The aircraft slammed down on its nose gear, resulting in the gear collapsing. The aircraft skidded to a stop on the runway.

www.flightglobal.com...

The other was a Carpatair ATR attempting to land in Rome. In this case, the first officer had approximately 15 hours on type, while the captain had 9600 hours. The captain, who was flying was convinced he could land with no problem.

The crew was notified of crosswinds gusting to 37 knots, which exceeds limits on the aircraft. The crew flew the approach at 130 knots, opposed to the normal 118 knots. The aircraft hit at 2.6 degrees nose down, at which point the first officer pulled back, while the captain pushed forward on the controls.

The aircraft bounced, and ended up slamming into the bottom of the fuselage and spinning 180 degrees. Skidding off the runway, into the grass.

www.flightglobal.com...

This is something that the airlines have to get under control fast. These accidents are only a fraction of the incidents caused by this, most fortunately, not resulting in no injuries or damage to the aircraft, but it's only a matter of time before we see another Tenerife if they don't get it under control.
edit on 1/12/2016 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 12:27 PM
link   
a reply to: Zaphod58

Is this a case of changing or adjusting the flight crew command structure, better check lists or taking more automation and taking the human factor out of it?



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 12:30 PM
link   
a reply to: Sammamishman

Automation is definitely playing a role, The bigger problem seems to be coming back to the captain is always right attitude. Yay caused a number of crashes in the 70s and into the 80s before they convinced other crew members to speak up.



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 03:02 PM
link   
a reply to: Zaphod58

Just wow at the US Air incident. What an awful Captain. That's basic training material. If there's anything potentiallly wrong that gets pointed out on the roll, abort if you're under V1. If you're rotating you're presumably past V1, so continue. Even if you're not sure about the TOGA setting just firewall it.

That one seems like an extreme outlier in the US. Probably not other countries, but every US airline hammers that stuff home in the sim and again on the line. That one's squarely on the Captain there.
edit on 8-12-2015 by justwanttofly because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 03:05 PM
link   
a reply to: justwanttofly

Yeah, and the airline reinforced several times you can take off in that configuration, simply set power to TOGA and continue doing calls as briefed before departure.



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 09:12 PM
link   
And now we have more information on the AirAsia crash that shows crew coordination was a factor in that crash too.

airwaysnews.com...



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 09:44 PM
link   
I was appauled at the LAX too low...too slow accident and then the 16 year olds .....you know

that aborted takeoff spun 180 at speed I suppose...a Nightmare

If you watch a lot of accidents on video ...like is possible these days, it makes one more capable of spotting the wrong thing to do....flying isn't inherently safe....but I love everything about it.

edit on 8-12-2015 by GBP/JPY because: our new King.....He comes right after a nicely done fake one


edit....remember my complaining the client pilots at Paine Field would never even come close to the Boeing pilots at getting altitude .....

they wouldn't power up as much on take off....all except maybe one in one hundred.....watching the new owners take the 777 back home.....was truly cardiac....shouldn't someone have addressed that? and then they would do a wing dip.......aarrrggghhggh
edit on 8-12-2015 by GBP/JPY because: our new King.....He comes right after a nicely done fake one

edit on 8-12-2015 by GBP/JPY because: last minute thought there....yezz



posted on Dec, 10 2015 @ 04:50 AM
link   
Easy Jet flew over a ridge at fairly low altitude during an approach screw up.

www.flightglobal.com...



posted on Jan, 12 2016 @ 12:40 PM
link   
a reply to: Zaphod58

Not sure how much I buy that. Both of those examples they used in that article are pretty invalid case studies. Asian pilots are notorious for lacking hand flying skills, but the FAA does not really have any control over another country's/airline's safety standards and practices. And the Colgan crash can be directly contributed to fatigue- anyone can tell you the right thing to do in that situation, it doesn't display an atrophy of stick skills.

Could you make the argument that the stick skills of a lot of pilots are atrophying in the name of systems management? Yeah, you probably could, depending on your perspective. But I'm not sure that blaming it on the FAA's inability to "ensure pilots are fully trained", when airline training programs must be approved by the FAA, is the right argument to make.



posted on Jan, 12 2016 @ 12:47 PM
link   
a reply to: justwanttofly

Yeah, but how often does the FAA do an honest to God audit of training, and actual check rides. I've seen how some inspectors and the airlines operate, and heard horror stories of others.

The FAA may write the training program, but if they don't follow through on checks, and ensure that the program is followed, it doesn't mean a damn thing.



posted on Jan, 12 2016 @ 08:11 PM
link   
a reply to: Zaphod58

True. It would be interesting to see if there's been any upward comments from the line check feds to see if they have been reporting any lack of confidence in stick and rudder skills within the last few years.



posted on Jan, 12 2016 @ 09:04 PM
link   
My dentist was telling me today that the mining industry in australia have been implementing automated driver-less trucks so they can profit by getting rid of drivers that get paid $100.000+ annually, So its only a matter of time before flight is also automated with pilots on the ground to take over when the automation fails. Open the bay doors HAL.







 
5

log in

join