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Note The Difference

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posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 09:36 AM
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WARNING FIRST VID IS VERY GRAPHIC

Man shot holding a razor surrounded by cops
USA


Man stabbed or slashed three people with a knife
In Terror attack, cops brought him down no one killed or shot
England.


Chicago knife wheeling teen shot within less than second
USA.


Crazy man repeatedly charging at cops with really big scary machete
everyone lived.

Is it in the training why deadly force is the default goto move for US cops.
edit on 8-12-2015 by Spider879 because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-12-2015 by Spider879 because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 09:38 AM
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a reply to: Spider879

Point taken....



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 09:39 AM
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So.......... don't have a knife out threatening or stabbing people and you should be fine.



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 09:42 AM
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a reply to: Spider879
killers should die. If you hold a weapon to an armed officer, then you die by stupidity. No mercy here. I dont think you should be shot in the back running away though, thats just cowardly.

That subway attacker should have been shot and killed.
edit on 8-12-2015 by AmericanRealist because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 09:46 AM
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originally posted by: jjkenobi
So.......... don't have a knife out threatening or stabbing people and you should be fine.


No, everyone should have knives. If everyone had a knife, no one with a knife would be able to stab anyone.

And the bigger the knife, the better too.



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 09:46 AM
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a reply to: chrismarco

The first one is insanely graphic-Warning-



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 09:48 AM
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originally posted by: AmericanRealist
a reply to: Spider879

well the difference is NDAA 2012 technically mobilized this country into a state of war by default. The media refuses to make the connection though, and the sudden increase in police shootings. If the entire Earth is a battle zone, that includes the streets of America.

You guys should have killed that attacker though. He was a maniac, and now you get to spend tax dollars feeding and housing a killer for the rest of his life.

I see the cops had no problem taking in the planned parenthood shooter. Should have shot him too. Say what you will, but if the perp is a killer, NDAA says our forces can kill him without due process. That includes the police in the streets.


Well, see, police are not judge, jury and executioner.

Should have just shot him? And then we should shoot pete the pick pocket, damn criminals, wasting tax payers hard earned money on things like prisons, and a system that is supposed to determine someone's guilt or innocence.

Waste of money and time... Just one in the skull, and everyone goes home happy.



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 09:49 AM
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a reply to: Spider879

Something tells me that if people would learn that once the police show up if they would put down their weapons, comply with the officers, and fight it in court and not on the street the incidence of police shooting would probably go way down.
edit on 8-12-2015 by James99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 09:49 AM
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originally posted by: jjkenobi
So.......... don't have a knife out threatening or stabbing people and you should be fine.


I get your point but if it was your son I would hope that you would expect the police to exhaust all options before killing somebody...if everybody had a taser and capsium I'm wondering how this would have panned out...even a flashing strobe for the teen could have been helpful to disorient him...



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 09:53 AM
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a reply to: laminatedsoul

knives are the reason we have guns. The world was a much more brutal place for innocent people before guns. They usually take the target down without much mess. Knives leave a whole lot more blood, require more strength to handle, and typically the bigger person or violent criminal will win over 90% of the time. Entrails are spilled, gurgling from throats slashed. I suppose an 85 year old grandmother should just be expected to stand up to a 300 pound six foot 30 year old thug with a 3 inch blade right?? As long as scary evil guns dont exist??

better the old lady just pass into the night anyways then the poor mentaly ill violent criminal right?? Or for that matter, a person who just finished killing three people in public, because the killers rights are more important??
edit on 8-12-2015 by AmericanRealist because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 09:53 AM
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originally posted by: chrismarco
a reply to: chrismarco

The first one is insanely graphic-Warning-

Ok I put up a bolded warning sign.



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 09:57 AM
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originally posted by: James99
a reply to: Spider879

Something tells me that if people would learn that once the police show up if they would put down their weapons, comply with the officers, and fight it in court and not on the street the incidence of police shooting would probably go way down.

True but, the same holds true for folks across the pond, we have similar laws the same language and values but so different at times.
edit on 8-12-2015 by Spider879 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 11:22 AM
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a reply to: chrismarco

"Insanely graphic?
He only shot him with a Taser. You can plainly see the wires.



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 11:29 AM
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originally posted by: DAVID64
a reply to: chrismarco

"Insanely graphic?
He only shot him with a Taser. You can plainly see the wires.

He was apparently shot and tased at the same time .



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 11:58 AM
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originally posted by: jjkenobi
So.......... don't have a knife out threatening or stabbing people and you should be fine.


I think saying "put up your dukes" should result in several rounds to the chest too. Menacing look? Should result in an immediate snapped neck. Accidental gang colors? Cops should rip out your intestines and hand them to you.

Constitutions are for sissies anyway. When are we going to man up and start being more like North Korea?



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 12:08 PM
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a reply to: Spider879

Is it hyperbole or just ignorance that makes you think that deadly force is the normal response for U.S. cops?

Plus, I know the outcome of the last video of the suspect (and it should be a murder charge against the officer[s]), but what about the first one?

What people don't understand is that a knife is more dangerous than a gun when it comes to physically trying to subdue someone who is obviously full of adrenaline and already shown to be belligerent by disregarding commands by people with guns trained on you to drop a weapon. A knife can cut and penetrate a million ways from Sunday, but a gun only causes damage (usually) if that little hole is pointing right at you when it's fired.

This reality creates a more dangerous situation for both the officers and the general public in the area. In all the cases you put forth, there is no telling what would have happened if the suspects in the US videos weren't fired upon, and the same with the UK examples. In each case, officers were using the best weapons at their disposal in order to subdue the threat. If (and I know that's the main point of difference, here) the UK cops had firearms, I'm guess that they'd use them, too.

But do note that a tazer was used in the initial video, but it seems that another cop felt the need (most likely unnecessarily) to use a firearm at the same time. But anyone trained in tactical self defense (and offense) would not that the first video--the guy with the razor knife--was only a lane's width away from the officers, and that's a very small distance from which to lunge and attack someone with deadly consequences. While the tazer most likely would have done the job, the officer who fired the bullets wasn't exactly in the wrong from a self-defense standpoint.

But I agree with jjkenobi's assessment:


originally posted by: jjkenobi
So.......... don't have a knife out threatening or stabbing people and you should be fine.


Personal responsibility on the part of the criminal has been ignored in your first video. I've already made my opinion of the second US video known.



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 12:12 PM
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originally posted by: dogstar23
I think saying "put up your dukes" should result in several rounds to the chest too. Menacing look? Should result in an immediate snapped neck. Accidental gang colors? Cops should rip out your intestines and hand them to you.

Constitutions are for sissies anyway. When are we going to man up and start being more like North Korea?


Spoken by someone truly ignorant to the laws of self-defense and how and why LEOs train the way I do.

But like I said in my first post in this thread, I think the Chicago incident was unnecessary and should result in a murder conviction. The first video was a clean shoot, even if they should have stuck with the tazer first, which probably would have worked. And remember, I'm speaking from a strictly legal standpoint, not from my emotions, which ask why did either of them have to die.

ETA: Assuming the guy in the first video died as well.
edit on 8-12-2015 by SlapMonkey because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 12:40 PM
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originally posted by: SlapMonkey

What people don't understand is that a knife is more dangerous than a gun when it comes to physically trying to subdue someone who is obviously full of adrenaline and already shown to be belligerent by disregarding commands by people with guns trained on you to drop a weapon. A knife can cut and penetrate a million ways from Sunday, but a gun only causes damage (usually) if that little hole is pointing right at you when it's fired.


What are you talking about man??? A gun only causes damage when the little hole is pointing at you??? Are you explaining this to children or something??? You know a knife only causes damage when the pointy side touches you too. You've got to be kidding me with that BS.

You act like this guy with a knife is a damn ninja and the officers surrounding him are teenage girls armed with squirt guns. Come on, you can't possibly expect anyone to take what you're saying serious.

If they think they might get cut, how about backing off a few feet first??? The dude isn't going anywhere. He's surrounded. Arrest him, disarm him, do like you're job says to do. They're cops not assassins.
edit on 8-12-2015 by mOjOm because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-12-2015 by mOjOm because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 12:50 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm

Do you think the cops are ninjas? Being in close quarters with a guy with a knife is the worst place to be.Not to mention at that range using a gun is tricky, at that kind of range you are more likely to shoot through someone into another person. Once a person go's out with a weapon and starts threatening people it doesn't matter what his family or friends think. They become a public menace and well being shot is on the table for the outcome.



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 01:41 PM
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originally posted by: mOjOm

What are you talking about man??? A gun only causes damage when the little hole is pointing at you??? Are you explaining this to children or something??? You know a knife only causes damage when the pointy side touches you too. You've got to be kidding me with that BS.


Case in point--ignorance. Do you train with knives? Do you train in knife defenses? Do you train with firearms? Do you train in firearm defenses?

I think I know the answer to that, and it makes the rest of your response irrelevant as it makes comments based on said ignorance.

But seriously, I'm interested to know if you do train or have ever trained with knives or guns before, because the way you talk, it seems as if you know very little but assume much.


You act like this guy with a knife is a damn ninja and the officers surrounding him are teenage girls armed with squirt guns. Come on, you can't possibly expect anyone to take what you're saying serious.


I don't care if anyone takes what I say seriously--how people view my comment does not negate its veracity. And in case you ever wonder, more often than not, the most dangerous individual with a knife is one who does not have any honed knife skills.


If they think they might get cut, how about backing off a few feet first??? The dude isn't going anywhere. He's surrounded. Arrest him, disarm him, do like you're job says to do. They're cops not assassins.


Review the video again--the officers did back up a few feet each time the suspect moved closer and closer toward them. But like I said, I would have preferred to see them let the tazer do its work and then arrest and disarm, if possible. But it didn't happen, and legally I'd bet money that the shooting was/is justified based on the suspect's own actions. You'll note that the tazer and firearm were discharge when he raised the knife in the direction of what looks to be the female officer...after giving him an abundance of time to put the weapon down AND while allowing him to continually advance upon them.

Like I said, at some point, the suspect has to have the appropriate personal responsibility placed on his own shoulders.
edit on 8-12-2015 by SlapMonkey because: (no reason given)



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