Baghdad Ankara ultimatum nearly up, Moscow to discuss Turkey military invasion at UNSC

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: MrSpad

As for forcing the Turks out, it simply can not be done if they do not want to leave.

Kind of like forcing the US out eh .Seems to be some big double standards happening when it comes to groups that can be divided along ethnic religious or sovereign lines . If the UN stands for United Nations I would think to eliminate or re-create a Nation could be problematic . It could be a very convenient tool as well . Imagine creating a Kurdistan or and a Sunnistan . Turkmenistan ,Talibanstan , or even a Texastan . Right now Turkey is not helping it's self and sooner or later this will be settled ,either by hook or by crook ..

The first goal at the UN would be a true unity Government but, the Shia in power backed by Iran would resist that of course. So that is not likely. Ad to to that the fact Iraq has not controlled the Northern parts of Iraq in a long time the Kurdish areas in particular have been basically independent since the early 1990s a post ISIS Iraq is just going to be more fighting. Turkey is just positioning itself for the inevitable.

Syria is much the same way. Unlikely to ever be one nation again. Even with Assad gone the Kurds are not likely to want any party of a new Syria and Assads supporters would likely be afraid of reprisals as he has used the minority group against the other. So they likely would want their own state. Others might as well.

This has been coming since these border were randomly drawn as the Brits and French left their colonies. The only thing has kept Iraq and Syria as single nations has been brutal dictators who were willing exterminate populations that even talked about leaving.

When divining a nation in the name of peace and trying to keep it together in long term conflict, the UN has gone with division. Eritrea from Ethiopia, South Sudan from Sudan, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Kosovo, Serbia from Yugoslavia.

Turkey is clearly going to back a new Kurdish state state and likely a Sunni one as well. And their is really nothing that can be done about it unless the Kurds and Sunnis want them to leave.

originally posted by: MrSpad
Turkey is just positioning itself for the inevitable.

Now, you're not being truthful ... you are much more informed than this.

The OBVIOUS part in it all, is that ISIS is a casus belli. It doesn't matter weather they are 100 thousand, or 30 thousand ... their position there is backed by someone. Now, NATO is saying Lybia is becoming stable ... with ISIS and Al Qaida in control. One no longer has to speculate, what role ISIS is playing.

IFF ISIS was ISIS, those mean looking, fear mongering, s.o.b.s we all "hear" them to be ... then the TURKS there would be dead. They're not stupid, ignorant morons ... they know very well, what the Turks are there to do. The fact, that the Turks are alive ... has little to do with Kurdish *fist rattling*, which will be your argument ... and, it's a null argument void of reality. ISIS, knowing fully their very existence is at stake ... *should* have taken them out, and acquired their equipment almost immediately as they entered.

There is a deal between the two ... and Turkey is not acting here, without NATO's backing.

therefore, ISIS is NATO's creation ... period. Any argument on the contrary, is just stupidity and you're not that stupid and don't insult our intelligence, with BS arguments.

This, is how confrontation with ISIS will occur ... when Assad is out of power, and NATO decides to "destroy ISIS".

There will be clashes with some "portions" of ISIS, but ISIS will be reduced to only a fraction of it's strength. The official explanation will be, that ISIS members defected prior to NATO arriving. This would also be described as a tactic by NATO, to reduce loss of life during any clashes with ISIS. ISIS will be defeated swiftly, and NATO will voice a plan to create a sunni iraq (according to original US plan), and will start "training" an Iraqi army (just like Turkey now). Nobody will realize, that the new Iraq sunni army, is merely ISIS haven taken their ski masks off. How sinister is that, really.

This is how it was planned to occur, Mr.Spad and don't insult our intelligence with any BS.

IFF ISIS was ISIS, they would basically go underground and become "assassins". Even if the ISIS squad, that is merely a few hundred yards away from the Turks, didn't trust itself to beat them ... they'd "disperse" and become mobile. That's how you fight a stationary army. And tell us, how "fears" the Turks are. Their Army is a joke. Yes, it's a BIG Army ... which makes it just a BIG joke. All their movements, weather with or without NATO backing ... shout "tactical failure". They're just lucky, nobody is there to take advantage of their errors. Which makes them "regionally" adept, or just everyone else int he area ... totally inept.

NO ARMY IN THE UNIVERSE, WOULD ALLOW AN ENEMY COMBATANT TO RESIDE A HUNDRED YARDS AWAY WITHOUT EVEN TRYING TO ATTACK THEM.

Ahhh ... but except ISIS, they obviously won't attack their "comrades" the Turkey's. Maybe the got the NATO memo, "No turkey this christmas".

a reply to: bjarneorn

ISIS is not attacking the Turks because, unlike the Iraqi and Syrian forces, the Turks are a well disciplined army.

originally posted by: bjarneorn

originally posted by: MrSpad
Turkey is just positioning itself for the inevitable.

Now, you're not being truthful ... you are much more informed than this.

The OBVIOUS part in it all, is that ISIS is a casus belli. It doesn't matter weather they are 100 thousand, or 30 thousand ... their position there is backed by someone. Now, NATO is saying Lybia is becoming stable ... with ISIS and Al Qaida in control. One no longer has to speculate, what role ISIS is playing.

IFF ISIS was ISIS, those mean looking, fear mongering, s.o.b.s we all "hear" them to be ... then the TURKS there would be dead. They're not stupid, ignorant morons ... they know very well, what the Turks are there to do. The fact, that the Turks are alive ... has little to do with Kurdish *fist rattling*, which will be your argument ... and, it's a null argument void of reality. ISIS, knowing fully their very existence is at stake ... *should* have taken them out, and acquired their equipment almost immediately as they entered.

There is a deal between the two ... and Turkey is not acting here, without NATO's backing.

therefore, ISIS is NATO's creation ... period. Any argument on the contrary, is just stupidity and you're not that stupid and don't insult our intelligence, with BS arguments.

This, is how confrontation with ISIS will occur ... when Assad is out of power, and NATO decides to "destroy ISIS".

There will be clashes with some "portions" of ISIS, but ISIS will be reduced to only a fraction of it's strength. The official explanation will be, that ISIS members defected prior to NATO arriving. This would also be described as a tactic by NATO, to reduce loss of life during any clashes with ISIS. ISIS will be defeated swiftly, and NATO will voice a plan to create a sunni iraq (according to original US plan), and will start "training" an Iraqi army (just like Turkey now). Nobody will realize, that the new Iraq sunni army, is merely ISIS haven taken their ski masks off. How sinister is that, really.

This is how it was planned to occur, Mr.Spad and don't insult our intelligence with any BS.

IFF ISIS was ISIS, they would basically go underground and become "assassins". Even if the ISIS squad, that is merely a few hundred yards away from the Turks, didn't trust itself to beat them ... they'd "disperse" and become mobile. That's how you fight a stationary army. And tell us, how "fears" the Turks are. Their Army is a joke. Yes, it's a BIG Army ... which makes it just a BIG joke. All their movements, weather with or without NATO backing ... shout "tactical failure". They're just lucky, nobody is there to take advantage of their errors. Which makes them "regionally" adept, or just everyone else int he area ... totally inept.

NO ARMY IN THE UNIVERSE, WOULD ALLOW AN ENEMY COMBATANT TO RESIDE A HUNDRED YARDS AWAY WITHOUT EVEN TRYING TO ATTACK THEM.

Ahhh ... but except ISIS, they obviously won't attack their "comrades" the Turkey's. Maybe the got the NATO memo, "No turkey this christmas".

your argument & question bent like that of a Camel's neck .

Let me explain ;

When asked why your neck is bent ?
Camel replied ; where else on my body is straight ?

You are arriving at the wrong conclusions because your presumptions are incorrect.

ISIS is not Nato creation .

You can argue that ISIS is the creation of Blackwater like agencies courtesy of Mossad & NeoCons .

Oh yeah , anyone who can put on a ski mask can become ISIS evidently .

Turks if anything will attack ISIS when the time is ripe and defeat them . ISIS poses an existential threat to Turks .
A small but important detail you seem to be unaware of .

a reply to: markosity1973

Just to clarify, Russia is not holding a meeting to discuss invading Turkey, rather to discuss Turkey's hostile act of sending troops into Iraq that RT is labelling an invasion.

Imagine that when Russia did that in Ukraine it was called peacekeeping not an invasion...you have to love the hypocrisy Russian media shows on a regular basis.

a reply to: bjarneorn

NO ARMY IN THE UNIVERSE, WOULD ALLOW AN ENEMY COMBATANT TO RESIDE A HUNDRED YARDS AWAY WITHOUT EVEN TRYING TO ATTACK THEM.

Really?

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

I could see an Iraqi armor unit from the berms during Desert Sheild.
NOT a military historian...

a reply to: cavtrooper7

I could see an Iraqi armor unit from the berms during Desert Sheild.
NOT a military historian...

And yet you didn't attack them at that time. You must be one of the exceptions.

originally posted by: bjarneorn

originally posted by: MrSpad
Turkey is just positioning itself for the inevitable.

Now, you're not being truthful ... you are much more informed than this.

The OBVIOUS part in it all, is that ISIS is a casus belli. It doesn't matter weather they are 100 thousand, or 30 thousand ... their position there is backed by someone. Now, NATO is saying Lybia is becoming stable ... with ISIS and Al Qaida in control. One no longer has to speculate, what role ISIS is playing.

IFF ISIS was ISIS, those mean looking, fear mongering, s.o.b.s we all "hear" them to be ... then the TURKS there would be dead. They're not stupid, ignorant morons ... they know very well, what the Turks are there to do. The fact, that the Turks are alive ... has little to do with Kurdish *fist rattling*, which will be your argument ... and, it's a null argument void of reality. ISIS, knowing fully their very existence is at stake ... *should* have taken them out, and acquired their equipment almost immediately as they entered.

There is a deal between the two ... and Turkey is not acting here, without NATO's backing.

therefore, ISIS is NATO's creation ... period. Any argument on the contrary, is just stupidity and you're not that stupid and don't insult our intelligence, with BS arguments.

This, is how confrontation with ISIS will occur ... when Assad is out of power, and NATO decides to "destroy ISIS".

There will be clashes with some "portions" of ISIS, but ISIS will be reduced to only a fraction of it's strength. The official explanation will be, that ISIS members defected prior to NATO arriving. This would also be described as a tactic by NATO, to reduce loss of life during any clashes with ISIS. ISIS will be defeated swiftly, and NATO will voice a plan to create a sunni iraq (according to original US plan), and will start "training" an Iraqi army (just like Turkey now). Nobody will realize, that the new Iraq sunni army, is merely ISIS haven taken their ski masks off. How sinister is that, really.

This is how it was planned to occur, Mr.Spad and don't insult our intelligence with any BS.

IFF ISIS was ISIS, they would basically go underground and become "assassins". Even if the ISIS squad, that is merely a few hundred yards away from the Turks, didn't trust itself to beat them ... they'd "disperse" and become mobile. That's how you fight a stationary army. And tell us, how "fears" the Turks are. Their Army is a joke. Yes, it's a BIG Army ... which makes it just a BIG joke. All their movements, weather with or without NATO backing ... shout "tactical failure". They're just lucky, nobody is there to take advantage of their errors. Which makes them "regionally" adept, or just everyone else int he area ... totally inept.

NO ARMY IN THE UNIVERSE, WOULD ALLOW AN ENEMY COMBATANT TO RESIDE A HUNDRED YARDS AWAY WITHOUT EVEN TRYING TO ATTACK THEM.

Ahhh ... but except ISIS, they obviously won't attack their "comrades" the Turkey's. Maybe the got the NATO memo, "No turkey this christmas".

No, no, no. When do think ISIS was created and where? It started out in Jordan in the late 1990s trying to take out the Royal Family and replace it with a radical state, it assassinated a US diplomat and was chased from Jordan to Iraq by Jordan and the US. Saddam welcomed them at first hoping to use them to help put down the Shia rebellion in the southern marshes. They avoided that and Saddam found out they were planning on removing him along with Jordan and the Saudis etc. Then as they were being hunted the US invaded and they changed names and began fighting the Americans. They were joined by radicals let out Assad's prisons to fight the US with promises of amnesty if the survived. This where the two groups met and formed ties. During the Surge and Awakening they went under ground and the Syrians returned to Syria and were thrown right back into prison. Meanwhile the civil war broke out in Syria.

In Iraq the US pulled mostly out and ISIS allied with Sunnis and Saddams former officers and soldiers to take out the new Shia dominated Iraqi gov. They went on a great blizt but it failed. In Syria Assad was in trouble the Free Syrian Army and other radicals groups were pushing his deserting forces hard. His only hope was that some clashes had broken out between the radicals and the FSA. So he released his radicals again hoping that would be the final straw in between the FSA and radicals. And they were. However, they restored ties with their old allies in Iraq and what we know as ISIS today was truly born.

ISIS screwed the US and Wests plans up in both Iraq and Syria. And now that have been suffering defeat after defeat everybody is looking past ISIS to the future. At this point ISIS is just something that had to be finished off.

ISIS in Mosul are doomed. The question is who will get them first the Shia Iraqis or the Turkish backed Kurds and Iraqi Sunnis. Because that prize will be useful to both sides. They can not attack and can not hold the city,

ISIS is doomed because they can no longer go under ground. Everybody in the towns and villages know who they are. ISIS in Mosul are likely to just run, in particular if the Turkish backed Kurds and Sunnis come first.

Turkey is acting as Turkey. NATO does not control its members.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

We scared 'em

I think it's all gonna be worked out via a hammer-and-anvil attack on Mosul. Out with the bad, in with the good and Baghdad can kiss the province goodbye. How many nations will recognize Kurdistan is already being negotiated.

foreignpolicy.com...

www.//foreignpolicy.com/2015/11/12/kurds-assault-isis-in-sinjar-with-eyes-on-mosul/

There is prescient for Mosul being the front line in Ottoman vs Persian war...

en.wikipedia.org...(1743)

www.//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Mosul_(1743)

Has the Iraqi Airforce bombed them yet ? They have a islamic caliphate inside their borders yet they are talking about protecting territorial integrity and ensuring their borders
Turkey must be crapping their pants

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: MrSpad

As for forcing the Turks out, it simply can not be done if they do not want to leave.

Kind of like forcing the US out eh .Seems to be some big double standards happening when it comes to groups that can be divided along ethnic religious or sovereign lines . If the UN stands for United Nations I would think to eliminate or re-create a Nation could be problematic . It could be a very convenient tool as well . Imagine creating a Kurdistan or and a Sunnistan . Turkmenistan ,Talibanstan , or even a Texastan . Right now Turkey is not helping it's self and sooner or later this will be settled ,either by hook or by crook ..

Sorry to nitpick but Turkmenistan is already a country. It's on the norther border of both Iran and Afghanistan. I agree with everything else you said though.

I'm starting to think Erdogan was given the order to start a war, no matter what. Meaning, he was given the order to use Turkish troops as the "boots on the ground" since the "rebels" & terrorists keep failing. But maybe he needs Assad, Russia, or Iraq to attack them in order to make it official? I'm only 50-60% convinced of this option, though.

I'm much more convinced that Turkey's intervention in Iraq is simply to secure the flow of oil from Iraqi territory into Turkey. As in, Turkey's cutting out the middle men now that their secret alliances w/ISIS are being revealed. This would also explain why Iraq's Prime Minister proclaimed that most of ISIS's oil is going through Turkey.

Iraq: ISIS smuggles majority of oil via Turkey

Guess we'll have to see.