Romans 13, rebuttal and information

Romans 13New International Version (NIV)
Submission to Governing Authorities

13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

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My rebuttal and some information.

"Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established"

What a load of horse manure. The collective apathy of the people has a far greater influence on who is established within our governing authorities than the will of God. The overwhelming majority of people in places of political power and authority are narcissist and sociopaths who are devoid of any spiritual guidance to what they do with their position power. To say that the creator of the universe established this debacle is an insult to the divine in nature.

It has also become a matter of conscience to refute the commands of these godless would be rulers and follow the divine will as revealed within us. Our personal connection with the divine is far more credible as a model of good direction than the edicts of godless and corrupt sociopath leaders.

a reply to: machineintelligence

Yeah but who cares what Paul had to say?

Aside from the obvious group of people of course

So the alternative to christians?

Overthrow the government, start violent and radical actions.
Was he suggesting that we accept the world was broken or christians shouldnt cause more problems.

I cant understand how you could see any other options outside of rebellion.

Same issue with slaves, dont start revolts, death and violence is the outcome.

So what are the alternatives for christians


and you say the apathy of christians, what about the apathy of so many others

What are the stats for christians voting in elections

a reply to: Raggedyman

The alternative for Christians is to affirm that you do not live in a Christian controlled nation should you find yourself residing within the United States at least. I did not specify the apathy of Christians I said of the people meaning everyone in the US not just the Christians. Christians are no longer the voting majority for sure in the US so it is no Christian nation if it ever truly was. We are all tax slaves now regardless of the color of our skin.

a reply to: machineintelligence

Perhaps radical Islam is more to your liking in religio-politic terms?

originally posted by: machineintelligence
a reply to: Raggedyman

The alternative for Christians is to affirm that you do not live in a Christian controlled nation should you find yourself residing within the United States at least. I did not specify the apathy of Christians I said of the people meaning everyone in the US not just the Christians. Christians are no longer the voting majority for sure in the US so it is no Christian nation if it ever truly was. We are all tax slaves now regardless of the color of our skin.

Has there ever been a christian controlled nation, not sure I have seen a christian controlled church, never mind a nation.

Christian because we are sinners, not because we are good people.

I think Pauls point was to accept the burden of evil, He will judge them.

a reply to: Raggedyman
I think state and religion were one and the same when this was written and simply does not apply any longer.

a reply to: machineintelligence

The very next verse says:

"Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law." - Romans 13:8

Jesus Christ agrees:

Matthew 7:12 King James Version (KJV)

12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Rebellion leads to more strict laws:

"Order out of Chaos"

Paul and Jesus says to continue with Love.

When The People change,
The Society will change.

When the Society changes,

So will the leaders who are influenced and live in that Society.



A lot of what the corrupted leaders believe, is what people think is "cool"...


"Money over everything" - Drake and many other rappers

"B*tch better have my money... I call the shot, shot, shots" - Rihanna


The Kingdom of God is within. Love must be within and THEN the outer world/physical will reflect it. Putting all the blame on the authories and rebelling, while still listening to Music and Media of greed, violence, and apathy will not solve the problem.

Violence does not heal violence, only Love can heal.

And if you only focus on darkness in the world, you will miss out on all of The Light that shines through the world.