A Question For Gay People

originally posted by: thebtheb

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: stolencar18
a reply to: Annee

Okay...lets be honest. I am ignorant. There? Happy? I just want to know. We all know that what I describe occurs quite regularly. I'm wondering why. I don't judge it. I think it's fine. I'm curious what motivates it.

The body and brain make you who you are. It's that simple.

Have gay men acted more "manly" to hide their orientation. Yes. It's a survival tool. Really no different then how one might dress for certain jobs ---- when their real persona is quite different.

. . . certainly not the bulk. Personality/sexuality is far far too complex to denote it down to physicalities.

I'm just gonna say I have 20+ years of reading/researching this subject.

Why do you say what you do?

originally posted by: zerozero00
a reply to: stolencar18

Not at all, I disagree with the motive behind the OP

ok, i'll put it this way to suit you

A "butch" girl is born and designed that way...the same way you are born and designed the "butch" guy
no mystery

Now, your questions seems silly yes?


I'll add this, a camp guy acts camp because he is designed to ...his voice is the way it is because nature designed to work that way, he is comfortable in his skin if he can be who he is designed to be by his normal DNA...just like you, me and everyone else

Nothing missing nothing added, just a normal guy that isn't the same as you...awesome, nature at its best

Now remember I'm gay before you read my response. I just don't believe that everyone is designed by DNA, or born the way they end up. If you look at any person, gay or straight, their manerisms, way of speaking, habits, can change drastically over a decade. People change because of their experiences, because their personalities change. Men do not come out of the womb pre-programmed to speak effeminately. There are many doctors and psychologists who repeat this regularly. But it's the worst possible time for anyone to hear this, because gay rights/marriage/acceptance has caused a VERY politically correct climate/behaviour towards gays. And one of the hallmarks of that climate is: gay people were born that way.

Understand, I'm not saying it's a conscious choice. For all intents and purposes, I did not choose to be gay. In fact, I tried not to be for a time. So what I'm talking about is the structure of human personality, human sexuality, how it develops, and how very varied and expansive it can be - even in the same person. But I truly think people miss the boat, relegating it all to something inherent at birth.

How about this story: I read this man's blog who claimed he was straight as a board until he was 50. He had never had a gay thought/feeling in his life. But after a woman broke up with him and hurt him very badly, he was so hurt that he didn't ever want to have a relationship with a woman again. So he entertained having a relationship with a man. He thought about it for a long long time, before deciding to try it. First he attempted sex, and he psyched himself and psyched himself into it (I wish I had the link to his blog, it was fascinating) and long story short, today he loves sex with men, more than he does with women (still likes sex with women too but rarely does it). I personally don't think he would have anything to hide by telling anyone that story. Once you're gay and having sex, all bets are off - nothing to hide. Which is why I believe him. And he would literally be someone who chose to be gay.

Someone who I knew personally was straight as a board, went to prison for 8 years, came out liking sex with men more than women.

Clearly, nothing changed in these people's DNA or genes. They changed.

I really think it does everyone a disservice, and limits our understanding of the human psyche, to assume that behaviour and identify is inherent at birth, and dependent on genes. There is no proof for it. It's just certainly not the time to advance these thoughts. I know that! But I look forward to a time where it won't matter if someone chooses to be gay. So what? Is the whole thing that "I can't help being gay," so you have to accept me? I think it should be, sure, "Yeah, I chose to be gay, what's the problem?"

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: thebtheb

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: stolencar18
a reply to: Annee

Okay...lets be honest. I am ignorant. There? Happy? I just want to know. We all know that what I describe occurs quite regularly. I'm wondering why. I don't judge it. I think it's fine. I'm curious what motivates it.

The body and brain make you who you are. It's that simple.

Have gay men acted more "manly" to hide their orientation. Yes. It's a survival tool. Really no different then how one might dress for certain jobs ---- when their real persona is quite different.

. . . certainly not the bulk. Personality/sexuality is far far too complex to denote it down to physicalities.

I'm just gonna say I have 20+ years of reading/researching this subject.

Why do you say what you do?

Then you'll know there are many valid doctors, psychologists who agree with me, and you will also know that they dispute much of what you say, and you should also know that there is no verifiable proof that sexuality is down to genes/DNA.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: thebtheb

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: stolencar18
a reply to: Annee

Okay...lets be honest. I am ignorant. There? Happy? I just want to know. We all know that what I describe occurs quite regularly. I'm wondering why. I don't judge it. I think it's fine. I'm curious what motivates it.

The body and brain make you who you are. It's that simple.

Have gay men acted more "manly" to hide their orientation. Yes. It's a survival tool. Really no different then how one might dress for certain jobs ---- when their real persona is quite different.

. . . certainly not the bulk. Personality/sexuality is far far too complex to denote it down to physicalities.

I'm just gonna say I have 20+ years of reading/researching this subject.

Why do you say what you do?

But sorry, to answer your question, I'm 50, have a BA in psychology, and have been researching this, reading everything, since I was 20.

originally posted by: thebtheb

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: thebtheb

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: stolencar18
a reply to: Annee

Okay...lets be honest. I am ignorant. There? Happy? I just want to know. We all know that what I describe occurs quite regularly. I'm wondering why. I don't judge it. I think it's fine. I'm curious what motivates it.

The body and brain make you who you are. It's that simple.

Have gay men acted more "manly" to hide their orientation. Yes. It's a survival tool. Really no different then how one might dress for certain jobs ---- when their real persona is quite different.

. . . certainly not the bulk. Personality/sexuality is far far too complex to denote it down to physicalities.

I'm just gonna say I have 20+ years of reading/researching this subject.

Why do you say what you do?

Then you'll know there are many valid doctors, psychologists who agree with me, and you will also know that they dispute much of what you say, and you should also know that there is no verifiable proof that sexuality is down to genes/DNA.

I would need to know who they are so I can read what they say.

originally posted by: thebtheb

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: thebtheb

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: stolencar18
a reply to: Annee

Okay...lets be honest. I am ignorant. There? Happy? I just want to know. We all know that what I describe occurs quite regularly. I'm wondering why. I don't judge it. I think it's fine. I'm curious what motivates it.

The body and brain make you who you are. It's that simple.

Have gay men acted more "manly" to hide their orientation. Yes. It's a survival tool. Really no different then how one might dress for certain jobs ---- when their real persona is quite different.

. . . certainly not the bulk. Personality/sexuality is far far too complex to denote it down to physicalities.

I'm just gonna say I have 20+ years of reading/researching this subject.

Why do you say what you do?

But sorry, to answer your question, I'm 50, have a BA in psychology, and have been researching this, reading everything, since I was 20.

What does psychology have to do with it.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: thebtheb

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: thebtheb

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: stolencar18
a reply to: Annee

Okay...lets be honest. I am ignorant. There? Happy? I just want to know. We all know that what I describe occurs quite regularly. I'm wondering why. I don't judge it. I think it's fine. I'm curious what motivates it.

The body and brain make you who you are. It's that simple.

Have gay men acted more "manly" to hide their orientation. Yes. It's a survival tool. Really no different then how one might dress for certain jobs ---- when their real persona is quite different.

. . . certainly not the bulk. Personality/sexuality is far far too complex to denote it down to physicalities.

I'm just gonna say I have 20+ years of reading/researching this subject.

Why do you say what you do?

But sorry, to answer your question, I'm 50, have a BA in psychology, and have been researching this, reading everything, since I was 20.

What does psychology have to do with it.

I don't know why you'd even ask that question. Psychology and personality/identity are pretty linked I'd say. Psychology has to with it that there are plenty of valid hypoetheses about sexuality identity.

I am gathering being gay as an identity means a lot to you, which is probably why you believe what you do and are so passionate about it. Being gay means very little to me, except that I am. It does not form my identity any more than the fact that I like chocolate ice cream. This anyway, would explain to me why I'm not passionate about what you're saying, and have no problem with what I'm saying.

But at this point, I don't think there's anything that can prove you or I right. We're talking.

Also, animals are a great example of what humans might be if they followed their natural inclinations: almost all species have been observed performing homosexual acts, but never has a totally gay animal been observed, yet all of them have been observed performing both. Now don't tell me every animal is born with bisexual genes....

originally posted by: YouSir

originally posted by: skoalman88
Has anyone actually answered his question?

Ummm...yep...

originally posted by: YouSir
a reply to: stolencar18

Dude, I am going to safely say that 99% of wickedly effeminate gay men do NOT want to change their sex. You are WAY off there.


Ummm...okay...in a nutshell here goes...Feminine gay guys and masculine lesbian gals are kinda wired to be that way much as ANNEE stated many many times...however she nor anyone else has answered your questions...

This is my opinion for what it's worth...These people you speak of gender identify as the opposite sex and are potential sex change candidates who either can't/wont go through with the procedure for whatever reason...or are on a waiting list to do so...Probably much to the future chagrin of their current partner........or not...

Let's also remember chimera and hermaphroditic characteristics for a moment...if we consider only partial as in hormonal/genetic hermaphroditic/chimeric characteristics within the context of sexuality..then one can surmise that percentages of this group as per the parameters in the OP may be carrying these characteristics and expressing themselves in a most natural way due to their mixed/partial genetic predisposition...NOTE: I did not say inherited I merely was speaking to mixed sexual characteristics that occur naturally in the setting of partial hermaphroditic/chimeric interfaces within the host organism...as relates to expressionism...

There...OP...I think I've answered your question...
Remember...this isn't a fault reduction...rather an effort to explain that humans come in many varieties and many of those varieties are sexual in nature...These people are as they are...and deserve our respect and compassion...not ridicule and belittling...

YouSir

YouSir

a reply to: YouSir

Dude, I am going to safely say that 99% of effeminate gay men do NOT want to change their sex. You are WAY off there. I know a ton of them and they LOVE their dicks.

originally posted by: thebtheb

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: thebtheb

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: thebtheb

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: stolencar18
a reply to: Annee

Okay...lets be honest. I am ignorant. There? Happy? I just want to know. We all know that what I describe occurs quite regularly. I'm wondering why. I don't judge it. I think it's fine. I'm curious what motivates it.

The body and brain make you who you are. It's that simple.

Have gay men acted more "manly" to hide their orientation. Yes. It's a survival tool. Really no different then how one might dress for certain jobs ---- when their real persona is quite different.

. . . certainly not the bulk. Personality/sexuality is far far too complex to denote it down to physicalities.

I'm just gonna say I have 20+ years of reading/researching this subject.

Why do you say what you do?

But sorry, to answer your question, I'm 50, have a BA in psychology, and have been researching this, reading everything, since I was 20.

What does psychology have to do with it.

I don't know why you'd even ask that question. Psychology and personality/identity are pretty linked I'd say. Psychology has to with it that there are plenty of valid hypoetheses about sexuality identity.

I am gathering being gay as an identity means a lot to you, which is probably why you believe what you do and are so passionate about it. Being gay means very little to me, except that I am. It does not form my identity any more than the fact that I like chocolate ice cream. This anyway, would explain to me why I'm not passionate about what you're saying, and have no problem with what I'm saying.
.

I'm a hetero female. Been married 21 years. Just shy of 70.

I've developed a theory about the trans-gender issue. I think reincarnation might be the answer. Perhaps a person's higher self is still attached to being the opposite gender. That would explain why every fiber of their being feels like mother nature made a mistake. Re-assignment surgeries require skin grafts and other very painful process'. No one makes that choice lightly that's for sure!

a reply to: SpookyM

Excellent post.
Very possibly true.


But, of course, the "Abrahamic" religions don't believe in reincarnation -