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Yet another case of bad crew coordination

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posted on Dec, 7 2015 @ 10:31 AM
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Preliminary investigation of a Qatar 777-300ER departure overrun in Miami shows that poor crew coordination and management led to the incident. The aircraft suffered significant damage, including a breach of the pressure vessel, but continued on to its destination after departure.

The crew was departing from runway 09, which has a restriction on intersection departures. Calculations for a full length departure were performed using the electronic flight bag calculator. The display showed 09#T1 during the calculations.

On taxi for departure, as they passed the T1 intersection, the captain decided they could depart from that intersection, but "couldn't recall" his reasons for thinking that. The first officer checked and saw the T1 in the calculations and decided the captain was right. The relief crew, which was in the cockpit for takeoff, was convinced that the decision was correct in a subsequent conversation.

The aircraft rotated with just 985 feet remaining. They departed the end of the runway, and struck the approach lights on the departure end of the runway. The crew said they were unaware of this, and elected to continue to Doha.

Upon inspection the aircraft was found to have an 18 inch tear behind the aft cargo door that breached the pressure vessel, damage to the landing gear, and approximately 193 square feet of damage to the skin. There were 90 individual areas requiring inspection.

www.flightglobal.com...




posted on Dec, 7 2015 @ 10:35 AM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

It sounds fishy enough that the captain couldn't recall his reasoning, but he could have completely trashed the airplane with that move. I wonder what he was thinking.



posted on Dec, 7 2015 @ 10:37 AM
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a reply to: EchoOff

As far as "forgetting", probably that he completely screwed the pooch, got lucky as hell, and better cover his ass.

As for the departure, probably gethomeitis.

Whatever the reason, they got damn lucky they made it in one piece with that much damage.



posted on Dec, 7 2015 @ 10:40 AM
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I think that it says more for the structural integrity of the 777 than anything else.



posted on Dec, 7 2015 @ 11:00 AM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

Something tells me that the FDR and CVR will have interesting things to say about this tomfoolery. Tears in aircraft skin are not a simple problem to fix.



posted on Dec, 7 2015 @ 11:28 AM
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a reply to: JIMC5499

Yeah it does. Yet more proof that this is one of the best commercial aircraft built to date.



posted on Dec, 7 2015 @ 12:09 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

The 777 is probably my favorite bird to fly international routes in (other than the 757!). It's stable as a rock, and just has this incredibly solid yet spacious feel to it. It feels like the flying equivalent of a well-appointed Volvo.

As the only all-new large airliner design of the 90's, I also feel as if it's a really cool sort of "missing link" between the "born on a drafting table" airliners of the 60s, 70s, and 80s, and the modern CAD/Composite-fests of the 00's and 10's like the A350, 787, A380, etc.



posted on Dec, 7 2015 @ 12:14 PM
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Zow. So many Human Factors errors. Confirmation bias. Lack of Assertiveness. Lack of Communication. It's not clear why the tower allowed the takeoff when Flight Global explains that intersection takeoffs are prohibited at that airport. Also can't believe that they were able to maintain pressurization all the way to Doha.

Crazy pilots.



posted on Dec, 7 2015 @ 12:16 PM
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a reply to: cosmania

I'm sure that the FAA will be talking to the tower controllers as part of the investigation as well. Crew coordination causes more accidents than just about any other two causes combined.



posted on Dec, 7 2015 @ 01:54 PM
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Thing that struck me most was that nobody realised they were 1000m in from the start of the runway.
It seems to me that there needs to be a new tool in the box for intersections, a distance colour coding or something satisfactory and unambiguous to tell the crew where they are in relation to the start or end of a runway.



posted on Dec, 7 2015 @ 01:58 PM
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a reply to: smurfy

One would assume that such a tool already exists, and is called "your eyes, idiot"



posted on Dec, 7 2015 @ 02:12 PM
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a reply to: EchoOff

Sounds like he is trying to cover his ass. He knows he messed up but is not going to incriminate himself.



posted on Dec, 7 2015 @ 02:59 PM
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originally posted by: Barnalby
a reply to: smurfy

One would assume that such a tool already exists, and is called "your eyes, idiot"


Happened in Tenerife in a bad way didn't it, it's called fog, and as Zaphod said a possible Gethomeitis, er idiot. Anyway the word I used was unambiguous, as in to make unambiguous. Everything in it's place.



posted on Dec, 10 2015 @ 10:14 AM
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Contrary to the investigation Qatar chief Akbar al Baker says the ATC in Miami told the crew to depart from that intersection, and there was plenty of runway available. He also said the plane and passengers weren't in any danger.

He went in to make this comment, which guarantees I will not get on a Qatar aircraft no matter how good their rep is:


“Such kind of incidents happen quite often, either it is a tail strike on the runway or it is contact with the landing lights,” says Al Baker. “It is nothing out of context.”

www.flightglobal.com...



posted on Dec, 10 2015 @ 11:02 AM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58


“Such kind of incidents happen quite often, either it is a tail strike on the runway or it is contact with the landing lights,” says Al Baker. “It is nothing out of context.”



Unless the aircraft's takeoff was a little crappier than normal in which case it would have plowed headlong into the approach lights. During which exchange a lot of passengers would probably do a lot less living then they are currently doing. Outstanding, Qatar.



posted on Dec, 10 2015 @ 11:13 AM
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a reply to: Darkpr0

For something that he says is quite common, I only remember it happening where we were one time in almost 30 years.

Of course that one time was 90 minutes before Air Force One was due to land, which made it interesting and kind of memorable.



posted on Dec, 10 2015 @ 11:40 AM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58

Of course that one time was 90 minutes before Air Force One was due to land, which made it interesting and kind of memorable.


Bad things only happen when the boss is watching. I'm pretty sure that was a law that Newton never got around to writing down.



posted on Dec, 10 2015 @ 11:40 AM
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hey you guys....I'm worried to death some pilots don't get as much throttle pushed as the Boeing pilots at Paine Field do....( where the 777 meets the new owners )

I'm talking huge difference.....And
I figured that would be addressed .....maybe at Paine Field.....because it's a problem for the residential area north of the runway ....Malaysian just about made my heart stop beating permanently that one day.......to see something that big out of configuration.....with the drop-off and major highway beyond,

surely that is not seen these days....someone tell me they stopped the wingdips, too.....
edit on 10-12-2015 by GBP/JPY because: our new King.....He comes right after a nicely done fake one

edit on 10-12-2015 by GBP/JPY because: our new King.....He comes right after a nicely done fake one



posted on Dec, 10 2015 @ 11:48 AM
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a reply to: Darkpr0

I think you're right. I will say it was impressive as hell to see the bend they put into the pole the light was mounted on. Thing was a good two inches in diameter and it was bent into a 45 degree angle. Guy from the airport walked in, dropped it on a desk and very nonchalantly said, "You might want to check your planes out."



posted on Dec, 10 2015 @ 12:17 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

Zaphod58, things like this occur in cycles. All depends on everybody doing their part and working together. I know they guys I fly with we always double check each others work.

Cade in point:

Today, my plane gets towed out of the hangar and the ground guys noticed maintenance left masking tape on the engine cowling and peeled it off. No biggie as it was on top and behind the intake.

Second I'd like to share a nightmare first officer story. Maybe others could share some of their stories. Years ago on a Learjet 35, we had a FO who would close his eyes in the climb out with the autopilot on, he did a bunch of other stupid stuff but this is the icing on the cake. Plane in the hanger, he's doing the walk around while taking on the phone. Hangar has cameras so it's all recorded.

Plane takes off, shortly after they get fuel pressure low light. Skipper declares emergency and lands thankfully. Maintenance was working on the fuel system and covered all naca vents with tape so fuel tanks were not vented. Thankfully the plane had a few hundred pounds of fuel in the fuselage tank so the wing tanks didn't implode and engines didn't flame out. Anyway, maintenance forgot to remove the tape and FO didn't do a proper walk around. He maintained he did to the very end, management showed him the video and fired him on the spot. Maintenance also got a talking to.

Case in point, you're only as good as your crew.




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