Community rallies behind 6-year-old transgender girl

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain
The issue for me isn't whether "Trans-Gender" is a real thing or not. I simply don't care.

But I DO care about labeling CHILDREN that BEFORE their sexuality or identity is even HALF WAY developed.

I've known women from school who were total and complete TomBoys, who wanted nothing to do with girl stuff, who literally acted like boys themselves and only hung around the boys, and grew up to be feminine straight child bearing HAPPY Women.

You can't decide by SIX what your belief is.

Belief? What does belief have to do with inherent sexual orientation/sexual identity?

I was a complete tomboy. That has nothing to do with anything. Being transgender does not mean you have to be a "girly girl".

The brain tells you who you are. In transgender the brain tells you your sexual identity is opposite of your physical gender packaging.

There's a camp for transgender youth. They are expanding out of need. The camp takes kids starting at 8 years old. While still small in number, there are far more then most are aware of.

Camp Aranutiq: www.camparanutiq.org...

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Tomboy != transgendered

My cousin used to be a tomboy as a kid, but at no point did I ever hear her say that she secretly felt like a man.

I am demonstrating that kids FEEL and IDENTIFY with certain things that are masculine and feminine traditionally.

And I'm saying that a six year old or child saying they are transgendered isn't the same thing as a tomboy. Tomboyishness is a phase. Gender Dysphoria is MUCH more complicated and isn't just a phase.

For a SIX YEAR old to say "I feel like a man" is hardly a LIFELONG admission of being "Trans-Gendered"

Sentence your kid to a lifetime based on a feeling, when their GENES and BIOLOGY and BRAIN aren't even developed yet?

As has been shown by Freja, no one is being "sentenced" to anything. There is a LONG process that must be completed. It's not like at the age of 6 they start whacking off your penis or anything. There are considerations made for the child in case it really WAS a phase and the child grows out of it.

And if a parent ENCOURAGES you that you really are 'not who you are", a child's natural inclination of reward, positive reinforcement, and ATTENTION can further a simple 'phase'...if it is one.

SIX....

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Tomboy != transgendered

My cousin used to be a tomboy as a kid, but at no point did I ever hear her say that she secretly felt like a man.

I am demonstrating that kids FEEL and IDENTIFY with certain things that are masculine and feminine traditionally.

And I'm saying that a six year old or child saying they are transgendered isn't the same thing as a tomboy. Tomboyishness is a phase. Gender Dysphoria is MUCH more complicated and isn't just a phase.

For a SIX YEAR old to say "I feel like a man" is hardly a LIFELONG admission of being "Trans-Gendered"

Sentence your kid to a lifetime based on a feeling, when their GENES and BIOLOGY and BRAIN aren't even developed yet?

As has been shown by Freja, no one is being "sentenced" to anything. There is a LONG process that must be completed. It's not like at the age of 6 they start whacking off your penis or anything. There are considerations made for the child in case it really WAS a phase and the child grows out of it.

And if a parent ENCOURAGES you that you really are 'not who you are", a child's natural inclination of reward, positive reinforcement, and ATTENTION can further a simple 'phase'...if it is one.

SIX....

And if that turns out to be the case, everything is reversible up until their teenage years when they start taking hormones (heck even then it may still be reversible to an extent). You can't get actual SRS surgery until you are 18. EIGHTEEN.... (see I can do that too)

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Tomboy != transgendered

My cousin used to be a tomboy as a kid, but at no point did I ever hear her say that she secretly felt like a man.

I am demonstrating that kids FEEL and IDENTIFY with certain things that are masculine and feminine traditionally.

And I'm saying that a six year old or child saying they are transgendered isn't the same thing as a tomboy. Tomboyishness is a phase. Gender Dysphoria is MUCH more complicated and isn't just a phase.

For a SIX YEAR old to say "I feel like a man" is hardly a LIFELONG admission of being "Trans-Gendered"

Sentence your kid to a lifetime based on a feeling, when their GENES and BIOLOGY and BRAIN aren't even developed yet?

As has been shown by Freja, no one is being "sentenced" to anything. There is a LONG process that must be completed. It's not like at the age of 6 they start whacking off your penis or anything. There are considerations made for the child in case it really WAS a phase and the child grows out of it.

And if a parent ENCOURAGES you that you really are 'not who you are", a child's natural inclination of reward, positive reinforcement, and ATTENTION can further a simple 'phase'...if it is one.

SIX....

And if that turns out to be the case, everything is reversible up until their teenage years when they start taking hormones (heck even then it may still be reversible to an extent). You can't get actual SRS surgery until you are 18. EIGHTEEN.... (see I can do that too)

I'm not talking about the surgery, I'm talking about formative years that START with childhood. A time when FAIRIES and DRAGONS are on the list of possibilities, and Jedi Powers could be 'real'

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

I know what you are talking about, that's why precautions are made and are in place.

Do you REALLY think it will be the end of the world for a child if it wears a dress for a few years, decides that he was really a he after all and then goes back to not wearing dresses?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

I know what you are talking about, that's why precautions are made.

Do you REALLY think it will be the end of the world for a child if it wears a dress for a few years, decides that he was really a he after all and then goes back to not wearing dresses?

I'm just protective about children, and I think a lot of these parents are too INVOLVED and PC about it, they could end up damaging their kids. These things have consequences into adulthood which could spiral out if the kid was in a PHASE and the parent was WRONG.

Six is young, yes. Can any of you remember being 6? because I can.

I was 4/5 in kindergarten, and 5/6 in grade one.
Throughout both years, I wanted to kiss Billy Courtney.
I had a best friend Dawn, but I didn't want to kiss her.
I also wanted to be a mommy when I grew up.

(Billy....*smooch*....that one's for you!)

jacygirl

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain
I'm just protective about children, and I think a lot of these parents are too INVOLVED and PC about it, they could end up damaging their kids. These things have consequences into adulthood which could spiral out if the kid was in a PHASE and the parent was WRONG.

The years of on-going psychological and psychiatric evaluation and counseling of both the children and parents will clearly be able to determine if this is a PHASE. Parents do not make this determination for their children nor can they obtain surgery or hormone therapy on demand.

The treatment of trans kids is a drawn out and comprehensive process. Nobody is making rash decisions and each step is proceeded with using caution and great care.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Let's see, you insist on (most likely) damaging these kids by not listening to them when they say they aren't really the gender they were born as instead opting to call it a phase. And you defend this by saying that there is a possibility of damaging the kids later on in life?

How about instead of thinking FOR the children, you let THEM think for themselves and listen to what they are saying? Like I said (and you keep ignoring) everything done during these years during a child's life is reversible. So what's the harm in exploring it a bit just to be sure?

nvm

a reply to: Freija


I feel that the onset of the Trans Gender labal has grown exponentially since I was young.

Nature or Nurture? Are all these kids SUDDENLY showing a biological shift from environment, is it more 'acceptable' or dare I say 'chic'? Is it more encouraged?

All could be true. I think it's foolish to just think NATURE is the only answer.

And P.S., I'm not comparing this to sexual attraction. I believe people are born gay.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

"Exploring" it is one thing. Encouraging it, fostering it, at the very moment of 'onset' is another.

Little kids are NOT developed. And MANY parents are screwballs and mentally unstable themselves.

Nobody is immune to bad decisions or mistakes.

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain
a reply to: Freija


I feel that the onset of the Trans Gender labal has grown exponentially since I was young.

Nature or Nurture? Are all these kids SUDDENLY showing a biological shift from environment, is it more 'acceptable' or dare I say 'chic'? Is it more encouraged?

All could be true. I think it's foolish to just think NATURE is the only answer.

And P.S., I'm not comparing this to sexual attraction. I believe people are born gay.

There is no sudden onset of some transgender phenomenon. It has existed since recorded history and has been both accepted and persecuted by varying degrees by various cultures.

In western Christian culture, it has been demonized right along with homosexuality. When homosexuals began to find some equality and publicity, people thought it was an epidemic and wondered how we are getting so many more gay people suddenly. We weren't. They just didn't have to hide as much.

This happens with every marginalized demographic. These kids have always existed. Before, many didn't make it to adulthood and those that did lived very painful and closeted lives. We are now at a stage in our understanding that we can save these kids and the surviving adults who are caught between eras are also slowly coming out and seeking help.

The key is to treat the children in a way that causes no harm, no permanent change, yet still allows them the opportunity to have normal adult lives. This is what is happening and it is largely working.

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain
a reply to: Krazysh0t

"Exploring" it is one thing. Encouraging it, fostering it, at the very moment of 'onset' is another.

Little kids are NOT developed. And MANY parents are screwballs and mentally unstable themselves.

Nobody is immune to bad decisions or mistakes.

AGAIN this is all reversible. Why do you not want to acknowledge this? If mistakes are made, it won't be the end of the child's life. The child can easily go RIGHT back to the gender it was born as.

Poor kid. Societal decline has evidently reached a point where some parents encourage their children to make life-altering mistakes, instead of warning against them.

I fear for the future.

I'd have pity for the parents, too - if I believed they are really acting with the child's best interest at heart. Call me cynical, but I'm betting the parents are more concerned with appearing 'progressive.'

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain
a reply to: Freija


I feel that the onset of the Trans Gender labal has grown exponentially since I was young.

Nature or Nurture? Are all these kids SUDDENLY showing a biological shift from environment, is it more 'acceptable' or dare I say 'chic'? Is it more encouraged?

All could be true. I think it's foolish to just think NATURE is the only answer.

And P.S., I'm not comparing this to sexual attraction. I believe people are born gay.

First of all, what kind of parent would encourage this? I have never heard of parents being anything but mortified by the idea that their young child wants to be the opposite gender or gasp! may socially transition. Imagine the embarrassment and things they are going to have to put up with from friends, family, clergy, etc. Nevermind the expenses involved and their own feelings of "where did we go wrong"?

There are not more transgender kids than there used to be. It only seems that way plus there's more awareness and openness about this condition. There is a link toward the bottom of the OP but I'll repeat it here for convenience.

As transgender youth make news, doctors say it is not a fad but a previously hidden issue

I find it oddly curious that you believe gay people are "born that way" but not trans kids. Wouldn't your belief in one at least add credence to the other?

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

So what is your solution? What would you do if you had a 4-year-old boy who told you they were a girl? And what if they insisted over a period of a couple of years that they were a girl? What if they told you they didn't want to live anymore if they couldn't be a girl on the outside like they were on the inside? What would you do?

a reply to: Freija

The teacher that read that story to those innocent 6 year old kids should be fired and fined and spend a bit in jail for exposing their innocent minds to such an atrocity. As should the parents of the dude in the story. This is sick.

originally posted by: Freija

originally posted by: SlowNail
"Trans kids".

Pretty much sums up the whole issue for me. There should be no such term.

Well, what would suggest we call them then? Just because you don't like the language doesn't mean that they don't exist. They do. They're real. Denial doesn't do a whole lot to make their lives any better.

No, but a slap to the mouth for thinking they wanna be something other than what they were born as will straighten them up. I hope you understand that it's a sickness.

originally posted by: Freija
First of all, what kind of parent would encourage this? I have never heard of parents being anything but mortified by the idea that their young child wants to be the opposite gender or gasp! may socially transition. "where did we go wrong"

Then you have missed a lot of trans news stories.

I can think of several cases discussed recently on ATS which involve young children declaring they were born the 'wrong gender.' In two or three of those cases, the parents were more than accepting of the child's gender confusion and admitted to encouraging it. Incidentally, at least one set of aforementioned parents was homosexual.