Community rallies behind 6-year-old transgender girl

originally posted by: LarryCopano
a reply to: Tiamat384


I knew when I was a child. And I consider it child-abuse that we are forced to live in the wrong gender. I was a boy that was forced to be in an all-girls kindergarten class. THAT will screw you up for life!

Let kids grow up the way they want to grow up.

Welcome to ATS, Larry. I hope you plan to stick around and share your story. You bring up the exact scenario I mentioned earlier. You have the experience of a person who was not allowed to express himself properly and I assume it is not a happy tale.

Now that you are a grown man, how would you explain to some of these ATS members the damage it caused you?

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: interupt42

To be fair I saw and participated in some of those threads and while the pro trans acceptance crowd wanted to be accepted ,heard and understood they also showed very little willingness to see or accept where other's were coming from.

Sorry, but that's crap. Jade said many times that she understood how hard it is to accept her - she understands and forgives her parents for not accepting her in the beginning.

Instead , the pro trans acceptance crowd (NOT ALL) chose to stoop to the same level as the narrow-minded and moron crowd you describe. Hence the thread turned into a personal attack thread.

The key words are NOT ALL. Some of the people who started off against her changed their mind after talking with Jade.

Perhaps the the transgender community needs a better representative and strategy to progress further than labelling everyone else as morons?

Not everyone is labeled as a moron - only those whose minds will never open.

Think about the end game and strategies to get you there. It might not be fair , but when has calling someone a moron has helped them see where you are coming from?

The true moron's mind will NEVER be changed. They'll just have to die for their hate to end. They are a lost cause. Sad, but true.

I did say I was going to cease indulging in this idiotic thread, but I just could not help calling you out for having the nerve to include an ATS member's username (and yes, we all know who you were referring to) who has not made ANY comments in this thread.
Shame on you.

a reply to: Abysha

Yes please show these totally non-self inflicted damages.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: 123143
One must question the wisdom of permitting a child to decide its future at so young an age.

At 6 years old, no surgery is performed, no irreversible drugs are taken, so I'm not sure what you are talking about. How about the wisdom of keeping a child from being suicidal? Does that work for ya?

The OP says the child has transitioned (as in surgery). Is the OP false?

"new discoveries or social advances"

I can understand learning new things all your life , but what do you mean by social advances ?
Can't we be personaly , be advance in all social advances , right now ?
After all ; lgbt black woman religious minorities est , rights , were always justified deductible and understandable.

I don't want to discover that my social and moral attitude depend on historical whims.

Does anyone know of any social controversial matter , same potential future social advance ?

a reply to: Abysha

Then perhaps the time has come for you to step aside, as my years number at six and twenty.

I'd wager that will have you at sixes and sevens.

The future does not belong to you alone.

Go ahead, explain how my supposed bigotry is now caused by my youth and inexperience.

originally posted by: queenofswords
So so sad. I hope this child survives whatever is done to him and becomes well-adjusted and happy in wherever Life takes him. I'm sure his parents mean well and just want him to be happy and free from his severe dysphoria. The others just want to rally around them and this child who will be changed forever to make them feel okay about it all.

I have read a lot about types of dysphoria recently, and the anxiety and depression mentioned in the OP regarding this child jumped out at me. It reminded me of the lady that believed she was really a blind person in a sighted body. She became so anxious and depressed that they finally surgically blinded her to relieve her dysphoria, and now she lives as a happy blind person. There are many stories out there like this.

In her story, she said her dysphoria began when she wasn't much bigger than a toddler.

What is happening to some of these children at that early stage of their little life that causes so much distress to their natural identity? I don't know, but I think some serious research needs to be done about it.

Thank you for your good thoughts for the well being of this and other transgender children.

I would like to raise a point with your story about a person with BDD wanting to be blind. Granted, BDD (Body Dysmorphic Disorder) is similar and dysphoria of any sort can be a painful and miserable condition but there is a distinct difference between BDD and gender dysphoria.

In a person with severe gender dysphoria directed toward their body, their genitals are not only unwanted but unused as well. The last thing on earth a biological male transsexual person would want would be to have their genitals touched, exposed or acknowledged. They are useless appendages that serve no purpose except to prevent normal sexual relations with a partner. SRS, sex reassignment surgery turns the non-functional into the functional,

Blinding or performing an amputation on a person with BDD, which is considered a pathological disorder because the desire is to take something functional and make it non-functional.

See the difference?

a reply to: Freija

Going to start calling you Mary Lou Retton. That was some gold medal gymnastics. So one is ok because it is corrective (in your opinion) while the other is destructive? How about the commonality that their perceptions are not in line with reality?

originally posted by: pompel9

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: 123143
One must question the wisdom of permitting a child to decide its future at so young an age.

At 6 years old, no surgery is performed, no irreversible drugs are taken, so I'm not sure what you are talking about. How about the wisdom of keeping a child from being suicidal? Does that work for ya?

The OP says the child has transitioned (as in surgery). Is the OP false?

Surgery?! Are you serious?

I think that's the major disconnect and confusion here. It seems many of you think that trans kids are getting surgeries and hormones at six. Is that what is going on here? People are actually thinking this?

A transgender child gets nothing but counseling and therapy. When they are in puberty, they take a blocker which does nothing but delay their puberty (again, nothing permanent). When a bit older, they may start taking the corresponding hormone if their physicians determine that this is truly the issue. An actual surgery does not happen until much later, if at all.

I wonder how much of this outrage is because of this misunderstanding.

a reply to: Abysha

Well as Freija has pointed out the totally non-biased WPATH (heavy sarcasm) says that is the only treatment. So now you are arguing with WPATH or are you trying to minimize because the implication is that the child is being pressured into "transitioning"?

ETA : Delaying puberty? Seems like a modern form of foot binding but what do I know.

originally posted by: VictoriaCromwell
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Every society from time immemorial has been damned by their progeny, ours is no different.

I may be a relic, but so will you all.

Of course I'm going to get old at some point. I'm not afraid of it or anything. Though I don't think I will close my mind to new ideas as I get older. I like being open minded to new ideas as they come along.

As for Bob Dylan, that song was written by a boomer for the boomers.

Are they still considered to be "with it, man"? Lastly, a song for you.

Well the times never stopped changing. Though if you are questioning if my taste in music is out of date this is the wrong thread for that.

Or perhaps this time is something special, the end of history. We shall be happy and gay rejoicing our progress until the end of days.

Could be, but all rational discourse has left that station a LONG time ago.

originally posted by: Freija

originally posted by: hutch622
I call bull#e . Really 6 years old . Get back to me when HE is 20 .

So, were you 20 before you knew if you were a boy or a girl? I'm guessing that by 6 years old, you had that pretty well figured out? Amiright?

BEleive it or not, everyone figured it out by the fact I had a penis and the fact I had XY chromosomes.

a reply to: Freija

In a person with severe gender dysphoria directed toward their body, their genitals are not only unwanted but unused as well. The last thing on earth a biological male transsexual person would want would be to have their genitals touched, exposed or acknowledged. They are useless appendages that serve no purpose except to prevent normal sexual relations with a partner. SRS, sex reassignment surgery turns the non-functional into the functional,

Thanks, Freija. Children are my soft spot and it really hurts me to think that a child is suffering so severely from a psychological condition that causes him/her to hate a part of his/her body to the point he/she feels that it is useless and disgusting.

I really do think it is the same thing as BIID, but because of sociological pressures from certain groups, we are being conditioned to think differently in order to help these people transition into a happy normal life. They should have a happy normal life, but I would hope that we can put political correctness aside and continue to do more research in what is happening to children at this stage of development that makes them reject their natural bodies.

Meanwhile, those that are going through this painful transformation do not need to be stigmatized.

The issue for me isn't whether "Trans-Gender" is a real thing or not. I simply don't care.

But I DO care about labeling CHILDREN that BEFORE their sexuality or identity is even HALF WAY developed.

I've known women from school who were total and complete TomBoys, who wanted nothing to do with girl stuff, who literally acted like boys themselves and only hung around the boys, and grew up to be feminine straight child bearing HAPPY Women.

You can't decide by SIX what your belief is.

originally posted by: pompel9
The OP says the child has transitioned (as in surgery). Is the OP false?

The child that was once known as a boy, had a boys haircut and wore boys clothes "transitioned" to being a girl with a girls name, girls clothes and if it hasn't grown out already a girls haircut. This child will be raised as a girl, socialized as a girl and probably do girl things and have girls for friends.

That's it.

If John's life is happier and more satisfactory as Jane and her feelings haven't changed, prior to starting puberty at 11 or so maybe, Jane can be put on medication that will prevent her body from undergoing the changes that come with male puberty such as facial hair, deep voice and musculature which would cause any girl a great huge mad ball of emotional and psychological stress as you could imagine. This also buys a child up to a couple of years to mature more emotionally and for the families and medical professionals to continue their evaluation and counseling.

If for some reason that Jane at 14 or 15 decides she really would be better off and happier as a boy, which very rarely if ever happens at this stage, the puberty blocking drugs can be discontinued and her body will proceed with normal male puberty and she will socially transition back to being John. That's kind of the simplified version.

If at 14 or 15, there's no way in hell Jane would ever want to be a boy, she's probably going to be strongly wanting to develop the female physical characteristics of her friends and peers that already have a head start on her. She will begin hormone treatments with estrogen to develop the normal female secondary sex attributes all the while under the care of knowledgeable medical professionals. Normally at 18 and occasionally a year or so earlier depending on circumstances, Jane will undergo SRS enabling her to sexually function as a female and proceed to live a normal life as a regular woman.

That's basically how it works for these kids. That doesn't help you to understand the why of it all but should give you a better understanding of the hows.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Tomboy != transgendered

My cousin used to be a tomboy as a kid, but at no point did I ever hear her say that she secretly felt like a man.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Tomboy != transgendered

My cousin used to be a tomboy as a kid, but at no point did I ever hear her say that she secretly felt like a man.

I am demonstrating that kids FEEL and IDENTIFY with certain things that are masculine and feminine traditionally.

For a SIX YEAR old to say "I feel like a man" is hardly a LIFELONG admission of being "Trans-Gendered"

Sentence your kid to a lifetime based on a feeling, when their GENES and BIOLOGY and BRAIN aren't even developed yet?

originally posted by: Iamnotadoctor
I did say I was going to cease indulging in this idiotic thread, but I just could not help calling you out for having the nerve to include an ATS member's username (and yes, we all know who you were referring to) who has not made ANY comments in this thread.
Shame on you.

Maybe the reason that she has not made any comments is that she is no longer a member here.

Just sayin'.

I thought girls had "Peepees" too, at SIX YEARS OLD. I also thought kissing them would make them have a baby. I also thought they pooped differently than boys.

SIX....

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Tomboy != transgendered

My cousin used to be a tomboy as a kid, but at no point did I ever hear her say that she secretly felt like a man.

I am demonstrating that kids FEEL and IDENTIFY with certain things that are masculine and feminine traditionally.

And I'm saying that a six year old or child saying they are transgendered isn't the same thing as a tomboy. Tomboyishness is a phase. Gender Dysphoria is MUCH more complicated and isn't just a phase.

For a SIX YEAR old to say "I feel like a man" is hardly a LIFELONG admission of being "Trans-Gendered"

Sentence your kid to a lifetime based on a feeling, when their GENES and BIOLOGY and BRAIN aren't even developed yet?

As has been shown by Freja, no one is being "sentenced" to anything. There is a LONG process that must be completed. It's not like at the age of 6 they start whacking off your penis or anything. There are considerations made for the child in case it really WAS a phase and the child grows out of it.