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Community rallies behind 6-year-old transgender girl

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posted on Dec, 12 2015 @ 09:08 AM
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Sarcasm.

The position of having no valid argument.




posted on Dec, 12 2015 @ 11:52 AM
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originally posted by: NihilistSanta
a reply to: Freija

It was sarcasm. You were the one hinting at golden days. I have to spell everything out for you apparently.


Apparently.

So, Santa, in all your infinite wisdom, what would your course of action be if by chance YOU ended up with a transgender child? Let's take the typical scenario where you start noticing behavioral things, preferences and verbalizations when your little Santa Jr. is around three. At four and five, in spite of your most diligent efforts to enforce gender conformity either by example, coercion, shaming, punishment or even verbal or physical abuse, Santa Jr. is still absolutely insistent about really being a girl.

Your family is in turmoil. Santa Jr. has been brow beaten to the point of hating life, hating you, has become sullen and withdrawn, uncooperative, angry and extremely depressed and melancholy. You've never seen a kid this young be so miserable and in so much emotional distress and you still can't figure out after everything you've tried to do why Jr. keeps insisting about being a girl and not a boy. You recognize your kid is in some serious trouble.

So, Dad, what's the plan for 5/6/7 year old Jr. here? Can't happen to you? I am sure that's what all parents say so let's hear how you would handle this?
edit on 12/12/2015 by Freija because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 14 2015 @ 07:29 AM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: pompel9

Cross-dressing is when someone doesn't want to permanently change their gender - they just like dressing in the other gender's clothing.

This kid identifies as the other gender completely, but because she is only 6, the transition will be done in stages. First stage: look like the identified gender on the surface with clothing and hair, along with a name change. If she still wants to, the next step at puberty age will be to take the reversible puberty blockers to give her more time to think about it before the irreversible changes of puberty happen. By about 16, if she still wants it, she can take female hormones to enhance her femininity. Then by 18, if she still wants it, she can have the surgery.

Does that make sense?


That contradicts the op. But, yes that makes more sense.
edit on 14-12-2015 by pompel9 because: typo



posted on Dec, 14 2015 @ 07:36 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: pompel9

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: pompel9

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: pompel9

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: pompel9

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: pompel9

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: 123143
One must question the wisdom of permitting a child to decide its future at so young an age.


At 6 years old, no surgery is performed, no irreversible drugs are taken, so I'm not sure what you are talking about. How about the wisdom of keeping a child from being suicidal? Does that work for ya?


The OP says the child has transitioned (as in surgery). Is the OP false?


Surgery?! Are you serious?

I think that's the major disconnect and confusion here. It seems many of you think that trans kids are getting surgeries and hormones at six. Is that what is going on here? People are actually thinking this?

A transgender child gets nothing but counseling and therapy. When they are in puberty, they take a blocker which does nothing but delay their puberty (again, nothing permanent). When a bit older, they may start taking the corresponding hormone if their physicians determine that this is truly the issue. An actual surgery does not happen until much later, if at all.

I wonder how much of this outrage is because of this misunderstanding.


So the OP is misleading, and the child has not gone trough surgery?


No. What is it about the OP states that she went through a surgery?


Did you notice this sentence in the OP:

Mount Horeb, WI -- Mount Horeb Primary Center, a public elementary school where a 6-year-old student had just transitioned from a boy to a girl.


What part of "transitioned" makes you think surgery? At that age since there aren't any secondary sex characteristics on the body, it is easy to pass off as the opposite gender. Transitioning is as easy as changing clothes in this regard.


That is not transitioning. That is cross-dressing. The boy has not transitioned to a girl, because that requires surgery.


Well that was an over simplification. First off, transitioning is a process that takes years. In the case of a 6 year, it is a process that won't start the physical aspects until they are a teenager or later. But yes, at the age of six the act of transitioning is literally just changing your clothes. Oh and adopting an opposite gender name as well I guess.


That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. So when I state that it is cross-dressing then it's oversimplified?
You say that transitioning takes years. How can a boy then have transitioned to a girl at age 6?
And then you say in direct contradiction to your earlier statement (in the same post) that all it takes to transition is to put on clothes from the opposite sex and changing the name to fit the new gender?


Actually at the age of 6 the child would still be transitioning. It wouldn't be past tense at that point.


The OP clearly states that the boy has transitioned to a girl at the age of 6. If the OP had said that she is transitioning, then that would have been a different discussion.



posted on Dec, 14 2015 @ 08:04 AM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: NihilistSanta
a reply to: Annee

That is basically confirmation bias you are supporting. Real science should be impartial. Obviously it is no surprise you are in favor of biased scientific outcomes.


No it's not.

I have an accumulation of 20+ years of following LGBT research. I took an interest because of a friend.

After awhile, you learn "who's who". You learn who's "straight up" in assessing new info. You learn what/who has been debunked.

However, NO ONE knows what it is to be and experience Transgender except a Transgender.

To say input from a Transgender is bias is a ridiculous position of argument. What it is, is the only accurate source of what it is to be Transgender.

Science still doesn't know exactly why some people are Left Handed. Must be a mental issue.



Actually, they have found out why: www.sciencealert.com...

Couldn't find the link to the actual science report (was not in the article, as far as I could tell).

Either way, this is way off-topic. So my apologies to the OP.



posted on Dec, 14 2015 @ 09:35 AM
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originally posted by: pompel9

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: NihilistSanta
a reply to: Annee

That is basically confirmation bias you are supporting. Real science should be impartial. Obviously it is no surprise you are in favor of biased scientific outcomes.


No it's not.

I have an accumulation of 20+ years of following LGBT research. I took an interest because of a friend.

After awhile, you learn "who's who". You learn who's "straight up" in assessing new info. You learn what/who has been debunked.

However, NO ONE knows what it is to be and experience Transgender except a Transgender.

To say input from a Transgender is bias is a ridiculous position of argument. What it is, is the only accurate source of what it is to be Transgender.

Science still doesn't know exactly why some people are Left Handed. Must be a mental issue.



Actually, they have found out why: www.sciencealert.com...

Couldn't find the link to the actual science report (was not in the article, as far as I could tell).

Either way, this is way off-topic. So my apologies to the OP.


I am fully aware of what has been found in regards to Left Handedness.

Kind of like sexual orientation and transgender ---- there are indicators ---- there is a beginning of where to go next---- but, full knowledge is still not there.



posted on Dec, 14 2015 @ 09:42 AM
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originally posted by: pompel9

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: pompel9

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: pompel9

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: pompel9

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: pompel9

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: pompel9

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: 123143
One must question the wisdom of permitting a child to decide its future at so young an age.


At 6 years old, no surgery is performed, no irreversible drugs are taken, so I'm not sure what you are talking about. How about the wisdom of keeping a child from being suicidal? Does that work for ya?


The OP says the child has transitioned (as in surgery). Is the OP false?


Surgery?! Are you serious?

I think that's the major disconnect and confusion here. It seems many of you think that trans kids are getting surgeries and hormones at six. Is that what is going on here? People are actually thinking this?

A transgender child gets nothing but counseling and therapy. When they are in puberty, they take a blocker which does nothing but delay their puberty (again, nothing permanent). When a bit older, they may start taking the corresponding hormone if their physicians determine that this is truly the issue. An actual surgery does not happen until much later, if at all.

I wonder how much of this outrage is because of this misunderstanding.


So the OP is misleading, and the child has not gone trough surgery?


No. What is it about the OP states that she went through a surgery?


Did you notice this sentence in the OP:

Mount Horeb, WI -- Mount Horeb Primary Center, a public elementary school where a 6-year-old student had just transitioned from a boy to a girl.


What part of "transitioned" makes you think surgery? At that age since there aren't any secondary sex characteristics on the body, it is easy to pass off as the opposite gender. Transitioning is as easy as changing clothes in this regard.


That is not transitioning. That is cross-dressing. The boy has not transitioned to a girl, because that requires surgery.


Well that was an over simplification. First off, transitioning is a process that takes years. In the case of a 6 year, it is a process that won't start the physical aspects until they are a teenager or later. But yes, at the age of six the act of transitioning is literally just changing your clothes. Oh and adopting an opposite gender name as well I guess.


That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. So when I state that it is cross-dressing then it's oversimplified?
You say that transitioning takes years. How can a boy then have transitioned to a girl at age 6?
And then you say in direct contradiction to your earlier statement (in the same post) that all it takes to transition is to put on clothes from the opposite sex and changing the name to fit the new gender?


Actually at the age of 6 the child would still be transitioning. It wouldn't be past tense at that point.


The OP clearly states that the boy has transitioned to a girl at the age of 6. If the OP had said that she is transitioning, then that would have been a different discussion.


Sometimes common sense is needed.

in this case transitioned simply means dressing, living as the opposite gender.

Some poster want to jump to "ridiculous" that it means drugs and surgery.



posted on Dec, 14 2015 @ 10:04 AM
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a reply to: pompel9

Well the OP is either wrong or misquoted. Why does it matter so much to you exactly about the exact tense of this word? It's been explained to you that no surgery was involved here so nothing for you to worry about regardless of the correct usage of the word "transition".



posted on Dec, 14 2015 @ 10:43 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: pompel9

Well the OP is either wrong or misquoted. Why does it matter so much to you exactly about the exact tense of this word? It's been explained to you that no surgery was involved here so nothing for you to worry about regardless of the correct usage of the word "transition".


So now it is transition, you have stated earlier that the boy has just put on girl cloths and changed his name to a girls name. You have said he has transitioned and you have said he is transitioning. It would be nice if you made up your mind.

I have actually quoted the OP two times. You and one other member has chosen to speak on behalf of the OP. Either you have some PM's going, or you are just guessing what the OP meant.



posted on Dec, 14 2015 @ 10:47 AM
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a reply to: pompel9

I actually don't care what tense is used. I'm not hung up on silly semantics like that. You didn't answer my question. Why is the tense so important to you? We both know what happened at this point, so splitting hairs over the appropriate tense to use in this situation is silly and pedantic.



posted on Dec, 14 2015 @ 10:48 AM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: pompel9

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: pompel9

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: pompel9

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: pompel9

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: pompel9

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: pompel9

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: 123143
One must question the wisdom of permitting a child to decide its future at so young an age.


At 6 years old, no surgery is performed, no irreversible drugs are taken, so I'm not sure what you are talking about. How about the wisdom of keeping a child from being suicidal? Does that work for ya?


The OP says the child has transitioned (as in surgery). Is the OP false?


Surgery?! Are you serious?

I think that's the major disconnect and confusion here. It seems many of you think that trans kids are getting surgeries and hormones at six. Is that what is going on here? People are actually thinking this?

A transgender child gets nothing but counseling and therapy. When they are in puberty, they take a blocker which does nothing but delay their puberty (again, nothing permanent). When a bit older, they may start taking the corresponding hormone if their physicians determine that this is truly the issue. An actual surgery does not happen until much later, if at all.

I wonder how much of this outrage is because of this misunderstanding.


So the OP is misleading, and the child has not gone trough surgery?


No. What is it about the OP states that she went through a surgery?


Did you notice this sentence in the OP:

Mount Horeb, WI -- Mount Horeb Primary Center, a public elementary school where a 6-year-old student had just transitioned from a boy to a girl.


What part of "transitioned" makes you think surgery? At that age since there aren't any secondary sex characteristics on the body, it is easy to pass off as the opposite gender. Transitioning is as easy as changing clothes in this regard.


That is not transitioning. That is cross-dressing. The boy has not transitioned to a girl, because that requires surgery.


Well that was an over simplification. First off, transitioning is a process that takes years. In the case of a 6 year, it is a process that won't start the physical aspects until they are a teenager or later. But yes, at the age of six the act of transitioning is literally just changing your clothes. Oh and adopting an opposite gender name as well I guess.


That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. So when I state that it is cross-dressing then it's oversimplified?
You say that transitioning takes years. How can a boy then have transitioned to a girl at age 6?
And then you say in direct contradiction to your earlier statement (in the same post) that all it takes to transition is to put on clothes from the opposite sex and changing the name to fit the new gender?


Actually at the age of 6 the child would still be transitioning. It wouldn't be past tense at that point.


The OP clearly states that the boy has transitioned to a girl at the age of 6. If the OP had said that she is transitioning, then that would have been a different discussion.


Sometimes common sense is needed.

in this case transitioned simply means dressing, living as the opposite gender.

Some poster want to jump to "ridiculous" that it means drugs and surgery.



You are allowed to have your opinion. That is all I have to say until you respond in a mature manner.



posted on Dec, 14 2015 @ 11:03 AM
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originally posted by: pompel9

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: pompel9

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: pompel9

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: pompel9

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: pompel9

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: pompel9

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: pompel9

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: 123143
One must question the wisdom of permitting a child to decide its future at so young an age.


At 6 years old, no surgery is performed, no irreversible drugs are taken, so I'm not sure what you are talking about. How about the wisdom of keeping a child from being suicidal? Does that work for ya?


The OP says the child has transitioned (as in surgery). Is the OP false?


Surgery?! Are you serious?

I think that's the major disconnect and confusion here. It seems many of you think that trans kids are getting surgeries and hormones at six. Is that what is going on here? People are actually thinking this?

A transgender child gets nothing but counseling and therapy. When they are in puberty, they take a blocker which does nothing but delay their puberty (again, nothing permanent). When a bit older, they may start taking the corresponding hormone if their physicians determine that this is truly the issue. An actual surgery does not happen until much later, if at all.

I wonder how much of this outrage is because of this misunderstanding.


So the OP is misleading, and the child has not gone trough surgery?


No. What is it about the OP states that she went through a surgery?


Did you notice this sentence in the OP:

Mount Horeb, WI -- Mount Horeb Primary Center, a public elementary school where a 6-year-old student had just transitioned from a boy to a girl.


What part of "transitioned" makes you think surgery? At that age since there aren't any secondary sex characteristics on the body, it is easy to pass off as the opposite gender. Transitioning is as easy as changing clothes in this regard.


That is not transitioning. That is cross-dressing. The boy has not transitioned to a girl, because that requires surgery.


Well that was an over simplification. First off, transitioning is a process that takes years. In the case of a 6 year, it is a process that won't start the physical aspects until they are a teenager or later. But yes, at the age of six the act of transitioning is literally just changing your clothes. Oh and adopting an opposite gender name as well I guess.


That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. So when I state that it is cross-dressing then it's oversimplified?
You say that transitioning takes years. How can a boy then have transitioned to a girl at age 6?
And then you say in direct contradiction to your earlier statement (in the same post) that all it takes to transition is to put on clothes from the opposite sex and changing the name to fit the new gender?


Actually at the age of 6 the child would still be transitioning. It wouldn't be past tense at that point.


The OP clearly states that the boy has transitioned to a girl at the age of 6. If the OP had said that she is transitioning, then that would have been a different discussion.


Sometimes common sense is needed.

in this case transitioned simply means dressing, living as the opposite gender.

Some poster want to jump to "ridiculous" that it means drugs and surgery.



You are allowed to have your opinion. That is all I have to say until you respond in a mature manner.


LOL


Three simple statements offends you? Seriously?

edit on 14-12-2015 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 14 2015 @ 03:24 PM
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a reply to: pompel9

It goes against my better judgment and desires to waste any more bandwidth responding to you about this when by all appearances you are intentionally being obtuse. I'll give it one more shot and if you can't get beyond the trivial use of a word or see how it is sometimes used ambiguously by some with different or similar meanings, then there is no hope and you'll just have to deal with the frustration of not being able to keep up with this topic on your own.

At the basic level, when we say a 6 year old transgender child has "transitioned", we are talking about the social change in identity - from being known as a boy to being known as a girl. To the outside world, little Tommy is now little Tammy and little Tammy is going to look like and do all the things other little girls do. She has transitioned from being known and perceived as the boy named Tommy to the girl named Tammy. I don't know what other word you could use to describe this change other than a transition and if you are fixated on the status of a pre-pubescent child's genitals, seek help.

Should little Tammy, as she gets older proceed with hormone treatments and sex reassignment surgery at age 18, when she is an older adult and tells her story, she is going to say she transitioned when she was six because that's when she stopped being known as Tommy and became herself.

I should stop there and not further confuse the issue. If you still don't get it and are lost in semantics or are stuck on fixed definitions you looked up online or in a book, please U2U me for special handling.

Finally, to make accusations about some behind the scenes PM conspiracy going on to thwart your understanding of a word that only tangentially applies to the thrust of the discussion here is a bit paranoid and to demand treatment "in a mature manner" in a volatile thread where so much mudslinging and disparaging personal comments have been made and ignored or responded to in kind is somewhat of an amusing request.



posted on Dec, 15 2015 @ 03:23 AM
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==UPDATE==

In the OP, school board president, Mary Seidl was quoted as saying she:


expects the board will address the issue from a policy standpoint at Monday’s regularly scheduled meeting. She declined to speculate on the nature of any policy proposals, saying the agenda has not been set.

I have recently discovered the results of this meeting after the outpouring of community support for this little girl:


This week, the Mount Horeb School Board responded in turn, spending very little time debating new measures to accommodate transgender students throughout the district before passing them unanimously. The measures include access to restrooms and locker rooms in accordance with their gender identity. Though a few parents objected during the meeting’s open comment period, their concerns did not resonate with the board. Board member Peter Strube concluded the brief discussion by declaring, “Let the word go forth here and now that this board will stand united and we will not be intimidated and we will teach tolerance and will be accepting to everyone.”





posted on Dec, 15 2015 @ 12:02 PM
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The Scary Science at Johns Hopkins University



The name Johns Hopkins University connotes an institute of higher learning in medicine to most people. For those paying attention, it represents one of the most unapologetically transphobic institutions in America. JHU professors have headlined conferences on reparative therapy, cozied up with many Southern Poverty Law Center-certified hate groups, and taken money from the government to argue in court that transgender people don’t need medical care.

And then there was Dr. Paul McHugh of JHU, prominently displaying his JHU credentials in support of reparative therapy and anti-LGBT animus.

www.advocate.com...



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 12:18 AM
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a reply to: Annee

Yes more unbiased fact from you and your advocates. The pro camp is against Hopkins because they rely on agenda driven or funded research and they cant have real science get in the way of their shaming campaigns. Have you ever looked at unbiased sources on the issue? I forget your "friend" helps you put this into perspective but perhaps you need a new frame of reference.



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 12:32 AM
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originally posted by: NihilistSanta
a reply to: Annee

Have you ever looked at unbiased sources on the issue?


What would you consider an unbiased source? Someone you agree with?

If you mean have I read different perspectives, yes, I have. And researched who wrote them. And read reviews, discussions, and rebuttals.


I forget your "friend" helps you put this into perspective but perhaps you need a new frame of reference.


My friend?


edit on 17-12-2015 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 07:50 AM
link   

originally posted by: Freija
a reply to: pompel9

It goes against my better judgment and desires to waste any more bandwidth responding to you about this when by all appearances you are intentionally being obtuse. I'll give it one more shot and if you can't get beyond the trivial use of a word or see how it is sometimes used ambiguously by some with different or similar meanings, then there is no hope and you'll just have to deal with the frustration of not being able to keep up with this topic on your own.

At the basic level, when we say a 6 year old transgender child has "transitioned", we are talking about the social change in identity - from being known as a boy to being known as a girl. To the outside world, little Tommy is now little Tammy and little Tammy is going to look like and do all the things other little girls do. She has transitioned from being known and perceived as the boy named Tommy to the girl named Tammy. I don't know what other word you could use to describe this change other than a transition and if you are fixated on the status of a pre-pubescent child's genitals, seek help.

Should little Tammy, as she gets older proceed with hormone treatments and sex reassignment surgery at age 18, when she is an older adult and tells her story, she is going to say she transitioned when she was six because that's when she stopped being known as Tommy and became herself.

I should stop there and not further confuse the issue. If you still don't get it and are lost in semantics or are stuck on fixed definitions you looked up online or in a book, please U2U me for special handling.

Finally, to make accusations about some behind the scenes PM conspiracy going on to thwart your understanding of a word that only tangentially applies to the thrust of the discussion here is a bit paranoid and to demand treatment "in a mature manner" in a volatile thread where so much mudslinging and disparaging personal comments have been made and ignored or responded to in kind is somewhat of an amusing request.


Seems you are not interested in having a discussion. That is up to you.

You are the one that is obsessed with childrens genitals, not me. I am not the one that made this topic. So please do seek help yourself. In addition I suggest you get some anger management therapy. See, I can throw insults as well.

So your definition of this word trumps the official definition? That is not how things work.

That is what I believe. Based on the facts that you stopped replying to me, and soon after two other members started to reply to my replies to you.
Please dig up the imaginary mudslinging post(s) I have made? This is the only post I have attacked you, but that is because you attacked me first.



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 11:35 AM
link   
a reply to: pompel9

Is English your first or native language? That's the only way I can imagine the difficulties you are having with what I and others have tried to explain to you time and again. I am sorry if the repeated attempts have failed to get through to you or if they violate Pompel9's Rules of Language and sorry if my patience has been exhausted by your persistent side-tracking of this topic with your point of minutia and misunderstandings.

There are a lot of other threads on this board that I read and do not participate in either because I'm not versed in the subject and have nothing to contribute or the issues are too complicated to wrap my head around and communicate effectively about the subject. I'm of the strong impression that this thread of one of those for you?

So, in the limited scope of continuing this discussion trying to define the usage of the word "transition" for you, you are correct that I have no interest in pursuing it any further.



posted on Dec, 17 2015 @ 11:45 AM
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seems like children have to grow up as mental slaves giving into what others want for them until the day they turn 18 and are legally an adult. why do we do this to them? 18 years is a long time to finally have freedom if you ask me.



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