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More On Why The Bush Administration Shamefully Abandoned The Geneva Conventions...

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posted on Jan, 5 2005 @ 09:13 PM
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Well, according to the logic being applied here:



What terrorists?

(1) The war on terrorism is predicated on lies and fabrications; and

Mythical things cannot sign. Whats hard to understand about this?


There are no terrorists, except in our imagination. And since dreaming and fantasy is free, no harm, no foul.




posted on Jan, 5 2005 @ 09:20 PM
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Hate to tell you Marg, but in certain circumstances, I believe in the use of some methods that you would probably consider torture. The military is likely less harsh than I would be.

Regardless, the Democrats just don't want to see a conservitive minority in a position of power. That might encourage other minorities to lean to the right. Where would the Democrats be then, with no one buying the race and class warfare stratagies anymore?



posted on Jan, 5 2005 @ 09:30 PM
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Originally posted by Ambient Sound


Hate to tell you Marg, but in certain circumstances, I believe in the use of some methods that you would probably consider torture. The military is likely less harsh than I would be.



I don't know ambient sound, perhaps certain actions will merit certain responses, I for one will no have any qualm into torturing somebody that will harm a child in any sexual manner but is just me.

But the point is, as the administration gets away with new laws under the patriot act and the war on terror we the citizens of this country are going to be directly affected too.

Its not going to be long until we find ourself victims of all these laws, and having certain people in certain places is going to give leverage to the administration and its going to help it get away with it.



posted on Jan, 5 2005 @ 09:37 PM
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Silly, everyone knows terrorists have been around since the cave men, these terrorists have been around since 9/11, the fact that most of the terrorists on the FBI's list which was publisized 2 days after the attack were found later living in different countries and unaware of the "charges" doesnt mean anything to you? Didnt think so.
You dont believe it? Come on, you sound smarter than that.


Osama? Poor dead Osama, THE mastermind behind the attacks, where is he? He only pops up whenever this government needs his videos to terrorize or whenever an election would benefit grately from an appearance...
(dressed to kill, i might add)

Illusions work.
Illusions work
Illusions work




posted on Jan, 5 2005 @ 09:57 PM
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quote:
It is also important to note that these individuals will remain wanted in connection with their alleged crimes until such time as the charges are dropped or when credible physical evidence is obtained, which proves with 100% accuracy, that they are deceased.
endquote

www.fbi.gov...



posted on Jan, 5 2005 @ 11:23 PM
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I think it is important to set the record straight on several points. First of all, contrary to popular belief, Gonzales was not "the author of their torture authorization memos." And, moveon.org is dead wrong in stating that Gonzales []initiated and oversaw a process that ruled that GC rules do not apply to Gitmo detainees. The author of the August 2002 memo was Jay Bybee, not Alberto Gonzales.
msnbc.msn.com...

Anyone that has done a little research knows that the original notion that GC rules do not apply to enemy combatants first came about in the Reagan era. The only error Gonzales may have committed was relying on this previous interpretation.

As for Bush, his only mistake so far has been his failure to formulate an end-game for the Gitmo detainees, even though the currently accepted wisdom holds that they can be held as long as hostilities are ongoing.

Bush may very well declare that the detainees fate will be decided by a military tribunals starting in 2005. And then Poof! the entire incident will be forgotten.





posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 12:09 AM
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Folks, if a foriegn country came here and took over our infrastructure, bombed us into a third world state, and obliterated our military and you grabbed a gun to go fight, do you think they would refer you to a lawful combatant, or a terrorist? Hey why don't you have the Mossad sign treaties for the Alqeda interests? They were setting up alqueda cells in teh west bank, surely if they have the athority to establish these outfits, they could speak for them. Osama met with the CIA in an American Hospital in Dubai two weeks before 9-11, maybe they could have negotiated the definition of enemy combatants then. And what the hell does Iraq have to do with Alqueda, maybe they were the ones buying yellow cake uranium for Iraq? If Alqueda was such a threat, why did we turn down offeres of Bin Laden's extradition from Afghanistan, Syria, Jordan, etc. 300,000 terrorists now in Iraq the AOL news headline stated today, wow. I think they meant to say 300,000 really pissed off citizens of Iraq. These days, apparently it seems the loosely applied definition of a terrorist is anyone who actively stands in the way of american imperialism. These aren't terrorists that are fighting in the streets of Iraq, they are the citizens of a country we invaded (pre-emptively under false pretenses), you know the folks that actually own the land there.



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 06:10 AM
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Originally posted by twitchy
Folks, if a foriegn country came here and took over our infrastructure, bombed us into a third world state, and obliterated our military and you grabbed a gun to go fight, do you think they would refer you to a lawful combatant, or a terrorist?

Unlawful combatant (also illegal combatant or unprivileged combatant) describes a person who engages in combat without meeting the requirements for a lawful belligerent according to the laws of war as specified in the Third Geneva Convention. Countries that identify such unlawful combatants may not necessarily accord them the rights of prisoners of war described in the Third Geneva Convention, though they retain rights under the Fourth Geneva Convention in that they must be "treated with humanity and, in case of trial, shall not be deprived of the rights of fair and regular trial".
en.wikipedia.org...



If Alqueda was such a threat, why did we turn down offeres of Bin Laden's extradition from Afghanistan, Syria, Jordan, etc.

You'll have to ask Bill Clinton about that - he was the one who turned down offers of extradition because "UBL hadn't committed any crimes".


300,000 terrorists now in Iraq the AOL news headline stated today, wow. I think they meant to say 300,000 really pissed off citizens of Iraq. These days, apparently it seems the loosely applied definition of a terrorist is anyone who actively stands in the way of american imperialism. These aren't terrorists that are fighting in the streets of Iraq, they are the citizens of a country we invaded (pre-emptively under false pretenses), you know the folks that actually own the land there.

First off, your numbers are inflated by 50% - the latest figures being bandied about are 200,000 insurgents. And these include former members of Iraqi Intelligence as well as foreign terrorists. Not too many pissed-off law-abiding citizens included. Think about it - these "insurgents" are murdering their fellow Iraqi citizens every day - does that sound like the work of an angry neighborhood group to you?



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 06:20 AM
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The Geneva Garbage is a "TREATY" that must be signed between nations. It is not some "devine" law. Talk to these victims about the Geneva Convention:

Nick Berg

Paul Johnson

Eugene Armstrong

And 27 others who had their head "sawed" off slowly on TV.



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 07:44 AM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
The Geneva Garbage is a "TREATY" that must be signed between nations. It is not some "devine" law. Talk to these victims about the Geneva Convention:

Nick Berg

Paul Johnson

Eugene Armstrong

And 27 others who had their head "sawed" off slowly on TV.




Sorry Mr. Horacid as horrible as may seem these poor souls became the victims of Mr. Bush unjustified war in Iraq.

Remember "9/11, Bin laden, Tali ban and Al-queda = Afghanistan"

Iraq, false intelligent hasty invasion taking Saddam = Terrorist moved in.

Those people were victims of our administrations poor tactics.



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 08:00 AM
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How soon we forget. The war on terror is bigger than just 911. Saddam funded Hamas, he murdered millions of Muslims. He "bought" the UN.

No one "abandoned" the geneva BS. The GC is a treaty between nations, nothing more. Historically not one single enemy of the US has ever followed the GC. Not One. It is just smoke..................



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 08:22 AM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
How soon we forget. The war on terror is bigger than just 911. Saddam funded Hamas, he murdered millions of Muslims. He "bought" the UN.

No one "abandoned" the geneva BS. The GC is a treaty between nations, nothing more. Historically not one single enemy of the US has ever followed the GC. Not One. It is just smoke..................


Dr. When a nation that prides itself in been civilized and powerful abandon its policies it becomes as barbaric as the nations that is trying to bring democracy and civilization.

As sad as it may sound US has made Iraq a battle ground and has done an unjust deed to the people of that nation in the false pretenses of liberation.

Our administration has disregarded the people of Iraq to pursue whatever agenda it has in its mind, and while we are sitting here talking in safety and comfort the people in Iraq that has nothing to do with US and Saddam regime is suffering the results of poor tactics.

Iraq is a mess and no matter how many elections or killings will happened that country is beyond repair. It has as now plenty of willing fighters to give their life to take US out of their lands.

And that will come at the expenses of our soldiers and the Innocent lives of Iraqis caught in the middle.

This about power.



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 08:43 AM
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Originally posted by Ambient Sound
So, I guess you guys think it's a good idea to legitimize and honor these terrorist by calling them Soldiers.

Screw that. Geneva Conventions are reserved for real Soldiers who are fighting on behalf of their country under command of the legal government of that country. True Soldiers wear uniforms or insignia to mark them as Soldiers. True Soldiers don't hide in churches and then bitch when the church gets shelled. True Soldiers don't hide behind women and children, or use them as forced combatents. True Soldiers don't graphically behead civillians and then publish the footage on the internet.

Do these terrorist follow the Geneva Conventions?



my thoughts exactly on this. everything i have seen on other websites keeps referring to the fact that the geneva convention refers to a war with a true army and doesn't apply to terrorists..........

so i guess its going back to an eye for an eye???

the stuff that has been going on with the treatments of prisioners by US troops has probably occurred w/every war we've ever been involved in. nothing new..............the use of psyops has been present in every war.

with the age of the internet, imbedded reporters things are going to be surfacing continually.

i can't say what i would do if i were over there in combat and surrounded by potential terorists...............but i SUSPECT that if i were clearing a building and some of my fellow troops had been killed an hr or so earlier by someone pretending to be injured............that i would probably do the same thing the young marine did..........

i saw on another site that a marine that was in vietnam was discussing this same thing..............he said what are you to do?? they faced the vietcong strapping a grenade to a young child.......pulling the pin and sending the child running to the MARINES for help........

the man said............what do you do.......kill the child?? or wait for the child to kill us???

there are terribly hard choices to make when it comes to the field of combat......most of us out here chatting won't ever face those decisions.....
but you might find yourself SUPRISED to see what your actual reaction would be if you were walking in these guys boots!!!

in case you can't see I'M VERY PRO TROOPS. not necessarily our goverment but i totally support our troops in the trenches!!

just my piddly 2 cents worth.

angie



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 08:59 AM
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Remember everybody the term, insurgent and terrorist is the term US have given anybody that is fighting against US in the middle east, also remember US is in their lands we are not fighting in US soil.

So it comes to mind if the so call Insurgents and terrorist are actually the nationals of the countries in the middle east defending their lands from foreign invaders.

And actually as sad as it seems they have the right to fight invasion. The same way we would fight invasion in our own soil in the US.



[edit on 6-1-2005 by marg6043]



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 09:46 AM
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The folks who defend Bush and his corrupt bunch spout the same tired rhetoric that was programmed into their ridiculously simple minds. If they were to deny their cognitive dissonance, de-program and do the research that is clearly out there, they would see the FULL picture. So far, they only seem to be in possession of irrational hatreds and gross misconceptions fed to them by Bush's minions.

Al CIAda is our own creation. Understand that first, and you are on your way to knowing the truth.

Those who deny truth, fear it.



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 09:48 AM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
The Geneva Garbage is a "TREATY" that must be signed between nations. It is not some "devine" law. Talk to these victims about the Geneva Convention:


It is divine when it protects our own skins.


Nick Berg


Rummy's perverse little psy/op worked like a charm.



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043


And actually as sad as it seems they have the right to fight invasion. The same way we would fight invason in our own soil in the US.



How very difficult it is to put ourselves in their shoes.



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 09:52 AM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid

Originally posted by DrHoracid
The Geneva Garbage is a "TREATY" that must be signed between nations. It is not some "devine" law. Talk to these victims about the Geneva Convention:


It is divine when it protects our own skins.


Nick Berg


Rummy's perverse little psy/op worked like a charm.


Who has the closed mind? Are you saying Rummy and Bush sawed the heads off the victim? Was it GW, Rummy, and Cheney, with the masks on?



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 09:57 AM
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I'm saying it was probably Rummy and/or Wolfowitz's sick idea. They've proven themselves to be quite supportive of the black arts. And they havn't exactly been quiet about that support. Bush probably doesn't know half of the half of it. He's a knob and can't be trusted with any vital information.



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 10:07 AM
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Originally posted by dgtempe
What terrorists? the ones we created and breathed life into?

The ones we awakened with the bogus war?


"WE" did nothing of the sort. all our country's policy has done is unify them against us. and for good reason. now we have an army to fight, of course, they are hard to find, but they are a more well-established entity than they were before. they are identifyable.



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