NYT: Americans With Assault Rifles Should 'Give Them Up For The Good Of Their Fellow Citizens'

So is this an assault rifile?


Is this?

the left in general was against the no fly list. But that was yesterday.

But that was yesterday
I had the world in my hands
But it's not the end of my world
Just a slight change of plans

That was yesterday
But today life goes on
No more hiding in yesterday
'Cause yesterday's gone

a reply to: ~Lucidity

Well, technically the one on the bottom is a sub-machine gun since it is .45ACP.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Mmhmm. Technically.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

Sure. And all other types of deaths by firearms. BY FIREARMS.

The suicide numbers are included to purposefully conflate the figures. If someone wants to kill themselves why differentiate how they achieve their lofty purpose?

Well, you'd be surprised how hard it is to kill yourself using other methods. But a gun - that's almost always a sure kill. Also, a death by firearms is a death by firearms and we're not talking 3000 as was suggested - we're talking TENFOLD. Now, who's conflating the figures here?

a reply to: ~Lucidity

And you have stumbled on to the problem with calling anything an assault weapon. There is no actual gun called assault rifle. Usually, for political purposes, the definition is confined to cosmetic features or to weapons called semi-automatics which people who don't anything about guns conflate with fully automatic weapons which are already either illegal or so severely restricted that they might as well be illegal.

And then to make semi-automatics illegal is to make nearly every existing firearms illegal from handguns on up to long guns. Because semi-auto is the preferred make these days for most guns.

And the use aesthetic characteristics is to ignore that the infamous AR-15 that looks big, mean and completely military in one look can also look exactly like a hunting rifle in another set of "dress" with absolutely no change in how the actual weapon itself performs.

a reply to: ForteanOrg

So if someone wants to die, you don't want to let them go?

Who are you to make that choice? Or is it just death by guns you don't like no matter what the circumstance behind it?

Because you understand that sometimes surviving a botched suicide is worse than having attempted it in the first place ... look at Lamar Odom.

a reply to: ~Lucidity

No. Its what's called 'bump firing'. Its not of any real practical use, aside from a good way to waste ammunition, and takes some practice to even learn how to do it. In the bottom vid, they're using a stock that makes it somewhat easier.

If that's such a problem, and I don't think its one that's actually proven to be so in terms of a record of crimes rather than 'what ifs', then you ban bump fire stocks, as well as the old traditional manner of bump-firing.

I do not choose to be a common man. It is my right to be uncommon—if I can. I seek opportunity—not security. I do not wish to be a kept citizen, humbled and dulled by having the state look after me. I want to take the calculated risk; to dream and to build, to fail and to succeed. I refuse to barter incentive for a dole. I prefer the challenges of life to the guaranteed existence; the thrill of fulfillment to the stale calm of utopia. I will not trade freedom for beneficence nor my dignity for a handout. I will never cower before any master nor bend to any threat. It is my heritage to stand erect, proud and unafraid; to think and act for myself, enjoy the benefit of my creations, and to face the world boldly and say, this I have done. All this is what it means to be an American.

-Dean Aflange

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
Well, you'd be surprised how hard it is to kill yourself using other methods.

Who cares? Other than anti-gun rhetoric posters that is.

Also, a death by firearms is a death by firearms and we're not talking 3000 as was suggested - we're talking TENFOLD. Now, who's conflating the figures here?

It is only tenfold if you enjoy being disingenuous about that actual number and citing a figure that includes suicides.

a reply to: Grimpachi

www.nytimes.com...

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
Well, you'd be surprised how hard it is to kill yourself using other methods. But a gun - that's almost always a sure kill. Also, a death by firearms is a death by firearms and we're not talking 3000 as was suggested - we're talking TENFOLD. Now, who's conflating the figures here?

Maybe, maybe not. Here's the problem I have with conflating the suicide rates in with other forms of gun-related violence. The US suicide rate is NOT out of line with the rest of the world, even in western society. France has a higher suicide rate. So does Belgium. So does Japan. Those are just a few examples. Are guns the cause of all those suicides in those countries, too?

World suicide rates.

Just edited to add, I'd also point out that only a bit more than half of US suicides involve usage of a firearm.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: ForteanOrg

So if someone wants to die, you don't want to let them go?

If they really want to they will find a way. But most suicides are simply cries for help and so it should not be too easy to end your life on an impulse. Firearms are very efficient killing machines; taking them away makes it a lot harder to take your (or anybody elses) life.

No firearms = no deaths by firearms. It's that simple.

a reply to: buster2010

You do realize that almost any bullet can be called a "cop killer"? .270 - .308 - 30.06 - 223, etc all will penetrate a standard issue vest. They are meant to protect against handguns. But, I guess I shouldn't put idea in to your head, you'll be calling for us to hunt with slingshots.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
Firearms are very efficient killing machines; taking them away makes it a lot harder to take your (or anybody elses) life.

Is that so? Why is it that South Korea, with their restrictive gun policy, has a suicide rate tremendously higher than the United States?

a reply to: ForteanOrg

Ummm, and if someone wants to kill people, they will also kill people. Even if they don't have firearms readily available.

So what's the point again?

Do you really hate guns that badly? Or are you just afraid of them?

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

admit you like arguing this boring argument for arguments sake.

And you're here because........................??

a reply to: vor78

I'm aware of the tactics here: downplaying the fact that 30.000+ people die on US soil each year due to the almost unlimited availability of firearms. You pretend that suicides aren't deaths. They are in my book. I was triggered by the casual lies of one poster in here who claimed that "just" 3000 people died each year due to gun related violence. Firstly, 3000 deaths each year that can be avoided by restricting gun ownership is good enough for me. Go talk to the children, parents, friends of these 3000 if you don't want to take my word for it. Next, if you're in favour of guns, well, that's your choice. But don't lie about the consequences of being the worlds #1 gun-toting nation. There ARE roughly 30.000 deaths by firearms each year on US soil, it's a simple fact. Downplaying won't change it.

a reply to: ForteanOrg

And more people die every year due to the unlimited availability of motor vehicles, and those aren't even a constitutional right.

So if you're going to start in on the "if it would save even just one life ..." drum, don't you think you should go there first?

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

Sure. And all other types of deaths by firearms. BY FIREARMS.

The suicide numbers are included to purposefully conflate the figures. If someone wants to kill themselves why differentiate how they achieve their lofty purpose?

Well, you'd be surprised how hard it is to kill yourself using other methods. But a gun - that's almost always a sure kill. Also, a death by firearms is a death by firearms and we're not talking 3000 as was suggested - we're talking TENFOLD. Now, who's conflating the figures here?

And that is BS.
There are plenty of people that fail in suicide attempts with a firearm. They end up living the rest of their life missing half their face or paralyzed.

Now.... jump off a 10 story building and let me know how that goes. It is pretty foolproof, and you don't need any tools.