Man Uses Water Analogy To Explain The Issue People Have With Cops

originally posted by: ghostrager
a reply to: southernplayalistic

If your water is bad, it's probably the filter. But sometimes it's the water. The safest bet is to stop drinking it if it tastes funny. You don't have to digest what is fed to you.

yeah you dont have to drink it! its not like humans need water to live or anything! sheesh!

Lot of whining and complaining without coming up with a suitable, viable plan of action. What are you going to do about it? You know, besides complaining from behind your monitor...

I know many good policemen/women. They try their best but now they have to deal with idiots that interfere with them, shoving their smartphone in their face recording their every move...sometimes out of context. They are humans. They usually have families to go home to, or family that loves them. The ones I know do not have a superiority complex, they just want to do good and help people. They battle everything from idiots on the street, to depression, to ptsd, to people wanting to kill them just so you can be a little safer.

You don't like the way things are done. Sign up and change it from the inside. Quit whining though, it is extremely annoying.

originally posted by: superman2012

You don't like the way things are done. Sign up and change it from the inside. Quit whining though, it is extremely annoying.

Or they could just do their job correctly like they're supposed to or quit. Nobody makes them do that job. They chose it because that is what they want to do. If it's too hard or depressing or too many idiots then they can quit. But as long as they choose to do that job they need to do it within the limits of the law. Period.

My uncle was a cop his whole life as was my grandpa and they did it without being a dick about it or shooting people as their first instinct.

a reply to: mOjOm
Please tell me once where I said that they were allowed to be a dick. Or that they didn't have to do their job correctly.

My point was there are a bunch of no nothings that think they know how hard the job is. Lots of managers on ATS lately...

originally posted by: superman2012
Please tell me once where I said that they were allowed to be a dick. Or that they didn't have to do their job correctly.

My point was there are a bunch of no nothings that think they know how hard the job is. Lots of managers on ATS lately...

My post wasn't meant to be negative toward you or your post. But as far as fixing it from the inside and all that. We shouldn't have to infiltrate the system and fix it. When you get down to it, it's like any other institution. We have laws, policies, etc. to ensure it is run correctly. Like any other job if you can't do it or are not qualified you shouldn't have the job. I think most of the trouble with cops is that most hardly have any training it seems. They just take any idiot give him a badge and a gun and say "Go arrest people." Then there are the unofficial quotas which make them create arrests to rake in more money.

The whole system has gone rouge but since it's mainly against poor and powerless that it abuses nobody who can do anything gives a damn because they aren't being harmed by it. It's a predatory practice against the weakest in society.

a reply to: mOjOm
Sorry for the accusation.

That was my watered down point. It is the people in charge of hiring, training and firing of the bad apples that need to go. Why are they hiring them? Where did their training go wrong (if at all)? Why are these bad ones not being fired?

The good ones have to deal with a lot of crap because of a small percentage of idiots (or humans having too much power and having a bad day), I just have trouble with people saying that all police are bad and looking for a fight (not you).

a reply to: CraftBuilder

Three officers came along and demanded that I identify myself.

No offense, but why didn't you just show them your ID?


-dex

originally posted by: DexterRiley
No offense, but why didn't you just show them your ID?
-dex

Because you're a free person who's done nothing to warrant being stopped in exercising your freedom.

originally posted by: DexterRiley
a reply to: CraftBuilder

Three officers came along and demanded that I identify myself.

No offense, but why didn't you just show them your ID?


-dex

Because if we all just always do what they say then there might as well be no legal freedoms. Now I hope they will be a bit more careful about making illegal decisions when the next person crosses their path that they want to bully. I took one for the team. You can thank me by telling me why you are more disconcerted about me trying to preserve our rights than you are about so many officers deciding to be corrupt.

originally posted by: DexterRiley
a reply to: CraftBuilder

Three officers came along and demanded that I identify myself.

No offense, but why didn't you just show them your ID?


-dex

I was wondering the same. Could be as simple as a crime was committed and they happened to look like the known suspect. ID is there to prove who you are, it is a lot easier to show them your ID then to be dragged down to the police station to be held until your identity can be proven. Has nothing to do with freedom and more to do about serve and protect...

a reply to: superman2012
The point is, five police officers that night broke the law and I didn't. I don't know how you are missing that take away from this.

There are a lot of things that are easier to do. I can drive past a horrific car accident and not stop to help. I can not donate to a charity and spend my money on a new toy. I can buy junky food for my kids at a convenience store instead of cooking them real meals. I can sit on ATS and wine about how corrupt our government is getting instead of actively pursuing positive change.

I made a choice to stand by my LEGAL rights. It was not fun. It sucked. It was stressful. I didn't do it because it was the easy way out. I did it because there are real problems in our law enforcement community and I don't see it getting any better.

A very tenuous yet very important legal line has been drawn in order to protect our privacy. I intend too do my part to keep that line from inconspicuously shifting further away from our well being. It's ironic how there are so many ATS posts concerning the erosion of privacy, yet I get such strong objection to enforcing my legal privacy rights. It is also ironic considering how many times I've seen ATSer's quote this...

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
-Benjamin Franklin

Oh, and this... "Papers please!"

a reply to: CraftBuilder

Because if we all just always do what they say then there might as well be no legal freedoms. Now I hope they will be a bit more careful about making illegal decisions when the next person crosses their path that they want to bully. I took one for the team. You can thank me by telling me why you are more disconcerted about me trying to preserve our rights than you are about so many officers deciding to be corrupt.

First off let me say that I'm not necessarily criticizing your actions. You were the one there at the scene and I don't know all of the circumstances of the event.

Also let me tell you that I actually admire the fact that "you took one for the team" based on your beliefs. Many people espouse beliefs such as yours, but when the time comes for them to "put their money where their mouth is" they cave and just follow the easy path.

Having said that, I don't necessarily share your thoughts. I don't believe that the police are generally corrupt and criminal. As has been said quite often on this site, there are a few bad actors, but for the most part I think the vast majority are acting in good faith.

I am under the impression that in the US we are required to provide the police with identification if we are asked for it. I'm not sure about Canada, so perhaps their actions were illegal in your country. As for your corruption allegation, if they did indeed pilfer some of your belongings at the police station, then that adjective is applicable.

Now, given the information you have provided, I would likely have complied with the officer's demands for ID. They would probably have asked me a few standard questions about where I live and what I'm doing. I would answer them to the best of my ability and probably have even volunteered some additional information about the project I'm working on. Cops are human too, and I'm pretty sure they have interests outside of law enforcement. It's possible that they may be both impressed and interested.

If they had asked to search my belongings, I would be happy to show them a few things in my possession that would help to corroborate my story. But I would resist any attempt at an actual search of my bag or vehicle. There is a difference between a friendly legal interrogation and a fishing expedition.

At some point it becomes clear what their intentions are. And, if necessary, I can fall back into a "roadside Johnny Cockran" persona. If it looks like the encounter is going South, so to speak, I will immediately become more guarded in my responses.

I had this exact same experience recently when a county cop stopped me in front of my storage area at 1:00AM in the morning. He was friendly and I complied with his ID request and answered his standard interrogation questions. The event unfolded without incident. I could have caught a "case of the ass" and informed him that he was out of his jurisdiction and I didn't have to do squat that he asked, but there was no reason to escalate the situation. I also understood the reason for the stop because someone standing outside of a public storage building, that had been recently robbed, at 1:00AM in the morning should be considered a suspect.

To summarize, I would happily comply with their orders in as friendly and a professional manner as possible. But I know where to draw the line if the interrogation strays into uncomfortable territory.

-dex

You are 100% wrong about having to show your ID on demand in the US. Please educate yourself and protect your civil liberties.

I used to be like you with a rosy image of the police and wanting to be all cooperative and helpful. In Canada it is the RCMP with an image of professionalism, compassion and down right saintliness. Heck, I've been far more helpful to them than they could ever be to me. Trust me though, when it comes down to it, the door just doesn't swing both ways. I ended up in a career where I was dealing with them on a regular basis. Not many people interface with the police that way, outside of them responding to a compliant or handing out a ticket. Now I see what kind of person it takes to accept the declination required of their moral compass when one decides to join that fraternity. They've made their bed with me and they can sleep in it. They get Mr. Ass now. I don't care what interests they have, I will never volunteer information to them because carding is a new all time low for them. I only care that they stay far away from me, because they are truly dangerous.

a reply to: CraftBuilder

I ended up in a career where I was dealing with them on a regular basis. Not many people interface with the police that way, outside of them responding to a compliant or handing out a ticket. Now I see what kind of person it takes to accept the declination required of their moral compass when one decides to join that fraternity.

I like this: "declination required of their moral compass" I must say that you write quite eloquently.

Would you care to expound on your statement? As you say, my experience with LEO is based primarily on my experience with them in limited situations. In those few instances, I have not had any bad encounters. Apparently your experience is more extensive. I'd like to hear more of what you have to say.

-dex

a reply to: southernplayalistic

The tap water/ shower water in my apartments has a funky smell to it, probably sulfur.

That is terrible. My daughter and her boyfriend have to pour hydrogen peroxide down their well to get that sulfur smell to go away.