I had a chat conversation with a self described "moderate Muslim" and here it is

More moderates!

a reply to: Reverbs

Its how we restrict the information and dissemble information to our respective populations that's the problem.

"They" breed hated and discontent towards specific social demographics to suit the on ends and agendas. Our mass media networks pretty much tell us who to hate and/or mistrust at any given moment.

Sure, you can attempt to read between "There" lines and ascertain the truth pertaining to certain topics and subjects but that does nothing to change the fact that its essentially mind control for our masses.

End of the day our freedom is nothing more than an illusion.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Reverbs

Its how we restrict the information and dissemble information to our respective populations that's the problem.

"They" breed hated and discontent towards specific social demographics to suit the on ends and agendas. Our mass media networks pretty much tell us who to hate and/or mistrust at any given moment.

Sure, you can attempt to read between "There" lines and ascertain the truth pertaining to certain topics and subjects but that does nothing to change the fact that its essentially mind control for our masses.

End of the day our freedom is nothing more than an illusion.

Nothings changed. Age old situation. Whether the king, a priest, rabbi, cleric, sadu, or your Aunt Dorathy it doesn't matter. If you can't think you are easy to persuade. Philosophy is such an important evolutionary step we made in directing truth and fallacy. It's all but gone and even science is going stale because of it.

a reply to: luthier

Nope nothings really changed, the cards may be a little different but the game remains the same.

Same crap different century.

Science pretty much is our religion these days.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: luthier
Science pretty much is our religion these days.

Except it openly accepts criticism and rejection and changes its view depending on confirmed evidence.

Science isn't anything like religion.

a reply to: andy06shake

Don't concede.

My philosophy is I have time in my life to help.

My philosophy is I would kill a man who pulls a gun on me.

Can we fix this before we are all killers?

Yes.

My freedom is no illusion. It has allowed me to be me. I can show other's how to get here. I will. I do.

This is our choice.

I will always be a gangster for freedom and love.

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: luthier
Science pretty much is our religion these days.

Except it openly accepts criticism and rejection and changes its view depending on confirmed evidence.

Science isn't anything like religion.

Well that's not exactly true. Forbes just did a huge article on how often science lies and skews data in studies to skew results.

It can also be baught and sold by politicians and since the general public is illiterate scientifically speaking it is used to manipulate peoples opinions.

How many times does an article say a new study proves....then if you look hard for the study its of 350 people or something beyond the scope of a common persons discrimination.




PS and its not always that open to concede historically. It has to eventually but there is plenty of evidence of science kicking and screaming before it changed its theories.

Because that's human nature and ego

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: luthier
Science pretty much is our religion these days.

Except it openly accepts criticism and rejection

Really now? The epitaph "deniers" comes to mind.

changes its view depending on confirmed evidence.

Science isn't anything like religion.

No it doesnt. It just changes the data to fit the narrative.

a reply to: Ghost147

I think Science is very like a religion.

Science thinks Humans are special.

Science also casts out heretics and persecutes all other religions.

Science reveres Its own saints.

Science makes up stories to explain our origins.

I can keep drawing parallels and similaritys if you wish?

The difference being, with science it requires experimentation, and repetition of said experiments to gain credence and merit. All in all Science is rather synonymous with religion. It also requires faith.

a reply to: Reverbs

"Can we fix this before we are all killers? "

Looking at the things our respective nations perpetrate in our world just now. The fact that history seems to be repeating itself and our refusal to learn from our past mistakes, i really dont know if we can fix the situation.

a reply to: TechniXcality

Whoa! I had a conversation with a self described "moderate Muslim" yesterday too! She said she was probably going to call an electrician because one of the upstairs outlets wasn't working. She was even cleaning out her garage, which I may help with this weekend.

Is it time to call in the UN yet?

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Was there any point you were trying to make? or are you just saying asinine remarks just for the sake of it?

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Reverbs

"Can we fix this before we are all killers? "

Looking at the things our respective nations perpetrate in our world just now. The fact that history seems to be repeating itself and our refusal to learn from our past mistakes, i really dont know if we can fix the situation.

yea well I'm asking.
I was in the Army ready to kill and destroy.
I'd rather not go there.

Maybe we can short out the fuse.
And those with a short fuse won't have any power or gun powder to ignite.
If bridges, unite,
the worlds?

?

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Was there any point you were trying to make? or are you just saying asinine remarks just for the sake of it?

I'm pointing out that it's stupid to use a conversation with one person as "proof" of something about 1.6 billion people. But if it's ok to do that with one negative conversation, it's also ok to do that with a positive conversation.

Make sense now?

a reply to: enlightenedservant

See but i wasn't painting ALL Muslims you need to go back and read. This ALL Muslim rhetoric is a red herring you are attempting to pigeon hole me and its down right wrong. Once again since you missed it-- I can do a random pull, and this is the type of conversation that transpires; therefor we can draw a logical conclusion, that the occurrence of extremism is very prevalent among the Islamic believers, and furthermore because of that,a dialogue needs to be had on global scale as to circumvent and eradicate these belief systems and ideology, also any ideology that is extreme needs to be addressed as well.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: TechniXcality

Whoa! I had a conversation with a self described "moderate Muslim" yesterday too! She said she was probably going to call an electrician because one of the upstairs outlets wasn't working. She was even cleaning out her garage, which I may help with this weekend.

Is it time to call in the UN yet?

Have you ever been to a predominately Muslim country? I seriously doubt it and you certainly would not be having a conversation with a Muslim woman in her garage in most cases as a non Muslim without her husband. Turkey used to be different. Now it's getting stricter with Islamic law.

It would be extremely hard for you to defend the beliefs of 75 percent of Muslims most likely and would go against the principles of personal liberty the west values. Although there are plenty of conservative Hindu, Christians, Jews etc who do the same.

Muslims are some of the most devoute worshipers in the world. I actually appreciate and love the beauty of much of the faith. Hower the dark side that currently exists in the faith itself (Koran) not just extremism is too far against my beliefs of personal liberty to value the point of view to much. I had a great experience with Sufism and Qawali music in India but Sufis are a different kind of Muslim.

Muslims can alter the faith at any time just like Christians did to come out of the middle ages. Christians did and the majority of Jews have now it's the Muslims turn to buck off the social inequalities in their own societies. Ones that go far beyond the unspoken inequalities in most of the west.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: TechniXcality

Whoa! I had a conversation with a self described "moderate Muslim" yesterday too! She said she was probably going to call an electrician because one of the upstairs outlets wasn't working. She was even cleaning out her garage, which I may help with this weekend.

Is it time to call in the UN yet?

Have you ever been to a predominately Muslim country? I seriously doubt it and you certainly would not be having a conversation with a Muslim woman in her garage in most cases as a non Muslim without her husband. Turkey used to be different. Now it's getting stricter with Islamic law.

It would be extremely hard for you to defend the beliefs of 75 percent of Muslims most likely and would go against the principles of personal liberty the west values. Although there are plenty of conservative Hindu, Christians, Jews etc who do the same.

Muslims are some of the most devoute worshipers in the world. I actually appreciate and love the beauty of much of the faith. Hower the dark side that currently exists in the faith itself (Koran) not just extremism is too far against my beliefs of personal liberty to value the point of view to much. I had a great experience with Sufism and Qawali music in India but Sufis are a different kind of Muslim.

Muslims can alter the faith at any time just like Christians did to come out of the middle ages. Christians did and the majority of Jews have now it's the Muslims turn to buck off the social inequalities in their own societies. Ones that go far beyond the unspoken inequalities in most of the west.

I've traveled quite extensively, I've met Muslims from a ridiculous number of countries, and oh yeah, I'm an actual Muslim.

As for non-Muslims meeting with a Muslim woman in her garage. Yeah, how many Hindu men are going to let a stranger meet his wife in their garage? In fact, how many husbands anywhere and from any religious or ideological background are going to let a guy they don't know or approve of meet their wife in a garage? What kind of question was that?

a reply to: TechniXcality

You made it a point to make a reeeeeeeeally long OP about that one conversation. I made a point to make a short post about the double standard. That's not a red herring, it's pointing out that anyone can take an example from one person and use it to continue a narrative about an entire group. Perhaps I should talk with some random, self described "rational conservative" on Stormfront, then come here & make a thread about it. And when I'm called out on it, I could act like I didn't mean to reinforce the narrative about racist conservatives.

Now that I think about it, it wouldn't matter though. Even if there was indisputable proof that 99.9% of Muslims were peaceful & tolerant, you'd just complain about the 0.1% that aren't. Meh.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: TechniXcality

Whoa! I had a conversation with a self described "moderate Muslim" yesterday too! She said she was probably going to call an electrician because one of the upstairs outlets wasn't working. She was even cleaning out her garage, which I may help with this weekend.

Is it time to call in the UN yet?

Have you ever been to a predominately Muslim country? I seriously doubt it and you certainly would not be having a conversation with a Muslim woman in her garage in most cases as a non Muslim without her husband. Turkey used to be different. Now it's getting stricter with Islamic law.

It would be extremely hard for you to defend the beliefs of 75 percent of Muslims most likely and would go against the principles of personal liberty the west values. Although there are plenty of conservative Hindu, Christians, Jews etc who do the same.

Muslims are some of the most devoute worshipers in the world. I actually appreciate and love the beauty of much of the faith. Hower the dark side that currently exists in the faith itself (Koran) not just extremism is too far against my beliefs of personal liberty to value the point of view to much. I had a great experience with Sufism and Qawali music in India but Sufis are a different kind of Muslim.

Muslims can alter the faith at any time just like Christians did to come out of the middle ages. Christians did and the majority of Jews have now it's the Muslims turn to buck off the social inequalities in their own societies. Ones that go far beyond the unspoken inequalities in most of the west.

I've traveled quite extensively, I've met Muslims from a ridiculous number of countries, and oh yeah, I'm an actual Muslim.

As for non-Muslims meeting with a Muslim woman in her garage. Yeah, how many Hindu men are going to let a stranger meet his wife in their garage? In fact, how many husbands anywhere and from any religious or ideological background are going to let a guy they don't know or approve of meet their wife in a garage? What kind of question was that?

a reply to: TechniXcality

You made it a point to make a reeeeeeeeally long OP about that one conversation. I made a point to make a short post about the double standard. That's not a red herring, it's pointing out that anyone can take an example from one person and use it to continue a narrative about an entire group. Perhaps I should talk with some random, self described "rational conservative" on Stormfront, then come here & make a thread about it. And when I'm called out on it, I could act like I didn't mean to reinforce the narrative about racist conservatives.

Now that I think about it, it wouldn't matter though. Even if there was indisputable proof that 99.9% of Muslims were peaceful & tolerant, you'd just complain about the 0.1% that aren't. Meh.

I didn't say stranger I said non Muslim.

So as a Muslim how do you defend the treatment of woman in Islamic ruled countries? Which one has a good human rights record? There should be at least one right? Or is it your leadership that are the barbarians. If so just say so..

I was a competitive Judoka earlier in my life and competed all over including Abu Dhabi, Turkey. I also spent 6 months in India much of it near Pakistan and Sikahm. Also have travelled to Morroco and Egypt.

I also have Muslim friends. Most of them I call friends are completely against the way Islamic statehood /society is in the ME. Maybe that makes them not real Muslims but it certainly isn't OK for a country to have public executions by the state over religious superstition. Especially if you are all for "peace".

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Called out on it? Wow, this man is a OP(mod) on a IRC chat client that has nothing to do with religion, he said briefly he was Islamic in main so i engaged him in chat. The comparison with storm front fails, this truly is a random pull and this is what i came up with. What narrative? are you denying that extremism accounts for upwards of 28% of Muslim believers? What is the narrative that you see ? We have to deal with extremism whether it is Islamic or otherwise, however the numbers are staggering (in Islam) this is not some fake narrative this is a reality and if it offends you,then do not come after me, stand with me against extreme Islam or far-right-anything.

just in case you disagree with the 28% number:

Wikipedia:
link

A 2013 Pew Research Center poll asked Muslims around the world whether attacks on civilians were justified. Globally 72% of Muslims said violence against civilians is never justified, and in the US, 81% of Muslims opposed such violence. About 14% of Muslims in the nations surveyed (and 8% of Muslims in the US) said violence against civilians is "often" or "sometimes" justified. 26% of Muslims in Bangladesh believe attacks are either somewhat justified or often justified, 18% in Malaysia, 7% in Iraq, 15% in Jordan, 29% in Egypt, 39% in Afghanistan and 40% in the Palestinian territories.[30][31][32] The survey did not include some Muslim nations, such as Iran, Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Yemen, Syria, and Libya, but did include densely populated Muslim countries such as Pakistan, Turkey, Egypt, Nigeria and Indonesia.[33] According to a 2007 poll conducted by the PolicyExchange think tank in Britain, nearly 60% said they would prefer to live under British law, while 37% of 16- to 24-year-olds said they would prefer sharia law, against 17% of those over 55. Also, 36%[34] of 16- to 24-year-olds British Muslims believed that those converting to another religion should be executed. Less than a fifth of those over 55 think so.[35]

Stop arguing against me, stop talking about the peaceful majority, start talking about the extremists and how we can bridge this gap and eradicate such ideologies.

a reply to: luthier
a reply to: TheBulk

Yes, I am perfectly aware that science can be used improperly. The actions taken by a few scientists, and certainly by politicians, do not reflect what science is, it represents how man kind is easily swayed by self progression. Science, however, is merely a way we can study something. It has as much sway in philosophical claims as mathematics does.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Ghost147

I think Science is very like a religion.

Science thinks Humans are special.

How? Because we have a more developed brain? Yes, we are 'special' in that way. But, that doesn't mean we're the center of focus, or have a special purpose. We say that the Mantis shrimp is special too, because they have several unique mutations in their sight. We say that the Tardigrade is special too, because of it's ability to survive in vacuum of space; among a plethora of other fascinating adaptations.

I think you're viewing the word "special" in the wrong light.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Ghost147
Science also casts out heretics and persecutes all other religions.

Most scientists ARE religious. Science says nothing about religion at all because it's not a belief system. And the "heretics" are cast out because they had falsified their own claims in a malicious way. They aren't "cast out of the religion of science" they are simply defacing their own image and are then forth an untrustworthy source of information.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Ghost147
Science reveres Its own saints.

No. there are no 'saints' in science. We acknowledge accomplishments, and we recognize when a scientist accumulates a well rounded reputation by the successes of their research, but they aren't consider 'saints' in any way.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Ghost147
Science makes up stories to explain our origins.

We make observations that give evidence towards our origin. Nothing in science is considered absolute because all we have is our observations, which are subject to change among new evidence.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Ghost147
I can keep drawing parallels and similaritys if you wish?

I haven't seen you give a single trait that resembles the definition of a religion, in science.

A religion is a belief system. Religion seeks meaning and the answer to "why" the world is as we know it, based on the unquestioned assumption that such meaning and purpose exist.
Science searches for mechanisms and the answer to "how" the universe functions, with no appeal to higher purpose, without assuming the existence of such purpose.

Beliefs cannot be arbitrated to determine which is valid because there is no objective basis on which to compare one set of beliefs to another. Where as Science requires criticism, and it can receive criticism because the claims made within science are based off of observations and evidence. If there's new evidence discovered, that old claim will be rewritten to be more accurate thanks to that new evidence.

Religion claims absolute certainty

Science acknowledges that we cannot know anything for certain.

I can keep educating you on the contrast between the two, if you wish?

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Ghost147
The difference being, with science it requires experimentation, and repetition of said experiments to gain credence and merit. All in all Science is rather synonymous with religion. It also requires faith.

Religious faith, and faith that when 'something goes up, it will come down' are two different definitions of the word faith. I have faith that my next breath I take will be filled with air that my body can use to continue to survive. This terminology of 'faith' is not identical to 'religious faith', which is a belief not based on proof, and one that surrounds a belief system.