I had a chat conversation with a self described "moderate Muslim" and here it is

a reply to: IAMTAT

It's been fixed thank you mods!

a reply to: TechniXcality

Your opening post states you want peace and blah blah

so your solution is to present a radical person .. it's obvious what the intention is

When I asked my Muslim friend how do they feel about being portrayed the same way you do here .. he said to me ..

what can you do when a dog barks at you .. let them bark

a reply to: Layaly

You are acting as if I planned this in someway lol, this is a random person, had the conversation been different I would of shown it as well. The questions I asked were fair and I received the responses I was hoping I wouldn't, but fully expected to. That's all

a reply to: Layaly

I served in the Army with two Muslim guys. They rolled out carpets and used compasses to face the East. They prayed to Allah.
They were my brothers. I even learned some of the Qur'an from them. I would have given my life to save theirs. They the same.

I was best friends with a man named Pedjman from Iran who was in the Iranian Army. We shared Army stories and talked about physics and metaphysics.

It was when I learned Jesus was in the Qur'an...
There is some violence in these "holy" books.. A LOT..

So... What it comes down to is trying to make peace somehow.
Otherwise we all die. Or our hearts die. Either way we are dead.

Information and real world interaction of, just how loving humans can be, should be our sharpest tipped spear.

a reply to: TechniXcality

The questions helped facilitate a self fulfilling prophecy. You knew the answers wouldn't explain the quotes in a pretty picture. The same could be applied to all religions as you suggested.

a reply to: rossacus

Ok, those weren't the only questions posed (regarding verses) this person, is kind he is not rude some are already saying a presented a radical Muslims beliefs and that's fine I don't disagree. My point is, this is a random pull a random conversation with a Muslim man and this is the answers that are given and given freely because I asked. It's fair to draw some conclusions from this, 1. These beliefs are prevelant enough that I can ask a random person and garner these responses 2. I would have no problem breaking bread with this man as he is respectful and honest 3. We should be able to have this conversation without being labeled a bigot.

Attempts have already been made in this thread,to call me the extremist which is a very sad situation, basically among a group in society this conversation is inappropriate and we are not to draw conclusions, however that limits us from actually being able to bridge the gap, and while these people see themselves as peace loving they continue to further the divide and not allow for progress.

a reply to: TechniXcality

Omar sounds like Bernard. Literally.

Interesting and reflects many similar conversations I had.

Out of the woodwork come the usual excuses:

1. He is just on e crazy
2. Not all muslims...
3. He isn't very bright.

Thing is that if you make those excuses EVERY time yet another muslim fits the above criteria, you'll have one more to add to all the others. It slowly adds up to more than 'one'. And in my opinion ONE is sometimes too many as they can spread their [stupidity, craziness, belief] to others.

There is a fitting saying in German:

"Small animals also make dirt" [Kleinvieh macht auch mist].

Meaning that it doesn't HAVE to be all of something to bring problems. [Thought I'd better explain...]

a reply to: TechniXcality

I would understand if you stated that you are looking at this from a soldier's perspective result would be me labelling you overprotective and patriotic nothing wrong with that .. but in general .. the world needs to aim at eliminating this bs so boys like yourself don't have to suffer the *** you did

even if you looked at these people the same way you would look at a dangerous out of control animal .. civilised person should know better

I really don't know anymore
all I know is that this is not a fair approach so I reacted .. No one can change your mind so this is a pointless conversation

I don't want to send this reply but I need you to know where I am coming from.. I don't have a need to go against you

a reply to: Layaly

Layaly I respect your opinion and we have had conversations about this in-depth I was not trying to frame this in anyway the conversation transpired unplanned exactly as pasted. My point is these beliefs are common enough that a random pull garners these responses. Having said that, I do not look at this man as a dog I look at him as misguided if I have further conversations I will discuss that with him. In fact I wouldn't have a problem discussing this over dinner with this guy. You see he is not a "jihadist" he is an extremist and these beliefs must be changed for people or our cultures will be incompatible and we will continue to war and war. We essentially want the same things we just have different ways of getting there. This conversation is a worthy conversation and inorder to change anything it should be allowed to be discussed so that we can bridge the gap.

a reply to: TechniXcality

the fastest way to close the gap is to respect a point of view .. not pointing out how this point of view differs to the rest

if you truly wanted to close a gap you would focus on the things that you do have in common .. you could have chosen any other topic then religion to show proof we are only guns (mm autocorrect that was meant to be humans) with silly opinions and a weird outlook on life

anyway sorry I will zip it now

a reply to: Layaly

Bridging the gap requires eliminate ideas of world domination, and hateful ideologies,and discriminatory practices,how can we bridge this gap if this conversation is deemed inappropriate?

a reply to: TechniXcality
Wasn't questioning your integrity or agenda...far from it...just highlighting based on the proposed topic you were not gonna get the answers required to nullify preconceived notions on the religion, that's all.

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: Layaly

Bridging the gap requires eliminate ideas of world domination, and hateful ideologies,and discriminatory practices,how can we bridge this gap if this conversation is deemed inappropriate?

We need more conversations.

Hate and differences fall away the more we communicate.

On ATS I have learned to be community with people I disagree with.

Somewhere there is a good answer to all of this, but until then let's talk more.

We are wasting lives if we don't do it.

Thank you for the thread.

you won't change his mind the same way he won't change yours

and you are in a deadlock situation .. you have achieved absolutely nothing .. in an idealistic situation you bring in a mediator who will seek common ground .. but saying that is absolutely naive of me .. anyway I didn't want to provoke you

a reply to: TechniXcality

The shooter was a "moderate" according to everyone around him.

originally posted by: Layaly
a reply to: TechniXcality

U know the quote
Diversity is the only thing we have in common

next quote
a 'black' man and a 'white' man have fundamentally more in common then a 'white' man and a 'white' woman

next
why are u asking ats

If I wanted to be a b**** I would ask if native people had a choice to ask if they can coexist with our culture

The kind of diversity that legally degrades women?

The majority of Muslims follow the Koran pretty closely. I studied Sufism in my younger days and spent a good deal of time in India and south east Asia. There are plenty of moderates but they are not the majority.

Islam has some serious problems with the modern world. You can't hide behind diversity and peace and love when culturally the majority of the population believes in barbaric social constructs.

We have our fair share of problems and secret wars and intentions but most of the Muslim world and countries with Muslim law are extreme human rights violators.

Why do people want to protect these style beliefs. It isn't good for anyone. They should be held accountable for their beliefs and called out on them just like any extremist religion. Just turns out a good deal of the Koran is still practiced as fact within the states that Muslims live in. It's degrading to humanity and shouldn't be protected. Not just Muslims but any practice that degrades human life

originally posted by: Layaly
a reply to: TechniXcality

the fastest way to close the gap is to respect a point of view .. not pointing out how this point of view differs to the rest

if you truly wanted to close a gap you would focus on the things that you do have in common .. you could have chosen any other topic then religion to show proof we are only guns (mm autocorrect that was meant to be humans) with silly opinions and a weird outlook on life

anyway sorry I will zip it now

There is no "best way". Healing, suffering, the social contract etc are fluid evolutions they require solutions specific to the problem which takes thought and consideration.

It's every bit as dangerous to have the view discrimination is bad as it is to be a phoebic discriminator.

You don't get to go on autopilot with peace and kindness when serious consequences and barbarism is continually happening.

Yes you need to be diplomatic as a moral superior but that does not mean you don't call people out for what they do.

It is not a lack of respect to point out when people are wrong.

It is cowardess to pretend it's not wrong because it could create a conflict.

People have lost the ability to think on their own. They get distracted with lights and noise and good teachers of philosophy are more rare every day. Your supposed to just fit into the belief systems available.

Thats no different than its ever been however our higher thought has been severely reduced.

The over reaction to superstitious discrimination has led to a zombie state of acceptance.

Consider this you live near poisonous snakes and every time someone is bit by a red one they die. If you don't discriminate and recognize the situation you may get bit and die.

However you know that another red snake from a near by town is actually helpfull non poisonous and gets rid of rats. If you went crazy and feared and killed all the red snakes you would be over run with rats. If you take the time to learn the subtle differences however you will be in better harmony with your situation. You could call out a poisonous snake when you see one and know when one is not.