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Syed Farook and NSA records collection

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posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 04:48 PM
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Most everyone on ATS is aware that the NSA has been required to cease their dragnet of phone data. Specifically:



Beginning Sunday, if the government wants to check on a specific phone number in a potential terrorism case, a request must be made to the relevant telephone company for a check of its own data. The government will no longer retain the information.

...

Under the revision, the government will present a specific phone number or cell phone identifier to the phone companies to seek the relevant call data. Except in emergencies, the records can be obtained only with an individual order from a special federal intelligence court.


Massive NSA Phone Data Collection to Cease

This means that the NSA must know who they are targeting in advance. Under the old rules, they had the ability to 'sift through the garbage' so-to-speak in order to find a hidden diamond they didn't know about...

Furthermore, you can pull up numerous threads, blogs, and commentary debating the effectiveness of the old rules in fighting terrorism. Government officials will start with the fire and brimstone that is surely going to rain down on our heads if we take away their ability to snoop through everyone's stuff with impunity. Naturally, they are not happy with the new rules...

Enter Syed Farook.

According to a CNN report (yet to validate this anywhere else due to time constraints), neither Farook nor his wife were known to intelligence as possible security concerns.



And two government officials said no red flags were raised when he'd gone to Saudi Arabia for several weeks in 2013 on the Hajj, the annual pilgrimage to Mecca that Muslims are required to take at least once in their lifetime. It was during this trip that he met Malik, a native of Pakistan who came to the United States in July 2014 on a "fiancée visa" and later became a lawful permanent resident.

Officials had previously said neither Farook and Malik were known to the FBI or on a list of potentially radicalized people. Nor had they had any known interactions with police until Wednesday.


Yet further investigation has now concluded that Farook had phone and internet contact with suspected radicalists.



Yet Farook himself had talked by phone and on social media with more than one person being investigated for terrorism, law enforcement officials said.

The communications were "soft connections" in that they weren't frequent, one law enforcement official said. It had been a few months since Farook's last back-and-forth with these people, who officials said were not considered high priority.


San Bernardino: Shooter was in touch with terror subjects, officials believe

So...even under the old rules of engagement, Farook was never on the radar.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out politically. The government never (in the long term) gives up power it has become accustomed to using. Currently the NSA has been forced to cease dragnet collection of NEW records. I wonder if they would even ATTEMPT to spin this or any other impending attacks as a consequence of the new rules....




posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 05:03 PM
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a reply to: CIAGypsy

If anything like current Potus, they announce something in order to flaunt intent to do the stark opposite imminently.



posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 05:30 PM
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My thoughts are that the NSA gathered some much data that it overpowered their ability to analyze it, probably putting us in a worse position as analysts either battled the sheer volume, actually probably spending more time on data sorting, sifting, parameter programming, tracking down false leads, and general management than on uncovering vital intelligence. Machines can do a lot, but nothing beats a sharp human set of eyes and ears or a brain for separating the noise from the vital information.
edit on 12/3/2015 by ~Lucidity because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 06:05 PM
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a reply to: CIAGypsy

Is the NSA really NOT collecting Mass data anymore?

You decide! Just more government BS to placate the masses if you ask me......



I guess for those who follow the MSM and government propaganda as the gospel it is relief?



edit on 3-12-2015 by seeker1963 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 06:07 PM
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a reply to: ~Lucidity

Especially if its as all pervasive as we were led to believe.

No one could possibly sift through all of the trees to find the forest.



posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 06:09 PM
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Well, if we tried to make value judgments on what data might be most relevant then we would be profiling wouldn't we? And we can't have that. Besides, your 80 year old neighbor with her new flipper phone might become the next Ma Barker and they might miss that if they don't gather all your records.



posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 06:17 PM
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All the information gathering in this nation seem to been targeted and specifically geared to whatever the spying agencies are after, more often than not, political garbage for leverage, obviously spying on political figures and those link to them is priority since the FBI was first established.

So, all that money, all the hoopla and all the anger for nothing, NSA, CIA, FBI and home land security are nothing but over bloated and over paid agencies that collect vast amounts of government budget from the tax payers and they are worthless.

Yes, no agency can gather so much data and be able to shift throughout in time to stop anything, at all.

This where our good tax dollars are going too.

Lets remember that those doing the data mining are private companies hired by the government.



posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 06:28 PM
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If they have stopped , why do the need that massive server farm in , what is it Utah ? I call BS on the stopping due to this.



posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 07:21 PM
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originally posted by: ~Lucidity
My thoughts are that the NSA gathered some much data that it overpowered their ability to analyze it, probably putting us in a worse position as analysts either battled the sheer volume, actually probably spending more time on data sorting, sifting, parameter programming, tracking down false leads, and general management than on uncovering vital intelligence. Machines can do a lot, but nothing beats a sharp human set of eyes and ears or a brain for separating the noise from the vital information.


It is not the only reason it was stopped, the advances in technology and software were catching up to it. Their equipment was becoming obsolete fast, but the investment in developing adequate software is enormous. Moving that software to new generation machines is important, however, it is not easily portable to quantum technology, and that raises the cost considerably as well.

Existing quantum technology would not solve all of the needs, but the capability of analysis involving Fourier transforms and pattern recognition in real time, which would be extremely CPU intensive, certainly would.

We really have to be careful what we wish for, because, even though there were capabilities that certainly could violate your privacy, if used in more clandestine operations, the loss of real time trigger word analysis and pattern recognition is a security risk for the nation, when terrorists and crime syndicates use the infrastructure to chatter.

I would bet that there is a compromise developing here that would allow the real time analysis to basically continue, but things would only be stored if the 'score' warranted that.

Let's face it, it is a different world. We have no real idea what these systems have caught in the past, except for what they tell us. If having an efficient filter that does not specifically spy on you, but is able to signal an impending disaster, I for one, would not be against it.


edit on 3-12-2015 by charlyv because: spelling , where caught



posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 07:26 PM
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a reply to: CIAGypsy

it is getting very obvious that the NSA us useless as guard to our safety even with the spying... so then one must ask, what are they spying on?



posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 07:54 PM
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Advances and availability of encryption also contribute to it being less effective. That does not say that they are not working on solutions for that, but it is extremely hard to do in real time.



posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 08:03 PM
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originally posted by: reddragon2015
a reply to: CIAGypsy

it is getting very obvious that the NSA us useless as guard to our safety even with the spying... so then one must ask, what are they spying on?


you want my opinion or a politically correct answer???



posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 08:10 PM
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a reply to: seeker1963

This is what the "new rules" state:



Under the new guidelines, the NSA no longer may directly collect and hold data about the domestic phone records of U.S. citizens.

Instead, telecom companies will retain and access the data on their customers. The NSA may then seek warrants from the secretive courts created by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) in order to compel these companies to hand over pertinent information on terrorism suspects and affiliates. The requests are not done in bulk, but rather require “specific selectors” such as the phone number of an individual. The NSA then has up to 180-days to query the telecom companies for more data—on socially connected persons of interest, so-called one-to-two degree “hops” on their networks—before seeking a renewed authority from a FISA court.

There are exceptions to these items though.

What kinds of exceptions?

Notably, the NSA’s bulk collection database still exists. The agency has requested permission to keep its records for the past five years intact through Feb. 29, 2016. This will ostensibly allow the agency to make sure nothing has gone awry during the transition. Access will be “limited to technical personnel and solely for the purpose of verifying that the new targeted production mechanism authorized by the USA FREEDOM Act is working as intended,” ODNI said in a statement. The database is “hands off” for analysts.


However, I agree that they will find and utilize any loophole to access and retain the information.

Let's face it, how many times has a FISA court denied them???? ZERO.



posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 08:39 PM
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a reply to: CIAGypsy

Hey my special friend, i for one am glad that at least some type of new restrictions have been thrown on the alphabet agencies, JFK was doing this very thing before he got whacked, the abuse these agencies have done in the past warrants this, so many crimes vs humanity at there hands....

But of course the MIC (military industrial complex) will try and regain a foot hold, but this is the right way to go it also in the long run lessens the grip other countries have on us with these moves...



posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 08:50 PM
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a reply to: charlyv

I appreciate and agree with much of what you elaborated on.

However, I just want to say, my post was not to explain the reason they stopped. They haven't. I was merely pointing out that it's been both ineffective and illustory, wherein they claim it is making anyone "safer."



posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 08:51 PM
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originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: charlyv

I appreciate and agree with much of what you elaborated on.

However, I just want to say, my post was not to explain the reason they stopped. They haven't. I was merely pointing out that it's been both ineffective and illustory, wherein they claim it is making anyone "safer."


Boston and San Bernadino being cases in point, eh?



posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 08:55 PM
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originally posted by: charlyv
Advances and availability of encryption also contribute to it being less effective. That does not say that they are not working on solutions for that, but it is extremely hard to do in real time.

Exactly, the data is growing at an exponentially alarming rate, and much of it is even intentional noise.

a reply to: CIAGypsy

This "new rule" is pretty much what it was intended to be to begin with, but the abuse was practically built in, and the prime abusers weren't doing it for altruistic reasons.

a reply to: CIAGypsy

There could be a pretty good argument made...even being made here for that...yes. Definitely.

ETA: The NSA aren't the only ones collecting data either. And despite all the lip service after 9/11 about all the agencies "cooperating" they've made little progress there too, for many of the same reasons already stated.
edit on 12/3/2015 by ~Lucidity because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 09:03 PM
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What good did all that data collecting do anyway?
They have been doing it for years and how many things did it stop, even when they were collecting stuff from people that they knew were a real treat?
Our homeland is less safe now than it was before DHS came along.



posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 09:25 PM
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a reply to: ~Lucidity

I agree they have not stopped, however if enough pressure stays on them maybe these effects will mean something, at least a public effort was made which is at least a start, back when the CIA got caught spying on congress sparked some of this, the abuse was running rampart, i hope this is at least a start of something big..one can only hope i know.



posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 09:31 PM
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The other Syed Farook (the muslim terrorist's brother) was a Navy information systems technician. He was awarded two global war on terrorism medals.

Their parents immigrated from Pakistan.

I hope they are put under the microscope as well as anyone they have been in contact with.

www.dailymail.co.uk...



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