Mass shootings and the blind spot of society

a reply to: DBCowboy

I completely agree, OP.

The fact is that someone intent on doing harm to others will always find a way. You cannot punish someone (gun owners) for the crimes of another nor can you punish someone when they have not committed a crime.

So far it looks like extremists and SEVERELY mentally ill folks doing these crimes, although you could argue these are often the same thing.

a reply to: Terminal1

If there are crazy people out there, not because of education, propaganda, religion and so on, then the why does not matter and the how does, as a crazy one can harm more with a nuke than with a bomb, and more with an ak with 1k rounds than a knife, so limiting the access to weapons that have higher potential to do more damage is the only thing a government could do. If they are just crazy what else could be done, put them all out (jail, island, nazi way)? That is not possible

originally posted by: Metallicus
ime.

So far it looks like extremists and SEVERELY mentally ill folks doing these crimes, although you could argue these are often the same thing.

I agree, but isn't the question WHY are there so many, mentally ill extremist killing innocent people. Is is natures way of thinning the herd, mystical intervention, overpopulation, toxic pollution, poverty, tribal racism, etc? or all of the above.

How can the MSM, politicians, academics even address such a complex problem.

originally posted by: Indigent
a reply to: Terminal1

If there are crazy people out there, not because of education, propaganda, religion and so on, then the why does not matter and the how does, as a crazy one can harm more with a nuke than with a bomb, and more with an ak with 1k rounds than a knife, so limiting the access to weapons that have higher potential to do more damage is the only thing a government could do. If they are just crazy what else could be done, put them all out (jail, island, nazi way)? That is not possible

So where does it end? I do see what you are saying though if guns ceased to exist then it would be baseball bats. Even without nukes and guns there are still a host of ways to mass kill. A simple query into history before guns and nukes will show you that man will find a way to kill another. So where does it end? Until the "why" gets solved, which it won't any time soon, the "how" is just window dressing for the "why".

a reply to: olaru12

You can't.

Freedom isn't free and there will always be a cost when we aren't controlled by Authoritarians. Terrorist, crazies and guns don't scare me, but Government overreach sure does.

Humans have a collective aspect of consciousness they refuse to admit.

There can be no peace and prosperity in USA, if Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, and mexico are in poverty and war.

Notice the increase in violence in the USA correlate with the USA war violence.

A murder anywhere will cause ripples through the collective consciousness, and somewhere there will be others primed at that point in time to be effected.

If you do not believe this, you do not want to know the why.

Violent television also feeds this. Maybe the viewer the.selves will not become violent, but somewhere another human fractal does.

What you do effects your species.

Thanks for all the replies. I can't even begin to surmise what the solutions are for WHY people do what they do. We've been doing it to each other since we learned to walk on 2 legs. It's human nature to be cruel, apparently.

What I can say with certainty is that just limiting HOW we do what we do to each other will not stop WHAT we do to each other.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

What they are ignoring is WHY people are doing it in the first place.

The "Why" almost seems too crazy. A decent Muslim guy with no real issues goes to Saudi Arabia gets a bride and something happens. Did he corrupt her or her him? Hearing close relatives that are extremely shocked, I'm thinking he got himself an extremest that was most likely planned out for her to marry some American. I just do not understand how a person goes from just a norm American to a killer of innocent people knowing the end is death for him too. That is the truly weird part.

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: olaru12

You can't.

Freedom isn't free and there will always be a cost when we aren't controlled by Authoritarians. Terrorist, crazies and guns don't scare me, but Government overreach sure does.

Terrorists, crazies, and guns don't scare me either, government and religious zealots of any stripe scare me. Local, County and State Government is far more scary than the fed.

a reply to: olaru12

Same with - IT'S THE GUNS!!

Eh?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: olaru12

Same with - IT'S THE GUNS!!

Eh?

I have no issues with guns, the fbi has determined all 4 firearms in SB were bought legally, have not heard the answer on the CO PP shooter. I want guns out of the hands of the insane and irresponsible. I am not sure what the answer is, but to keep guns out of the hands of the Adam Lanza, or James Holmes, and that dude in the SC church would go along way to making me feel better.

a reply to: BubbaJoe

How? How do you keep guns from the insane and irresponsible? Hell. We elect the insane and irresponsible every two to four years.

And you want guns kept way from the insane and irresponsible?

a reply to: BubbaJoe

One way might be to find a way to control the insane, but we can't do that because while everyone assigns near mythical status to the NRA (like the Kochs), the lobby that protects mentally ill is just as, if not more, powerful, and they lobby equally hard against any attempt to define the mentally ill and take measures that might protect us and them.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
I've noticed (among other things) a myopic attitude towards the recent events of violence and mass murder.

Pundits, politicians, regular people are focusing on the HOW. Not the WHY.

They are focusing on HOW people have killed others. They talk of banning guns, more control of guns, regulating guns.

What they are ignoring is WHY people are doing it in the first place.

I figure, if you solve the WHY (they are doing it) then the HOW becomes meaningless. We need to discover the WHY. We need to solve the WHY.

If we only focus on the HOW then things like this will continue.

WHY did the couple kill those people in California? WHY did that man kill those people in Colorado? We need to solve the WHY.

When I see people focusing on the HOW, then I almost have to assume that they simply want guns banned for reasons other than protecting the public. When I see politicians focusing on the HOW, I see them as short-sighted people who just want more control over the rest of us.

It's like solving the drug problem by banning needles from everywhere, even hospitals. It doesn't address the WHY, it only focuses on the HOW.

Anyways, just thought I bring this up because I really don't see the media or our "leaders" doing it.

Thanks for reading.

What you point out is correct. The reason there is no discussion about why, is because as a prominent person in the US, cant think of his name, said that you control debate by setting the parameters and then let robust discussion take place within those boundaries. This creates the illusion of open debate.

Since I read that and I am aware of it, its quite easy to see it when I watch or listen to talk shows on TV. This is how the controllers determine what the masses think about anything is whatever they want them to think.

Funny how once we are aware of something its easy to identify it when we see it.

a reply to: DBCowboy

The 'why' is easily seen.
Irrational , impulsive anger ,
fuelled by drugs of every kind ,
and a gun within easy reach ,

add up to a new disaster , or two , or three etc.
EVERY day .

Wake up , see and hear the truth , do something brave ,
and confront these issues now , instead of being part of the problem .

a reply to: DBCowboy

My first question isn't how or why, I've seen enough that I must first ask DID IT REALLY?

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
Because if we looked at the WHY, we would have to completely reverse course on the "ME ME ME" that has been indoctrinated for the past 20+ years into our kids

Every University

Every Public School

Every program designed to placate a persons ego and make them feel "special" and not prepare them for the realities that the world is going to slam them with

We have replaced Morals, Right and Wrong, Hard work, and the value of life with "Whats in it for me' "WHAT ABOUT ME!" "Give me my
participation trophy!"

Educators have stopped teaching HOW to think and started teaching WHAT to think

No one wants to look at this, this has been systematic and now we are reaping what has been sewn as a society

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why do we give so much attention to these shooters? thats what id like to know? it seems like maybe there is a pattern of monkey see monkey do?