Is Russia Going Rogue?

a reply to: MrSpad

One of the ironies is that the Kremlin is a victim of its own propaganda. They genuinely believed that the jihadists were really mercenaries who would just melt away in the face of overwhelming force, and that the Syrian army were patriots who were fiercely loyal to Assad. Turns out they had it exactly backwards: people willing to turn themselves into a living bomb are obviously deeply committed to their cause, whereas the Syrian army were cowardly, unmotivated, and mercenary. Five years to quash a rebellion? Seriously?

originally posted by: payta
I'm pretty sure everyone has already seen the pictures Russia has released as evidence of Turkey's financial support of ISIS.
Here's a thread on it.

Things have been escalating since the downing of the SU-24, when I first heard of that I knew Turkey had messed up big time, Putin is no Obama he wasn't going to chicken out. And he certainly hasn't, the recent measures taken prove that.
I wondered how far he would be ready to go, and the press conference given today by russians official answered that in a way, it surprised me indeed, I mean I knew Russia wasn't going to back down, but the release of this sort of information shocked me.
I'm pretty sure this is not something new for the world leaders, but political correctness prevents this kind of things of reaching the MSM, Putin though is now willing to go on an all out war (metaphorically speaking so far) against Turkey, USA and their allies. Take 911 for example, Russia could probably show some evidence to stir up controversy shedding some light on the matter, but they dont do that out of political correctness, however it seems things are changing, at least that's what it looks like to me.

Is Russia going rogue? Will they start exposing more information like this, the kind that governments usually keep to themselves?
IMO Putin feels he has been betrayed and hates being teased and toyed by a turkish Putin copycat. He is smart enough not to attack turkey directly, but is going to do whatever it takes to lure turkey into war, cause in the end he wouldn't mind nuking Ankara.

So, what do you think, will Russia stop playing by the book?

I seriously doubt it. Too much has already been hinted/lightly broached by the west. Anywhere from 20 to 40 Billion stowed away by Putin in various countries. Basically stolen from Russia. The list of dead opposition leaders, reporters and the like in Russia, itself.

He didn't get and maintain power in that draconian environment without his own misdeeds.

He's ratcheting up the rhetoric, I suspect, due to sheer desperation. He's failed to drive up international oil prices, Par of his motivation(?) so far and is rapidly running out of resources to maintain this level of activity.

My concern is desperate people turn to desperate measures....just how far is he willing to go to drive up those oil prices??

P.S. If anyone thinks China is a Russian ally in all this is forgetting it's China who's benefitting most with the low oil expense.

Iran? They'd bail on him in a heartbeat if he crashes and burns.

Turkey? NATO allies takes care of any military concerns, for now at least. The ones who are wringing their hands seem to be the west. Particularly, the U.S.....go figure.


Afterthought. I think Russia is already not playing 'by the book'. Russia's risk as opposed to Putin's personal risk. Putin's is more exposed than 'Russia'. I think. If they can be separated, at all....

He worries me more than 'Russia'. Does that make any sense?

a reply to: nwtrucker

Iran? They'd bail on him in a heartbeat if he crashes and burns.

Iran and Russia will eventually have a showdown over control of Central Asia. Right now they are united in breaking the back of Sunni Islam in West Asia.

Erdagon is in a no win situation now.
It doesn`t matter if nobody can provide hard evidence that turkey is buying ISIS oil.
all it takes is enough circumstancial evidence pointing the finger at Turkey and most people will believe that Turkey is guilty.
In the court of public opinion Turkey is guilty and they won`t be getting any sympathy or help if something bad happens to them.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck,and quacks like a duck, somebody is going to shoot it,cook it and eat it for dinner.
Turkey is looking a lot like a duck right now.

public opinion stopped Obama from bombing assad when there were dubious claims that assad used chemical weapons and public opinion will stop Obama from helping Turkey if something bad should happen.

Putin is smart, he knows that he doesn`t have to provide infallible hard evidence in order to sway public opinion, after all this isn`t a court of law,enough circumstancial evidence will do the job.he also knows that you should never underestimate the power of public opinion.

a reply to: DJW001

He did,try reading what all records say. It is Erdogan's son that is head of all the oil business in Turkey. That crude is being shipped directly there and processed,then shipped out.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: nwtrucker

Iran? They'd bail on him in a heartbeat if he crashes and burns.

Iran and Russia will eventually have a showdown over control of Central Asia. Right now they are united in breaking the back of Sunni Islam in West Asia.

I suppose they 'could' share it. Let Iran have regional control whist Russia works the big picture.

a reply to: Tardacus

Unless Russia brings the matter up in the UN, it doesn't matter what people think.

originally posted by: Dimithae
a reply to: DJW001

He did,try reading what all records say. It is Erdogan's son that is head of all the oil business in Turkey. That crude is being shipped directly there and processed,then shipped out.

No, Erdogan's son owns a shipping line; it is the family business. His son-in-law is Minister of Energy, in violation of Turkish law. Once again, no-one is saying Turkey isn't corrupt, but that doesn't mean that Turkey is funding Daesh.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: MrSpad

One of the ironies is that the Kremlin is a victim of its own propaganda. They genuinely believed that the jihadists were really mercenaries who would just melt away in the face of overwhelming force, and that the Syrian army were patriots who were fiercely loyal to Assad. Turns out they had it exactly backwards: people willing to turn themselves into a living bomb are obviously deeply committed to their cause, whereas the Syrian army were cowardly, unmotivated, and mercenary. Five years to quash a rebellion? Seriously?

I doubt Putin had any illusions of this ... I bet, what he is showing the world ... he knew long before he went in there. And I'll tell you something, Britain has demanded where the money is going and you know what is going to come out of it all?

The money is going to "NATO and US accepted rebel government of Syria".

And this is EXACTLY what the Russians are doing ... they are tying a knot, between ISIS and the rebels.

It goes like this, ISIS controls the oil fields ... oil loads onto civilian trucks, being tucked to Turky, barreled into Europe and money goes into the bank account of Rebels.

NATO thinks they have their backs covered, showing money goes to Rebels ... not ISIS.

So, now the Russians will tie through the oil a "relationship" between ISIS and the Rebels.

Didn't you see this coming?

But, the Russians better be ready to back all this up with "firepower" ... because that's what it's going to take.

a reply to: payta

I watched a documentary years ago about Peak Oil. Have we hit that wall? Everything that has happened in the middle east seems to be about oil and money.

a reply to: bjarneorn

Let's wait and see if Putin discloses the money trail. If he doesn't, it will speak volumes.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: bjarneorn

Let's wait and see if Putin discloses the money trail. If he doesn't, it will speak volumes.

He can't disclose the money trail ... that trail is only available through the banks, and the US is in control of that. And we'll hear a lot of "rumors" without evidence, about that.

Russia will do the next best thing, they'll show the connection between rebels and oil through ISIS having control of the fields, and the trucks going to Turkey. He then has the option, to show flow of arms from Turkey to rebels and we all have the flow of arms from the rebels to ISIS.

The "proof" of concept, in the money flow ... will be shown by "rumors", "alegations" by western media ... without "proof". And the only proof, will be like Erdogan is showing ... some backwater agency, that also "knows who killed the swedish prime mister, Olöf Palme".

We can then make the logical connection, by seeing Britain (those guys that voted to allow blacks to be sent as slaves to the Americas, to save the blacks in Africa) go down there, along with the French and Germans. All to prolong the war, and ... ensure the oil.

That closes the loop.

Russia shouldn't play ball with them ... they'd should "up" their game and end the war, whatever the cost with NATO. But Putin will probably wanna play ball.

originally posted by: bjarneorn

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: MrSpad

One of the ironies is that the Kremlin is a victim of its own propaganda. They genuinely believed that the jihadists were really mercenaries who would just melt away in the face of overwhelming force, and that the Syrian army were patriots who were fiercely loyal to Assad. Turns out they had it exactly backwards: people willing to turn themselves into a living bomb are obviously deeply committed to their cause, whereas the Syrian army were cowardly, unmotivated, and mercenary. Five years to quash a rebellion? Seriously?

I doubt Putin had any illusions of this ... I bet, what he is showing the world ... he knew long before he went in there. And I'll tell you something, Britain has demanded where the money is going and you know what is going to come out of it all?

I doubt that too, I even think Russia could go ahead and wipe ISIS if they really wanted to do so, I mean let's face it, The main differene between the USA and Russia, is that in Russia public opinion has little weight, as someone mentioned before, Putin has assasinated opposition leaders, he has been running the country for over 10 years, he controls the media and holds all of the power, or at least has a fairly good grip of it. What I'm saying is he has the freedom to act as he pleases, if he believes deploying ground troops is the way to go, he will do so, not fearing what the media or opposition leaders may say.
Russia has not played all of their cards yet, they have a very strong military, and they have no problem in using it, unlike America. If obama had to put boots on the ground I'm pretty sure he would face some fierce opposition.

originally posted by: Stan71
a reply to: payta

I watched a documentary years ago about Peak Oil. Have we hit that wall? Everything that has happened in the middle east seems to be about oil and money.

No, there's dreadful amounts of oil and NG reserves being discovered all the time. Cheaply extracted oil is a thing of the past, but there is no "Peak Oil" crunch, as such.

a reply to: bjarneorn

So in other words he will make the claim but cant support the claim ad blames the US....

rriiiigghht...

originally posted by: gimphnoid
a reply to: texasyeti

This is has gone completely out of control. We will soon have four NATO members in total, UK, France, US, and Turkey, all fighting two wars in one country, the war on ISIS and the war on Assad. One they can win simply by stopping the flow of fuel and ammo. They other bigger war they believe is the reason all this is happening, the Assad factor is now the bomb about to go off. The media is not ready to tell people that Syria's only war is to fight off the dogs of NATO, that's where Russia comes in. Time will tell that Russia is completely ready to stop NATO in their greasy tracks from destroying any more sovereign nations. It's so funny how Russia and the NATO allies once worked togeather to stop the nazi ideology from infecting the world, now they sit and count the hours before the collision, the serendipitous march of greater powers becoming more monstrous than all they once fought and feared.

Very good post. Don't forget to mention the 5th important factor: Israel.
Very crucial to realize this, although Israel is not in NATO, it's right up there with the top 4 in this war.

a reply to: DJW001

The UN are useless buffoons. They can't seem to defend or fight or enforce anything but they sure are good at staring at atrocities with saucer eyes and not do anything about them. CLOWNS.

a reply to: Starling

Very good post. Don't forget to mention the 5th important factor: Israel.
Very crucial to realize this, although Israel is not in NATO, it's right up there with the top 4 in this war.

Israel has been doing little more than defending its border and providing humanitarian aid.

a reply to: bjarneorn

He can't disclose the money trail ... that trail is only available through the banks, and the US is in control of that.

You attribute all kinds of super powers to the United States. Russia can invoke counter-terrorism to subpoena Maltese banks if it wants. Pretty sure it doesn't want to do that.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: bjarneorn

He can't disclose the money trail ... that trail is only available through the banks, and the US is in control of that.

You attribute all kinds of super powers to the United States. Russia can invoke counter-terrorism to subpoena Maltese banks if it wants. Pretty sure it doesn't want to do that.

The US does have all kinds of superpowers, or at least, the people whose interest America is representing runthe show.