Can Islam be reformed? No.

a reply to: buster2010

Must admit it is the goal for the best religion going.

Ok I have enough of this ignorance. I do not follow any type of organized religion so I`m not biased in any way but it just irritates me how ignorant and brainwashed some people are.

So here it is, the oldest tasfir (interpretation,teachings) of Islam...please read slowly and carefully.

Wahid Al-Qur'an

Wahid Al-Qur'an, or "The Qur'an Alone" (a.k.a. Quranism [قرآنيون Qurʾāniyūn]) is the school of tafsir first used by Muslims during the first two centuries of Islamic history. As such, in that it predates the Sunni and Shi'a Hadiths and therefore Sunni and Shia interpretations by approximately 200 years, Wahid Al-Qur'an survives as the oldest school of tafsir. In contrast to Sunni, Shia and Ibadi doctrines, which consider hadith essential for the Islamic faith, Quranists reject the authority of hadith on grounds that the very notion appears to directly conflict with a central tenant of Islam, which holds the authority of the revelation as complete and indivisible, because no one but Allah knows the true interpretation of its verses - not even Muhammad himself. Thus the notion of Muslims requiring an additional revelation beyond the Quran to understand the true interpretation of its verses is, from the Quranist perspective, a contradiction in terms lacking a theological basis in The Revelation itself. Verses in The Qur'an which appear to support the view that the necessity of hadith for interpreting the Qur'an is explicitly rejected by the Qur'an itself include Surah 3, Ayat 7, which reads:

"It is He who has sent down to you, the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding." Quran 3:7

For me personally, this is the closest to what some call "pure Islam", not what some Islamic extremist propaganda is telling you...

a reply to: ChesterJohn

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
There are other teachings in Islam not found in the Quran, the Hadiths and other writings and interpretations also play a part in this.

Absolutely!
But in your OP you talked about the MAIN TEACHING of Islam. Are you suggesting that the "MAIN TEACHING" of Islam is absolutely nowhere to be found in the MAIN BOOK of Islam? That'd be kinda silly, don't you think? Heck, kinda weird to have a teaching of any significance at all that is not even TALKED about in the main scriptural book of Islam, agreed upon by all muslims everywhere (as opposed to the Hadiths and other writings and interpretations, which vary by fiqh and sect).
So it seems you are wrong about the MAIN TEACHING of Islam.

Is your entire OP and thread flawed? Can it be reformed?

oops dbl post

a reply to: babloyi

It doesn't have to be to be a main teaching.

A main teaching of Christianity is a trinity and it is found nowhere in the Bible.

a reply to: ChesterJohn
Fair enough.
Then by what criteria do you make the main teaching of Islam "the worldwide Caliphate that will usher in the 12th Imam"?

a reply to: babloyi

There has to be a head of this Caliphate and most believe it will be the 12th Imam, Iran said he was already on the world scene.

a reply to: ChesterJohn
Which Caliphate? Where is the requirement for a Caliphate in Islam?
Isn't it odd that somehow the MAIN TEACHING of Islam involves a figure (the 12th Imam) only believed to be authentic by less than 10% of muslims worldwide?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: ChesterJohn

You may be right. Look at how many hateful and intolerant Christians still exist and they talk about about being "reformed".

It doesn't at all matter that 14 people were mowed down yesterday and 21 injured by non-Christians. Anytime there is an opportunity to slander Christians, TAKE IT. It doesn't matter if it's off-topic.

So, let's just blow off the thread title, and the people who were murdered yesterday? It's so Yawn. Let's talk about the Radical Christian Terrorists who are everywhere! OMA! OMM!

Obsess much? pfft.

a reply to: angeldoll

Actually that post was meant to get you to show that one can easily make the same comparisons about Christianity as he was making about Islam. The fact that you didn't see that connection (or didn't want to see that connection) speaks worlds to me.

I really tire of these "Muslims are evil" threads. They are hateful, intolerant, and don't further us closer to understanding each other. We just sit and mischaracterize Muslims for hours on end every time a few Muslims kill people in the west then ignore any obvious parallels when other abrhamic religions are guilty of the same things.

Get back to me if you actually care about talking about Muslims for real instead of making unintelligent comments about how "Muslims can't be reformed" or whatever. If you want to have your xenophobic hate fest about Muslims, do it, I've said my piece and pointed out the hypocrisy.

HOWEVER, if you want to talk about the travesty that happened and how the people who lost their lives shouldn't have. That's a different story, but I have no intention of falling for you bait here trying to make a political issue out of another mass murder.

PS: In a perfect world this thread would already have been trash binned for xenophobia reasons.

a reply to: Op3nM1nd3d

Maybe you are right.

I do believe some souls can find the golden path thru the Quran. But I believe there are better maps and many will instead deceive themselves from the Quran just like people do thru the Bible (both Jews and Christians). I also think Muhammad was self deceiving himself. From my point of view the Quran is too inefficient.

Self deceit seem to be something all humanity is cursed with including myself. So the only question is how much self deceit will every soul have and how much self awareness can a soul create within to counter it.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
No you cannot reform Islam...

100% correct...

Jihad is a pillar of Islam, no Muslim can be against the tenets of Islam.

Muslims cannot be against Jihad or they are not Muslims.

Islam has one goal and one goal alone: to assimilate or to destroy.

The Qur’an itself and history both prove that there is no such thing as moderate Islam.

The problem is that it is difficult to establish which Muslim condemns terrorism and who approves it. What we call terrorism to a Muslim is holy Jihad and Jihad is a pillar of Islam. No Muslim can be against Jihad. If you oppose Jihad you are no more a Muslim.

Jihad means waging war against the infidels to make Islam dominant. This, according to the examples set by the Prophet of Islam is done through ambush, raids and killing unarmed civilians, looting them and even raping their wives and taking them as slaves. You and I call these terrorism, Muslims call them Jihad.

But Muslims play with words. They condemn terrorism but can’t condemn Jihad.

The myth of peaceful Muslims

Is there any such a thing as a moderate Muslim? Absolutely not, there is no such thing as moderate Islam.

...there is no distinction between “good Muslims” and bad Muslims. Muslims are Muslims and all of them agree with all the tenets of Islam and Jihad is one of them. Jihad is terrorism and every Muslim who says he is against terrorism is lying or he does not know Islam. He is saying this just to fool you. Muslims cannot be against Jihad or they are not Muslims. You have to see through the veneer of deception to see the reality of Islam.

The first sentence of this paragraph says it all. If these Muslims do not seek to change the tenets of the religion then they can’t change the Jihad which is one of the fundamental tenets of Islam. Therefore their purported opposition to Islamic terrorism is nothing but a pretense.

The rest of this paragraph is nothing but lip service intended to con the gullible westerner, for whose consumption this site is actually devises. The truth is that the Quran does not leave the faithful with any flexibility to modernize. Islam cannot be reformed. How can you reform something that is believed to be perfect?

The myth of peaceful Muslims

You ask: “Can Islam be reformed?” No, it can’t! To reform Islam you have to first get rid of Muhammad and second get rid of the Quran. You have to take out a great portion of that book which is violent. The rest is nonsense and absurdity. But this you can’t do, because you have no authority to do such a thing. Muhammad said that he has perfected his religion (Q. 5:3). How can you improve something, which is perfect? You can’t change the Quran. You can’t reform it. The problem is: who gets to decide which parts of the Quran are applicable and which parts are obsolete? Who has such authority to make this decision?

However, Islam can’t be reformed. You need to have an authority with a rank similar or superior to the one claimed by Muhammad to be able to reform Islam. But that can’t be done, because Muhammad said he was the last prophet.

Why Can't Islam be Reformed?

‘Islam is not a religion. Considering Islam a religion is a mistake that could cost millions of lives. Islam is a political movement set to conquer the world. It is the Borg of the non-fictional world. Islam has one goal and one goal alone: to assimilate or to destroy.’ Whether we want to call Islam a religion or not is a question of semantics. How we define religion is up to us. We can define it so inclusive that Islam also could be qualified as a religion. However, under no circumstances we should forget that Islam is first and foremost a political movement. Its aim is not spiritual but very temporal and political.

Disguised as religion, it not only fools its followers, encouraging them to sacrifice their wealth and their lives for its political agenda, it also remains immune from being opposed by other political parties. The message is very clear. Muslims are waging a Jihad to take over the world. No one is forcing them to educate themselves and modernize. But that is not what they want. They want to dominate and take over the world and religion is just a convenient tool in their quest.

An Imperialistic Cult?

Islam is a totalitarian ideology, cloaked in robes of religion to present itself as honorable to an unsuspecting world. We have heard imams (Muslim clerics) who describe Islam as: “The Religion of Peace.” Islam is in truth a demonically influenced regime of warlords, whose goal is world dominance.

Muslim jihadists must obey the words of their book. They fear for their own lives if they do not live as terrorists, because Allah has told them in their book that they should be killed for not obeying. In fact, doubting Allah in the mind of a Muslim is terrible thing.

The Qur’an Proves There Is No Such Thing As Moderate Islam

a reply to: Murgatroid
Exactly the same post with exactly the same content posted twice?

See my response here