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Can Islam be reformed? No.

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posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 11:54 PM
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Everyone is suggesting if they could get all the Islamic Nations to reform their religion this would end terrorism is absolutely wrong because it is their main teaching that motivates Muslims.

The main teaching of Islam is the worldwide Caliphate that will usher in the 12th Imam. This worldwide Caliphate is the motive behind terrorist like IS and the lone wolfer in the SB killing.

You cannot remove this major tenant of their faith and as long as it is taught their will be those who will do Jihad.

No you cannot reform Islam without removing the prophecy of the worldwide Caliphate.




posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 11:58 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn
Actually , Islam in its original state does not need reforming. It is the other groups that bastardize the religious teachings that do.





posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 12:26 AM
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originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: ChesterJohn
Actually , Islam in its original state does not need reforming. It is the other groups that bastardize the religious teachings that do.


I can agree to this statement. The Bible has the same amount (if not more) content within it that are just as oppressive and aggressive as the Qur'an does. Some groups interpret both religious texts in their extreme forms. It is due to these extreme groups that causes such horrible actions.



posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 12:27 AM
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originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: ChesterJohn
Actually , Islam in its original state does not need reforming. It is the other groups that bastardize the religious teachings that do.


I can agree to this statement. The Bible has the same amount (if not more) content within it that are just as oppressive and aggressive as the Qur'an does. Some groups interpret both religious texts in their extreme forms. It is due to these extreme groups that causes such horrible actions.


Actually , they are near one and the same until the death of Father Abraham...in that respect , you are correct.



posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 12:32 AM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

I am more tired of 'the War on Terror' than I am of terrorism. This has been an agenda driven global crisis that is being perpetrated upon us by the very people that say they want to protect us from the evil Islamists.

My chances of being victimized in a terror attack is less than .000001%, however, my chance of having my rights trampled by my Government is 100%.

You tell me what the bigger threat is to global peace? Islam isn't the problem Government manipulation of us by the media and military industrial complex is the real problem.

I don't really want to defend any religion, but in this case the focus is in the wrong place.



posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 01:40 AM
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a reply to: Gothmog

Actually it is the wahabi saudis and ISIS that are practicing islam in it's pure original state.

The quran clearly states muhammed is infallible and contains the direct words of allah. It is therefore perfect and nothing can be added or subtracted.

It also says the only law there is is allahs word.

Anyone who disagrees with one single aspect of the quran is an apostate to be sentenced to death, just like Saudai Arabai did last week to a palestinian poet covicted of apostasy.

To say Saudi Arabai is not truly Islamic is as silly as trying to claim the Vatican is not truly catholic.

Unlike the christian bible which is composed of many languages, some dead, translated through several versions over thousands of years, that are open to interpretation, the quran is written in exactly the same language as used in Saudi Arabia today. No inrepretation required or allowed.
edit on 3-12-2015 by Deny Arrogance because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 06:25 AM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
The main teaching of Islam is the worldwide Caliphate that will usher in the 12th Imam. This worldwide Caliphate is the motive behind terrorist like IS and the lone wolfer in the SB killing.

Really? That's some incredibly new news to me. I don't think the term "12th imam" occurs anywhere in the Quran, and the only mention of "Caliph" in the Quran is a verse that says that God created humanity as his caliph on earth, and one where King David is called God's Caliph.
Amazing that there's this "main teaching of Islam" that doesn't even occur in the religious book revealed for that religion!

a reply to: Deny Arrogance

originally posted by: Deny Arrogance
Actually it is the wahabi saudis and ISIS that are practicing islam in it's pure original state.

Are they now? According to who? According to you? According to them? According to the vast, vast billion plus majority of muslims who disagree with them?


originally posted by: Deny Arrogance
The quran clearly states muhammed is infallible and contains the direct words of allah.

Muhammad contains the direct words of allah? What does that even mean? Muhammad himself said that he was very specific when he was reciting from the Quran or saying something from god. And the Quran certainly doesn't "clearly state Muhammad is infallible". Muhammad is mentioned only 4 times in the Quran, twice along the lines of "Muhammad is nothing more than an apostle" (not god), once along the lines of "Muhammad is father of no man among you", and once that the Quran has been revealed to Muhammad. None of these can be interpreted to clearly state that Muhammad is infallible, in fact, the Quran in one (or two?) places rebukes Muhammad for some things (restricting himself personally from eating honey when it hadn't been forbidden, according to one tradition). According to traditional islam, the infallibility of Muhammad pertains to how he conveyed his message- the Quran.



originally posted by: Deny Arrogance
Anyone who disagrees with one single aspect of the quran is an apostate to be sentenced to death, just like Saudai Arabai did last week to a palestinian poet covicted of apostasy.

To say Saudi Arabai is not truly Islamic is as silly as trying to claim the Vatican is not truly catholic.

Really? According to who? The scripture makes no such claim. Is your argument is literally "ISIL says they are following true islam, ISIL does something, so it must be true Islam"?


originally posted by: Deny Arrogance
The quran is written in exactly the same language as used in Saudi Arabia today. No inrepretation required or allowed.

It is the same language, in the same way that English from 1000 years ago is the same english being spoken today (hint: it isn't).



posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 07:41 AM
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a reply to: babloyi

Forget it, there is no point trying to ask or explain anything to some

Haven't you worked it out yet,

Muslims know nothing about Islam.

Its the non Muslims especially those that have a hatred and would never read the Quran only whats posted on certain sites and youtube videos that know what Islam is about, at least to quite a few that post on these boards and many in the media.

The I hate Islam threads are just a joke in my eyes, the abundance of them in recent weeks just points to a sick agenda that which mirrors ISIS, division. posts in them agreeing and trying to fuel the fires of hate show more of the moral character of those posting than anything else.

Its no wonder people of any faith might start towards an extreme mindset when there is such strong force that pushes for division.

Its a shame that many from all spectrum's can get manipulated so easily. Those that hate and those that act out their hate, its those that hate that have a chance to turn it around, they are only a step behind those that act upon their hate, but some just want the hate to flow.

I feel sorry for them, I feel their pain but I also see that hate fuels many which is so sad but I guess its human nature and has been for a very long time.



posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 08:15 AM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

Doesn't the bible state the rise of the Anti-Christ will usher in the Messiah. Who will eventually wage war against the Anti-Christ? It also states beware of false prophets. Mohammed could easily be considered a false prophet of Islam, and ISIS terrorism being the rise of the Anti-Christ. I mean beheadings, setting people on fire, dropping gays head first off of buildings, suicide bombings, mass shootings etc... sure seems like evil headed by an Anti-Christ!

What's funny is I'm not even religious. However, If there's anything in the bible that predicts world events, it seems like this portion of it, is coming true today.



posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 08:34 AM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

You can never reform a religion. It's like saying reforming a gun to resolve mass killings.

The only thing you can do is educate those that adhere to a religion and have them reform themselves.



posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 08:58 AM
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You should focus on your own religions terrorists.

For how long have there been christians in the West?

And there are still acts of christian terrorism...



posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 09:06 AM
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originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: ChesterJohn
Actually , Islam in its original state does not need reforming. It is the other groups that bastardize the religious teachings that do.




Well, the birth of Islam and it's first decade of life is rather bloody, and hateful.
Right from the get go Muhammad was picked on and his followers were persecuted badly, driving him away from the place where he was met from the angel, later he returns and a bloody conflict begins, which is why Mecca is seen as the 'birth place' of Islam, from there Islam was a join us or die sort of cult to the rest of the world at the time.

It's kind of funny how the birth of Islam is rather similar to the story of Moses and the burning bush, but instead of God punishing the cow worshiping heathens, Muhammad just does it himself.



posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 09:08 AM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

You may be right. Look at how many hateful and intolerant Christians still exist and they talk about about being "reformed".



posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 09:11 AM
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originally posted by: WeRpeons
a reply to: ChesterJohn
What's funny is I'm not even religious. However, If there's anything in the bible that predicts world events, it seems like this portion of it, is coming true today.



Not really. There are a great many things in the past that have appeared to align with bible prophecy that haven't come true. I'd say a closer allegory would have been Hitler, but then again the world didn't end with WWII so whatever.



posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 09:16 AM
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originally posted by: strongfp

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: ChesterJohn
Actually , Islam in its original state does not need reforming. It is the other groups that bastardize the religious teachings that do.




Well, the birth of Islam and it's first decade of life is rather bloody, and hateful.
Right from the get go Muhammad was picked on and his followers were persecuted badly, driving him away from the place where he was met from the angel, later he returns and a bloody conflict begins, which is why Mecca is seen as the 'birth place' of Islam, from there Islam was a join us or die sort of cult to the rest of the world at the time.

It's kind of funny how the birth of Islam is rather similar to the story of Moses and the burning bush, but instead of God punishing the cow worshiping heathens, Muhammad just does it himself.


And when entering the Promised Land , what was God's order to the Hebrew ?




posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 09:19 AM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

Can Christianity be reformed? NO. It needs to be abolished, now! Look at the millions of deaths its responsible for, The Crusades.... more recently, the raping of children.

No you cannot rethink Christianity with the prophecy of worldwide destruction [e.g. Revelations].

Christianity needs to be driven out of our lands... or some other hate speech rhetoric ...yeah, thats it!


-----------------------------------------------



A good rule of thumb, whenever you want to say something about someone else. Say it about yourself, or an opposite group first, and ask yourself 'does it sound reasonable?'

"Blacks are ______ and _____ and they should be _______"

"Whites are ______ and _____ and they should be _______"

"Asians are ______ and _____ and they should be _______"

Hey wait a second, one of those is racist! Erm... ah wait. Before I get too PC on everyone though, yes there are stereotypes, and some stereotypes are not bred out of thin air. That still doesn't make them acceptable or right though. Can you be defined simply by your own races stereotype? Is that all there is to you as a person?

Your region? Are you defined by the absolute worst examples of it? Are the defined by the radicals, the off-shoots, the extremes of your religion? If you are then you might want to rethink your commitments to your god.
edit on 3-12-2015 by boncho because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-12-2015 by boncho because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 09:43 AM
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a reply to: boncho

This post should have been the OP!



posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 10:49 AM
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a reply to: babloyi

There are other teachings in Islam not found in the Quran, the Hadiths and other writings and interpretations also play a part in this. But that is the bottom line one world Global Islam with all under Sharia law.



posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 10:53 AM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

So you wouldn't want everyone Christian and a world united by Christ following all the rules in your own book?. Hasnt Christianity been attempting to spread the gospel to everyone for hundreds of years also?.
edit on 3-12-2015 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 10:59 AM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: babloyi

There are other teachings in Islam not found in the Quran, the Hadiths and other writings and interpretations also play a part in this. But that is the bottom line one world Global Islam with all under Sharia law.

Christians want the same thing. The whole world living under Christian law.




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