San Bernardino, Calif., fire units responding to reports of 20-victim shooting incident -

originally posted by: neo96



We have TWO shooters. That clearly planned, acquired resources, radicalized themselves.

Went on a shooting spree, and made bombs.

In other words the 'nutter' label is NOT applicable.

Columbine (multiple shooters)
Kazinski (Expert bomb maker)
And careful planning?...James Holmes and dozens of others..

How does any of what you cite exclude Nutter?

Or put a different way...Would a sane person do this?

What I think you are getting at is that religion was involved...which is a dangerous discriminating factor to employ.

People can be both crazy and devoutly religious.
Not all crazy people are religious..
and not all devoutly religious people are crazy..

If for no other reason than rationally figuring out if there is a way to decrease the risk of these events...we should be looking at the truth in an honest, objective manner.

Islam = the problem...Is both ideological pandering and logically false....It leads us in the direction that ISIS is trying to nudge us...the world at war and divided along religious lines.

a reply to: Indigo5

Columbine (multiple shooters)

Yeah I remember Columbine. That happened during the height of CLintons ASWB.

Go figure the Peoples Republic of California has them banned too.

Guess what ?

They didn't stop it.

a reply to: Indigo5

But these two folks were Muslims and they were in league with known international terrorists (ISIS and Al-Qaeda) that the FBI has been monitoring for a while now. This much is clear. Its also clear that these folks have been watching and reading a lot of radical Muslim propaganda.

Their religion is the same as these ISIS folks going around beheading people. The same religion of the people that brought Paris down to its knees.

You're completely ignoring the Elephant in the room and piecing together your argument in a way that only fits around your opinions.

Yes, religion very much played a role. These were radical Muslims that went into a CHRISTMAS party full of Christians with the goal of murdering them all.

RADICAL ISLAMIC TERRORISM.

We just got another taste of it here in America. More is coming too, its inevitable.

had tools that could be used to make improvised explosive devices

are they specialized tools that are needed to do this, or do we all have such tools in our homes?? just wondering here. seems odd that they would have that, if they are talking about simple wire cutters, screwdrivers, and such.

a reply to: theonenonlyone

Not going to stop though and if it bothers you, I am sorry for that.

I don't expect you to stop, and to be honest, I really don't care if you stop or not.

I was only upset because I didn' t think that you were aware that your efforts are having the opposite effects from what you claimed to be your mission.

Now that I know you are aware that you are turning people against Islam and Muslims, I can no longer be upset, since you seem to be quite aware of what you are doing.

a reply to: Bloodydagger

These were radical Muslims that went into a CHRISTMAS party full of Christians with the goal of murdering them all.

On small point of contention. This was a government sanctioned party, with employees encompassing numerous religious beliefs. This was a HOLIDAY party, and though it may have been attended by some Christians, that does not make it a Christmas party.

Sorry folks but in light of all the evidence these people were absolutely "Terrorist's" by the USA federal definition.

Bombs - Check ( Whether they went off or not )

Planned premeditated attack on innocent unarmed people - Check

Attack on a Government Facility and Workers- Check

Dressed for the occasion ( Premeditated ) - Check

Had many bombs at their house - Check

Killed as many people as they could - Check

Injured twice the amount - Check

If Timothy McVeigh was an American terrorist by definition, then so were these people. If these people had ties to radical Islamic organizations, then they were both American terrorist's and Islamic influenced terrorist's.

en.wikipedia.org...

Timothy James McVeigh (April 23, 1968 – June 11, 2001) was an American terrorist who detonated a truck bomb in front of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995

Commonly referred to as the Oklahoma City bombing, the attack killed 168 people and injured over 600

a reply to: dawnstar
Good question.
Almost everyone has the tools to make improvised explosives devices. That is the whole idea with improvising, you don't need fancy stuff to accomplish it.

originally posted by: WeDemBoyz
a reply to: Bloodydagger

These were radical Muslims that went into a CHRISTMAS party full of Christians with the goal of murdering them all.

On small point of contention. This was a government sanctioned party, with employees encompassing numerous religious beliefs. This was a HOLIDAY party, and though it may have been attended by some Christians, that does not make it a Christmas party.

It was a Christmas party though. Its been stated numerous times by the media.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: Chickensalad

I couldnt keep up and read the entire thread, but what happened to the suspect on foot? Did they just decide that it was an illusion or something?

saying he wasn't involved, funny though they haven't said they released him yet.

They aren't done waterboarding him.

Ok then if people want to attach 'crazy' to anytime someone kills 3 or more people at a time then what does that make the POTUS ?

Lots of people died in Libya when he bombed the hell out of it.

Lots of people have been droned in those mass drone attacks.

Using that standard.

The Potus has to be the most 'insane' person in the country.

a reply to: Bloodydagger

how do you know that the room was "full of christians"? heck wouldn't surprise me if there was a mixture of christian, athiest, just don't cares, hindus, and heck maybe even a few muslims thrown in. I mean I would venture to say that the those radical muslims have killed more muslims than any other group.

a reply to: dawnstar

are they specialized tools that are needed to do this, or do we all have such tools in our homes?? just wondering here. seems odd that they would have that, if they are talking about simple wire cutters, screwdrivers, and such

you forgot ball bearings, nails, explosives and such. add these to wire cutters, screwdrivers, pipe cutters, pipe threaders (unless they bought already cut and threaded pipe), remote controls for remote cars, hacksaws.

not odd at all.

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: queenofswords

I can tell you this, the government is making sure to get peoples mind to think that is all about gun control than accepting the fact that we have Islamic terrorist in the US, trained and well armed waiting for the right moment to attack anywhere and any body regardless of state.

I don't think there are enough drugs in the water (yet) Marg
to make all of us lay down for genocide like in a Paris theater.
I heard that story about the French attacks, and cogitated:
"We really haven't been THAT conditioned, have we?"

"It hasn't happened yet to ME-- so nothing to see right
here in front of my nose. Time to go back out and
scrape off the perches in a couple minutes; the chickens
have been roosting for a little over 14 years.


When something terrible happens right before another gun
control schpiel, I start associating the created problem with
the desired result. When the government benefits both ways,
it's a no-brainer... and so am I. (for all his shorts, I still kind of
miss Dubya compared to this clone we've got now)

a reply to: butcherguy

They aren't done waterboarding him.

good, maybe they'll find out who the other members of the cell are.

a reply to: Bloodydagger

Umm, it is illegal for government entities to promote one religion over another. So, unless they were also planning a Hanukkah party, Kwanzaa party, etc.; then this was a Holiday party; I don't care what the media wants to call it.

Per CNN....

Via CNN, of all places:

San Bernardino, California (CNN) [Breaking news update at 12:13 p.m. ET]

San Bernardino shooter Syed Rizwan Farook was in touch over the phone and via social media with more than one international terrorism subject who the FBI were already investigating, law enforcement officials said.

Like I stated earlier in this thread. We need to stop arguing over religion beliefs and decide how we are going to stop what you would consider the 'warriors' of a specific ideology.

This confirms that we have had the worst terror attack on US soil since 9/11. If you think this is the end you are gravely mistaken....

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Bloodydagger

how do you know that the room was "full of christians"? heck wouldn't surprise me if there was a mixture of christian, athiest, just don't cares, hindus, and heck maybe even a few muslims thrown in. I mean I would venture to say that the those radical muslims have killed more muslims than any other group.

Because saying "Christians" being at a Christmas party is a pretty good guess. Its like saying Muslims are at the Mosque. Yeah, there could very well be some different beliefs mixed in, but I bet they are in the minority.

originally posted by: WeDemBoyz
a reply to: Bloodydagger

Umm, it is illegal for government entities to promote one religion over another. So, unless they were also planning a Hanukkah party, Kwanzaa party, etc.; then this was a Holiday party; I don't care what the media wants to call it.

Who said anything about "promoting religion" there? It was a Christmas party. A Christmas party in the month of December isn't exactly a revelation here in America, ROFL

originally posted by: Bloodydagger

originally posted by: WeDemBoyz
a reply to: Bloodydagger

Umm, it is illegal for government entities to promote one religion over another. So, unless they were also planning a Hanukkah party, Kwanzaa party, etc.; then this was a Holiday party; I don't care what the media wants to call it.

Who said anything about "promoting religion" there? It was a Christmas party. A Christmas party in the month of December isn't exactly a revelation here in America, ROFL

It was a "Holiday Party' according to the Los Angeles Times

www.latimes.com...

Dressed in black masks and tactical gear, armed with long guns and pistols, they entered a holiday party for county health workers in San Bernardino as it was in full swing. Before they fled, they had killed 14 people and wounded 17 others.