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Young whites' are losing faith in the American Dream

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posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 09:48 AM
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a reply to: DAVID64

I work construction, no pride but got self respect. Live on PBJ and bank the rest. Got good credit get the house loan soon. Pay off additional principal on 15 year note less than a decade got an investment slot on a real estate project. Night school ensures go from grunt to management 5 or so years by the time invest have the experience homebuild GC for my own investment buddies.

It's easy, just gotta think long term.
edit on 2-12-2015 by ringdingdong because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 09:56 AM
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originally posted by: ringdingdong
a reply to: DAVID64

I work construction, no pride but got self respect. Live on PBJ and bank the rest. Got good credit get the house loan soon. Pay off additional principal on 15 year note less than a decade got an investment slot on a real estate project. Night school ensures go from grunt to management 5 or so years by the time invest have the experience homebuild GC for my own investment buddies.

It's easy, just gotta think long term.


You must be on the younger side. In the 90's, droves of experienced people left construction or got forced out and never came back (including engineers, architects, planners and city officials related to permitting). Its not as stable as you are imagining, same goes for the oil industry. Pay can be good while it lasts, but regular, predicable, boom and bust cycles, typically weed out everybody except the superstars (and no, not every industry is like this).

My understanding is that Millennials want stability in their careers and if they cannot get it, they will completely "drop the idea" of the "American Dream" and "hang out instead". Big business and government can choose to listen to this message that Millennials are giving them OR they can ignore it and suffer the consequences of a disengaged populace that doesn't want to have children, nor will finance homes or cars.
edit on 2-12-2015 by boohoo because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 09:59 AM
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a reply to: boohoo

Cowboy, not dumb. We got insane growth in this state.

Boom and bust to your advantage in property management. I'll be working all angles.
edit on 2-12-2015 by ringdingdong because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 10:04 AM
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a reply to: ringdingdong

If you're in Texas, you have a steady job for the foreseeable future. Every. damn. time! I come through the Dallas/Ft Worth area, they're building something. New roads, overpasses, bridges and buildings are going up everywhere.
edit on 2-12-2015 by DAVID64 because: typo



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 10:04 AM
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originally posted by: ringdingdong
a reply to: boohoo

Cowboy, not dumb. We got insane growth in this state.

Boom and bust to your advantage in property management. I'll be working all angles.


I already lived this, all I can say is save your money. But hey, you're the next Donald Trump right? Unlike in the past, its takes parental money and support to make real money today. The way Trump, Zuckerberg, Gates and Bezos made money, using parental leverage, is the model of the future. Millennials know this fact, older X'ers and young Boomers do not. These days, smart and ambitious rich kids will always eat your lunch, whether you believe it or nor.
edit on 2-12-2015 by boohoo because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 10:06 AM
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a reply to: DAVID64

I'm in DFW our company in all major metropolitan areas of Texas were expanding like crazy working insane hours banking well. State grown 2 million last 4 years no sign of stopping.



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 10:09 AM
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a reply to: boohoo

Most rich spoil. Much new monies made from scratch. I don't care about the top maybe never reach it besides the point not gonna be jaded over living well vs super elite.

Hedge your bets play the trends. Bad to buy good to sell. Bad to own good to rent. Not complicated.



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 10:10 AM
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originally posted by: ringdingdong
a reply to: DAVID64

I'm in DFW our company in all major metropolitan areas of Texas were expanding like crazy working insane hours banking well. State grown 2 million last 4 years no sign of stopping.


Growth doesn't equal wages and jobs. Perma-contract work and Uberization makes more profits for those at the top and reduces pay for those at the bottom, while inflation eats those earning at a faster rate than can be replenished.

There was a big tech boom in Dallas in the 70's and I had a relative who had to practically give away a house that was worthless when it all crashed, BUT, he saved most of the previous windfall and was able to leave the state comfortably.
edit on 2-12-2015 by boohoo because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 10:14 AM
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a reply to: boohoo

Seriously you're just jaded. We got lots of jobs at decent wages here. Your relative was desperate or a fool. Dallas didn't die. Should have rented and held out for the bounce back.
edit on 2-12-2015 by ringdingdong because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 10:26 AM
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originally posted by: ringdingdong
a reply to: DAVID64

I work construction, no pride but got self respect. Live on PBJ and bank the rest. Got good credit get the house loan soon. Pay off additional principal on 15 year note less than a decade got an investment slot on a real estate project. Night school ensures go from grunt to management 5 or so years by the time invest have the experience homebuild GC for my own investment buddies.

It's easy, just gotta think long term.


Doesn't sound like you are much of a dingdong, you might have to change your name


You sound like you are aware of what apparently is a secret:
Stay not within your means but below your means to save enough to buy that freedom. Most people haven't figured out from what I have seen. Freedom is in no debt to very little debt instead of Expensive cars, McMansions, Latest gadgets, etc..

edit on 421231America/ChicagoWed, 02 Dec 2015 10:42:58 -0600000000p3142 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 10:27 AM
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originally posted by: ringdingdong
a reply to: boohoo

Most rich spoil. Much new monies made from scratch. I don't care about the top maybe never reach it besides the point not gonna be jaded over living well vs super elite.

Hedge your bets play the trends. Bad to buy good to sell. Bad to own good to rent. Not complicated.


Spoil? Don't make me laugh

You clearly have no idea about how money works at the top do you?

Where do you think the money for construction projects comes from? You don't seem to know whom is really paying you and inflating the values of the properties you hold. The "super elite" can cut off your revenue streams and reduce your buying power ANY TIME they choose. They matter a WHOLE lot more than you seem to be able to imagine.

When I look at the Forbes 400, I see roughly 350+ people whom came from wealthy families. Some of them certainly acquired more wealth than their parents had given them to begin with, but VERY FEW, if any, came from what I would consider a typical Middle class backgrounds or less. I would even ague that to get on the Forbes 400 list, coming from “at least” an Upper Middle class family is the minimum requirement.

I typically use four well known examples, where being from the Upper Middle class was a base requirement to enter a particular industry with even an inkling of chance for long term financial success:

Bill Gates had access to a mainframe computer in High School in 1969. My parents of same age didn’t use or see a computer until the early 1980’s and even then it was something they only experienced and got trained to use at their jobs. Is it really that surprising that he was able to enter that market before many others and make money?

Mark Zuckerberg got his first computer around 12 years old and at some point his father hired someone to tutor him in programing. That computer adjusted for inflation would probably be worth close to $3,000-$4,000 today, not including tutoring costs. To put things into perspective my father had a computer in the early 1990’s in his home office that cost him about $3,000 and my younger brother was not allowed to ever touch it. To put things into perspective, my brothers used car in high school cost less to buy at the time than that computer, let alone tutoring costs to go along with it. Is it really that surprising that he was able to enter that market before many others and make money?

Jeff Bezos claims he paid for college on his own dime and at some point started Amazon with his own money, HOWEVER, he admits there was a point where he needed financial help/loan to keep the business afloat. Eventually he went to his parents who loaned him $300,000 after taking out a second mortgage on their home. How many parents here on ATS would give their children a $300,000 loan, leveraged against their PAID OFF home for a start-up business? Is it really that surprising that he was able to enter that market before many others and make money?

Donald Trump, well what do I need to say here, he inherited his fathers $40 million dollar real estate business. Its certainly not surprising that he was able to enter that market before many others and make money?

Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying any of the above people were not “smart and motivated” and to date they certainly have earned their “keep”, but at the same time, lets not also fool ourselves. If they had come from any lower class background than they did, their greatest achievements in life would have been greatly diminished because the “bar” would be lower due to their “spring boards” also being lowered. Bill Gates at best would be a 6 figure VP or Pres at a software company today, Mark Z would be a 6 figure star programmer at Google or Riot games, Jeff Bezos would be a top Costco regional or district manager pulling in 6 figures and Donald Trump would be a small time developer working with much less capital.

I’ve seen this many times in life, you can’t be a dummy and turn wealth into more wealth; but being smart in turn also won’t allow to you to rub to nickels together, with no family connections or support and then be able to turn those two nickels into multi-million dollar company in 20 years, certainly not circa 1999-2015. You could have done that after the war in 1945, but that was a TOTALLY different world in terms of codes, regulations and financial polices. We don’t live in that world anymore. If you want to see how money is actually made today, look up how the “Riot Games” founders got their first $1 million venture capitalist investor. I’ll give you a hint, daddy gave it to them.

Basically, if can’t do it the way these guys did it, you’re not going to find much REAL success today, due to the way the market, codes, regulations and financial polices have been structured in the last 15 years. There are no more Henry Fords or Thomas Edison’s, today those types of people are simply someones employee, whom will NEVER have enough capital to start a real business.

Based on your logic, Riot Games, with a a projected $1 BILLION in revenue for 2015 is going to "spoil" because "daddy" gave them their "start-up" money.

Can I laugh any harder at you?

Millennials want stability in their careers and if they cannot get it, they will completely "drop the idea" of the "American Dream" and "hang out instead". Big business and government can choose to listen to this message that Millennials are giving them OR they can ignore it and suffer the consequences of a disengaged populace that doesn't want to have children, nor will finance homes or car purchases.


originally posted by: ringdingdong
a reply to: boohoo

Seriously you're just jaded. We got lots of jobs at decent wages here. Your relative was desperate or a fool. Dallas didn't die. Should have rented and held out for the bounce back.


I'm not destitute, I'm also not jaded and will have a nice retirement when the time comes. Unlike people like you, I've actually been high up enough in the ranks to see how things really work. One day you'll find out when some bank or wealthy developer wants to eat you lunch and you won't have the capital to fight back. Only then will you remember the contents of this post.

Things worked out fine for my relative BTW, he made more money off property in Hawaii than he EVER would have made in Dallas. he cut his loses and put the money elsewhere, where the opportunity cost was better.
edit on 2-12-2015 by boohoo because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 10:28 AM
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Who can blame them for having a bad work ethic? A lot of companies today pay you as little as possible with few benefits and expect you to break your ass for them. Getting uninsured temps doesn't exactly get you the most motivated of people. You get what you pay for.



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 10:32 AM
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originally posted by: korath
Who can blame them for having a bad work ethic? A lot of companies today pay you as little as possible with few benefits and expect you to break your ass for them. Getting uninsured temps doesn't exactly get you the most motivated of people. You get what you pay for.


"Bootstrappers" will NEVER understand this. They are perfectly conditioned worker bee's, despite their endless claims of being "entrepreneurial".



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 10:48 AM
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"What happened to the American dream?"

"It came true." -- The Comedian.

Idiots said the same thing about Gen X too. Back in the 90's, we were lazy slackers who lived at home on mom and dads couch. Nevermind that many of us had parents so dysfunctional that we were emancipated, lived on our own and paid our own way since we were 15 or so.

"Get a good job, work your way up from the bottom. Work harder than the person next to you," are Hallmark Greeting card platitudes in an era of globalization, downsizing, layoffs and the collapse of entire industries. For example, I started at ATT in 97 (in the mailroom), worked my way up to the top occupational grade (Nodals / Frame Relay, maintenance and provisioning tech) and was still laid off in 2002, after buying my first house and having a child. In the years that followed I watched Carlie downsize 30K of my fellow HPian's, no matter how hard we worked.

The simple truth is a JOB will never keep pace with artificially created inflation. And it is artificial, because it is manipulated by the kids who never grew out of their obsession with Monopoly and who aren't motivated by anything else. These are the people we hold up as heroes. Not doctors, or nurses, EMT's or teachers. And this is the world we get for it.

Me? I live simply, hustle for myself, raise my 2 kids without much assistance from their mom, and never watch TV. I don't give 2 pennies for the so called "American Dream" and I don't have to. There are far better dreams than working for some Corporate nightmare, or hustling for a small biz owner's BMW while my wages stagnate because of inflation. I'm sure there are plenty of takers still. Hell -- even Amway is still in business. Something something born every minute.



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 10:49 AM
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a reply to: boohoo

Got it. Presumptuous jaded fool. Communication ceased.



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 10:55 AM
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originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
"What happened to the American dream?"

"It came true." -- The Comedian.

The simple truth is a JOB will never keep pace with artificially created inflation. And it is artificial, because it is manipulated by the kids who never grew out of their obsession with Monopoly and who aren't motivated by anything else. These are the people we hold up as heroes. Not doctors, or nurses, EMT's or teachers. And this is the world we get for it.


You are so right, yet people like ringdingdong want to keep banging the drum of Hallmark Greeting card platitudes in an era of globalization, downsizing, layoffs and the collapse of entire industries.



originally posted by: ringdingdong
a reply to: boohoo

Got it. Presumptuous jaded fool. Communication ceased.


Not open for discussion I see? You are definitely working class,to the bone. So, according to you, we are not allowed to disagree about the current market conditions in America and then have a debate about whether one's positions is stronger than another? I have no fear in continuing the discussion and countering your points, while based on your last post, it seems you have no real ability to formulate rebuttals to any of my points.


originally posted by: ringdingdong
It's gonna take 15 years for me to build a fortune


Remember YOU were the one whom said they were going to build a fortune, I just brought you back down to reality. Note, I never said that you could not have a good life, own a business or build a healthy nest egg, but in the real world those things ARE NOT a fortune.

Again, where do you think the money for construction projects comes from? You don't seem to know whom is really paying you and at the same time inflating the values of the properties you hold or work on for wages. The "super elite", AS YOU CALL THEM, can cut off your revenue streams and reduce your buying power ANY TIME they choose.
edit on 2-12-2015 by boohoo because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 11:10 AM
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Literally headed for a meeting with some oilfield big wig....

Waiting to hear back from some corrections facilities. These are my best opportunities at success.

I would much rather be self sufficient and help bring the system down but have a beautiful family to feed.

So ya, pretty screwed but willing to make it work.

I want to be honorable and struggle, but may one day face a choice where I have to do what I have to do to climb the ladder.

29 year old, mutt, optimistic about life, pessimistic about the "American dream".....

Better go shave........

Great OP

Awesome post by benevolent heretic.....

Peace.
edit on 2-12-2015 by GoShredAK because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 11:58 AM
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a reply to: wasaka

My two cents...



The system does not reward you for honest hard work.


While nothing in life is guaranteed, I wholeheartedly disagree with that statement. I am evidence to the contrary (even without a college degree). My wife is evidence to the contrary (even without a college degree...yet). Dozens of people that I have known for years is evidence to the contrary.




"Well, are you now ready to admit to yourself and the whole world that you have been lied too? "


What is the big lie, exactly? That hard work gives you a decent chance at having a fruitful future? That's not a lie at all, as far as I can tell and from what I've seen and experienced.




"Are you now ready to get real?"

Our system does reward dishonesty.
Indeed it reward many shameful practices.
As long as the shame is legal, the rich get richer.

I think this is the most telling part of your post. I have seen statements like this more times than I care to remember put forward by people with little or no expectations of themselves (I'm not claiming to know you so I can't say for sure if this is you or not). "You have to be a bad person to succeed. It's so messed up that since I am just SUCH a good person I don't have a chance to make it." A load of malarkey.

While it is true that some people do handle themselves in a dishonest, backstabbing sort of way. Many people (myself included) have worked for years in years and NEVER screwed over another person or another company.



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 12:34 PM
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a reply to: eluryh22

The trend I've seen is pushing out the crooks from their group and valuing people of good character. I don't group with jerks and know to leave the fools be and keep on pushing.


edit on 2-12-2015 by ringdingdong because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 12:35 PM
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a reply to: boohoo


I'm not destitute, I'm also not jaded and will have a nice retirement when the time comes. Unlike people like you, I've actually been high up enough in the ranks to see how things really work. One day you'll find out when some bank or wealthy developer wants to eat you lunch and you won't have the capital to fight back. Only then will you remember the contents of this post.


This ^^^ is absolute truth and is just the tip of the iceberg. As more and more wealth is amassed by the few, and therefore more and more power, it will only continue to get worse. Those who don't see it yet will someday.

Excellent post. I would give you a big hug if I could... and if you would let me






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