US Cops v UK Cops (handcuffs)

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Speaking of rights, I'm curious what the deal is if arrested in the US, how long can they hold you etc?
This is the UK situation:

The police can hold you for up to 24 hours before they have to charge you with a crime or release you.

They can apply to hold you for up to 36 or 96 hours if you’re suspected of a serious crime, eg murder.

You can be held without charge for up to 14 days If you’re arrested under the Terrorism Act.

www.gov.uk...

Oh, and we never have to raise any money/bonds to get bail, it's free in the UK although the police can impose conditions such as a curfew or whatever.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: andy06shake

Police Scotland are a bit feisty though from what I hear, same as South Wales Police.
Devon & Cornwall are pretty chilled in my experience though, cuffed in front if calm, behind if 'troublesome' lol.
Less than one in ten even have a Tazer here though, and as one of the most underfunded police areas in the UK, but the biggest geographical area in England, they are well outnumbered and they know it.
Probably explains why they are mostly chilled and decent. They're more scared of the communities than the other way around.

In the old days it was well know that Strathclyde Police were the most fond of a bit of recreational brutality. Not sure what it is like post amalgamation as (thankfully) not had much experience.

a reply to: ScepticScot

I think all the constabularies have changed their behaviour since the overwhelming roll-out of CCTV in police cars, stations, cells, etc.
I took more than a few batterings in police custody back in the 80's, with no record of the cell visits in the custody book.

I'm of the opinion that when the old-school cops had to stop the beatings due to being recorded, the new recruits have been trained differently and a culture of professionalism has developed in all police areas.
When people whine that the UK is getting worse I strongly disagree. Our nation is a much better place than it was in the 70's and 80's, remember 'gay bashing' open racism and all the other bigoted # that was 'normal' back then.

a reply to: grainofsand

Apparently, there is no universal mandate here in the U.S., but 72 hours seems to be the average limit on holding without being charged. But I'm also quite certain that there has to be reasonable suspicion of a crime in order to detain someone in the first place...that 72-hour detention time, I assume, is so that evidence can be gathered and shown to prosecutors in order to determine if charges are appropriate.

Link

As for bond, anyone with any intelligence knows that this is just a way for the system to get a little money from people who may flee or disobey judges' orders before trial.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Ah cheers for that, I was curious
...I've had some amusement before now teasing the cops that they have only an hour or so left to charge me or let me go. Those 24 hours are enshrined in law here and they need damn good evidence/reasonable suspicion to convince a magistrate to extend it.

a reply to: grainofsand

As it should be.

I think 72 hours is a ridiculous amount of time to hold someone and then be like, "Oh, sorry, we aren't charging you. Hope you can get those three days of your life back."

a reply to: SlapMonkey

I wouldn't want an increase from 24 to 72 hours police holding time in the UK, but even if we got that I would still enjoy the chuckle teasing them when their 72 hours were running out.
The whole police/justice interaction thing appears to be a vastly different beast in the US compared to the UK.

*Edit*
Police custody in the UK is the least scary thing in the world, almost reassuring because you can shut your eyes and sleep knowing CCTV is watching you and cops are keeping you safe haha!
...the worst bit is boredom, hence curling up and falling asleep to avoid it.

originally posted by: grainofsandThe whole police/justice interaction thing appears to be a vastly different beast in the US compared to the UK.

Maybe the technicalities, but if you're not an idiot to the LEOs and you haven't don't something stupid with your actions toward the them, you generally are let off with a warning and everyone goes on their merry way. The crap you see on the news and in the Posse Commitatus (sp?) forum are not indicative of the average of how our police/justice interactions go.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

I mostly agree, but it does make a massive difference when the police officer in your face only has a stick to attack you with, and knows the armed response unit could be 20 minutes away...they are generally less aggressive and prick-like then.
We as a society are then generally less prick-like ourselves in response.

a reply to: grainofsand

Agreed, but like I said, the vast, VAST majority of LEO interactions in the U.S. do not entail the officer reaching or gesturing toward their weapon in any sort of aggressive fashion. Here, it's just another part of the uniform, unless you're some sort of ne'er-do-well ruffian (sorry, had to go old-man there) acting like an idiot.

I've done the research and the math before--I'm not doing it again--but when you look at how many interactions with LEOs there are every year in the US and compare that with ones that involve forceful police interaction, the percentage would be a statistical anomaly and disregarded altogether if it weren't such a hot political topic. And then if you break it down to those that use unjustified force, and you could barely see the percentage with an electron microscope.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

I don't disagree with you as I don't know the stats, but just throwing it out there, what you reckon the difference in police area situations of 'unjustified force' would be?
I'm sure I'd rather be nicked by a UK cop than US, only from seeing lots of police brutality on youtube and ATS yet struggling to find any at all from the UK.

a reply to: grainofsand

Hmmm...I did a quick Google search for "UK police brutality" and looked under "videos" and there was no shortage of links to videos on YouTube. Of course, just like with the US videos, no all that are labeled "police brutality" are in fact police brutality, but even so, I fail to see how you could say that you're struggling to find any at all.

As for your first question, I'm not exactly sure what you're asking...

a reply to: SlapMonkey

I was just curious about the clear differences in police brutality by area, even here in the UK it varies by region. London 'Met' police are more likely to hit first and ask questions later than say rural Devon & Cornwall where I live.
Then consider the constant stream of videos from the US, heck there's even a dedicated forum on ATS for it.

I know the usual argument is that the US has a bigger population but even so, 5 times the population of the UK you would expect for every 5 vids from the States then there should be 1 from the UK. There is not though.
With that in mind I stand by my statement that I'd rather be nicked by a UK cop than US.

You are correct of course that UK 'police brutality' videos on youtube are generally not brutal at all, I don't really watch any now because they are usually people whining about nothing.
It is easy to find shocking vids of US police though, and I'll say again, at 5 times the population of the UK I would expect at least one shocking vid from the UK for every 5 from the US. I don't.

I would suggest that there is a problem in policing in the US which is not shared in the UK.
Perhaps you feel differently, and believe that police violence is the same in both nations? I don't buy that myself though. Post the worst UK police violence you can find and I'm sure I can raise ya easily.

a reply to: grainofsand

Yeah, obviously big-city areas tend to see more of the excessive force that smaller towns and rural areas--either that, or it's just more likely to be recorded and/or reported. But I'm quite certain that it's a proven statistic that more heavily/densely populated areas experience more crime, more police interaction, and therefore it would stand to reason that they also experience more interactions that result in excessive force just by the sheer volume of interactions.

But keep in mind that population means nothing in the way that you're using it--you need to look at total police interactions, and since the US seems to rely heavily on burdensome laws and over-zealous policing, it's no wonder that we have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world. I think that this is a more useful stat than just comparing population, because I can find a collection of cities that equals the UK population that has a very low crime/incarceration rate, and then I could do the same where the collective rate would be higher than many Central-American countries.

With a nation the size of the US, it's hard to compare it to any one other nation, because much like Europe, we have areas of the country with different cultures and philosophies than other areas--comparing the Deep South to the Pacific Nonrthwest, for instance, or the Southwestern area to the New England area. It'd be like comparing the cultures of the UK and Spain and pretending that they should be the same when they're not. So, comparisons are hard to do with the US, and a lot of people tend to forget that.

I agree that the US police are much more forceful and overbearing AT TIMES, but that's not the norm, as I've mentioned before. Each city, county, and state have their own police with their own objectives and local priorities and SOPs, so if you don't take each case as it comes, generalizing muddies the water and makes claims border on illogical.

But as far as the UK policing goes, I don't have an educated opinion either way, because I don't live there and I've never been. But living in the US and in the different regions that I have, I know that the brutality that is on display in the media and ATS is not the norm--far from it, actually.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Thanks for the interesting and reasoned reply
I get the 'police interaction' thing, makes a lot of sense, and also the vast differences between your individual states.
Heck, many of your states are bigger than a lot of EU nations so comparisons are difficult on a national level.

I'd like to visit the US one day but I must admit that the image of 'authority' over there kind of puts me off, even down to your border officials, every friend of mine who has visited has come back with stories of an aggressive and unfriendly welcome. Anecdotal and hearsay of course but I never hear stories like that from say Canada.

I've got relatives in Canada so it's more likely I'll visit there before the US, and when I do I'd quite like to get to a rural part of the US border and get a picture of one foot illegally on the US side. Not sure if that is a stupid idea though, wouldn't wanna get shot for a picture!

a reply to: grainofsand

LOL, and you wouldn't get shot for the picture.

I'll admit that our customs people can be downright dicks, but at the same time (comparing to Canada), we have an underlying reason to be. But at least it's not like when I landed in Germany when I was stationed there--I got off the plane and saw security walking around with dogs and black rifles at the ready. Sure, maybe they didn't pat me down, but that's slightly more of a shock to the system for me than if some idiotic customs person is a little pushy.

But you know, every time I go through customs or security, I never have a problem. Maybe it's how I approach them, who knows. A little kindness and humor can go a long way when dealing with people whose job it is not to let that one thing past them that could cause major issues or loss of life. Even when I took a firearm with me to Alaska it was no hassle, and I wanted to go down and watch them inspect my bag to ensure that it didn't somehow disappear from my bag. No hassles then, either.

But if you even take that pic, post it here. Of course, in the country, I doubt that there are signs every 50 feet noting the border...but who knows. There's not a fence, I know that much.

Here's a non-PC joke for ya:

Why doesn't Mexico have a winning Olympic team?



Because anyone who can run, jump, or swim is already in the U.S.

badump tshhh

I'm here all week.

a reply to: CraftBuilder

I can pick in virtually any position, unless someone breaks my wrists and fingers.

Front or back, makes no odds to me what so ever.

a reply to: TrueBrit

A valuable life skill nowadays.