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Russia says NATO accepts reponsibility for downing of Russian Su-24 jet

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posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 02:26 PM
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a reply to: DJW001




is like saying that Russia supports the Taliban because Afghan heroin is flying into Russia in front of corrupt border guards noses.


To be fair that could actually happen, as we know how bad corruption in Russia is.




posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 08:41 PM
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NATO did speak on behalf of Turkey, And said that Turkey airspace is also NATO airspace. There is no doubt that NATO covers for Turkey.....period.

Russia is calling NATOs bluff, they have been doing it al along. Russia said just 12 hours ago that they are ready to work With Turkey, NATO and US allies in the fight against ISIS. But everyone should know that wont happen.

Turkey and the US/NATO are to occumped building their moderet rebels around Mosul.



edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2015 @ 12:22 AM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Hundreds of tankers, enough to see from orbit, across a hair-trigger border would not go unnoticed by the Turkish government.
Even the USA acknowledges oil smuggled into Turkey.
Your rebuttal lacks the very basic foundations of thought
logic/reason.
edit on 21-12-2015 by all2human because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2015 @ 12:50 AM
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originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: all2human




To suggest the government of Turkey was/is unaware of such transfers is akin to declaring reader's brain-dead.


So the government knows all about every corrupt person in the government, and allows them to work to help ISIS?

Care to back up that claim?



this is not a back up claim but the way I see it

the corrupt person is the goverment

I can throw in proof from any media side to back up this claims (you know one of those 'Russia has proof of smuggling bs things)

I just ask you if you think it is possible to have one person in charge the head of the government who was put into a situation that goes something like this

look mr president you want to make a percentage of a $trillion ? (Current estimate of smuggled oil) just close an eye on this boarder for a moment no one will know

this way there is no blame on NATO, Turkey, Russia, USA but on 1 corrupted man in charge even the moral he would be thinking he is not a terrorist he doesn't have to support terrorist idealogy he is not allowing bombing in the name of god this is pure business (didn't have to be terrorists and oil but any supplier and any good imaginable)

this is as simple as showing you evidence that your president someone who you supported with your vote is involved in black market.. it's still happening in third world countries but this is not acceptable in those nations.. we are ethical and should serve as an example you don't put up with corruption on this level.. people the tax payers fund the goverment they are the ones who deserve the truth

again no proof no claims but this is just what I think it's happening



posted on Dec, 21 2015 @ 05:09 AM
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a reply to: Layaly

ISIS make trade through Fake Humanitarian Aid and Cooperations with Qatar and Saudi Arabia, FaceBook might be involved through owning WhatsApp . There are aid foundations created for them so that they can circulate their Money into different channels. One of them are the Non Leathal Aid program... which is said to be set up to help modereate rebels.

ISIS use WhatsApp and Kik to transfer Money between the different Aid accounts. Kik is very much use because there is no Telephone number needed. But both WhatsApp and Kik have PGS tracking so it should not be hard for Our governments to know where the transfers are made from.

Large amount of cash is also being physically transfered directly to these Aid Groups situated inside Syria and Northern Iraq. The white Helmets are accused of being one of these aid Groups helping to transport physical cash to different aid accounts.



posted on Dec, 21 2015 @ 06:10 AM
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originally posted by: all2human
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Hundreds of tankers, enough to see from orbit, across a hair-trigger border would not go unnoticed by the Turkish government.
Even the USA acknowledges oil smuggled into Turkey.
Your rebuttal lacks the very basic foundations of thought
logic/reason.


Now all you have to do is prove that the oil is not coming from Kurdistan or Iran. So long as the end user thinks it's Kurdish, it doesn't matter where its coming from, does it?



posted on Dec, 21 2015 @ 07:02 AM
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a reply to: spy66

... The f**** nice reply

Respect thx for that one .. your additional info just mind screwed me ..

I get it but crap I don't know anymore

edit on 21-12-2015 by Layaly because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2015 @ 07:06 AM
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a reply to: DJW001



Now all you have to do is prove that the oil is not coming from Kurdistan or Iran. So long as the end user thinks it's Kurdish, it doesn't matter where its coming from, does it?


meaning?
edit on 21-12-2015 by Layaly because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2015 @ 08:23 AM
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a reply to: Layaly


meaning?


Do you know where the oil that got refined into the gas in your car was pumped out of the ground? Do you care?



posted on Dec, 21 2015 @ 09:18 AM
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a reply to: DJW001

I meant meaning as can you explain to me what is happening with the oil here from scratch
(if u have the energy for it)

I can't tell what is really happening here
correct me wrong I think we are talking about a trillion dollar worth of oil that has not been accounted for that would be illegal

if I just answer your question when I go to petrol station to buy petrol no I don't care where it is from but I guarantee if I asked to tell me to show evidence of where and how and from who has it been purchased from a legitimate purchase would surely show and prove that

if I was the petrol station would it f*** me of dude next door sells stolen oil when I had to pay for mine - yes would I dob them in - yes





edit on 21-12-2015 by Layaly because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2015 @ 09:30 AM
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a reply to: Layaly

Quite simply: no one person really knows; that is how smuggling works. All the guys in the trucks know is where they loaded up. They have no idea where the oil came from originally. When the oil crosses the border, the border guard does not care because he has been paid off. When it is off-loaded the workers only know who is paying them, not where the oil came from, and when the middlemen sell it to the end users they say: "It's cheap. What do you care where it came from?" Even the middlemen only know who their contacts are, and what bank account to transfer the money to.



posted on Dec, 21 2015 @ 09:39 AM
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a reply to: DJW001

Ffs, give it up already. For what you say to be remotely possible, it must mean that there is no coalition fighting ISIS, there is no airforce there, no intelligence agency is using the vast array of methods at their disposal to observe and react to what is going on in the terrorist territory.

In other words, what you are saying is that IS can do as they like and the coalition's war on them is completely bogus.

Agreed.



posted on Dec, 21 2015 @ 09:49 AM
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a reply to: HardBoiled


Ffs, give it up already. For what you say to be remotely possible, it must mean that there is no coalition fighting ISIS, there is no airforce there, no intelligence agency is using the vast array of methods at their disposal to observe and react to what is going on in the terrorist territory.


That is not what I said at all. I am explaining why Putin cannot produce any evidence that the tanker trucks he claims are carrying oil from Daesh are what he says they are. I'm sure the FSB knows which bank accounts on Cypress are moving funds around, but that might implicate the wrong sort of person.

Meanwhile, the coalition has to be very careful not to cause civilian damage, even if it means not bombing trucks that may provide Daesh with income. Russia does not have such qualms. How many convoys has it destroyed? They were claiming to have destroyed 500 tankers a few weeks ago. How many since then? Why are they letting some slip by? Is it possible some of them are carrying embargoed Iranian oil? Who knows?
edit on 21-12-2015 by DJW001 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2015 @ 10:13 AM
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a reply to: DJW001

if you were the president someone tells or accuses you that there is billions of dollars worth of oil going illegally through your boarder and being sold illegally in you country what would you do


EDIT

here everyone who buys and sells goods or services is subject to audit it is the same all around the world
if audited you would have to immediately provide the paperwork if you aren't doing anything illegal you would have no problem proving it


2nd EDIT

Agreed with the no bombing

Q if there was trucks loaded with whatever going from let's say Mexico through USA boarder tell me how would it look like

Please tell me USA would just let them through without evidence of transferring legal goods then and there
how difficult is this


last edit I had to re read it a few times

RE: the smuggling

no one knows fair enough
but these are daily convoys of 70-100 tankers going through for months in one area and no one is bothering to check ?
edit on 21-12-2015 by Layaly because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2015 @ 12:50 PM
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a reply to: DJW001

Please, why don't they bomb the roads? No need to blow the oil wells but why don't they bomb the distribution stations and all infrastructure around it.

Come on man, stop this embarrasing charade.
edit on 21-12-2015 by HardBoiled because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 3 2016 @ 06:57 PM
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Eh, the whole thing is wonky.
This is defiantly a Psyop on Russia's part. A good one one to.
By putting NATO on the spot and claiming that they took responsibly it can alleviate any guilt Russia had in the airspace violation.
If NATO says no we did not authorize any such thing, then that gives Russia the soft go ahead to do more things like this...

www.washingtontimes.com...
edit on 3-1-2016 by Punisher75 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 3 2016 @ 09:13 PM
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a reply to: HardBoiled


Please, why don't they bomb the roads? No need to blow the oil wells but why don't they bomb the distribution stations and all infrastructure around it.


Because Russian, not American, contractors would profit.



posted on Jan, 24 2016 @ 01:20 PM
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a reply to: Sparkymedic

Never know how Putin gonna react



posted on Jan, 24 2016 @ 03:00 PM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: benwyatt


I'm of the opinion the turks can only be thinking one of two things. Either they are following orders (USA), or, they have truly went "rogue" and think NATO will back their escalation.


You are overlooking the possibility that Ankara is certain that it can defeat Russia in a regional conflict without NATO's help. Russia, for all its boasts, has limited resources that are spread thin. They can't pull troops off of any of their borders, and they can't be certain that Turkey cannot destroy its assets in Syria. Turkey can certainly close the Bosporus and strangle Crimea. No, Erdogan is making a bid to be Top Dog by challenging the current Big Dog. Significantly, all Putin has done is impose sanctions.


Turkey seems to be a bit dysfunctional and fractionated, half the population are European looking and the other half seem to be have an Islamic revival, their country too is being torn with a great deal of upheaval. We might be looking at a N.A.T.O. country going the way of another middle eastern failed state or best fractionated. A few years ago the economy was doing well, but now its heading south, which is bad for unrest.



posted on Jan, 30 2016 @ 04:39 AM
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originally posted by: benwyatt
By ‘covering’ Turkey politically, NATO took responsibility for downing of Russian Su-24 – envoy



By refusing to render an opinion on Turkey’s “intentional” downing of Russia’s bomber over Syria, and instead providing Ankara with political backing, NATO’s leadership has taken responsibility for the incident, Russia’s NATO envoy, Aleksandr Grushko, said.


Well, i see the escalation continues. What do you guys think will come of this? I kind of see the U.S. with it's back against the wall. With all the political discontent at home, maybe uncle sam is betting on a world war to "unite" its people against a common enemy?

This is just Russia's usual tact. Blame everyone else for your stupidity. And if that isn't working, make up some unplausable story to cover yourself. China does the same all the time. It seems to be a Communist way of dealing wth problems. Communist propaganda relies heavily on the populations total fear of contradicting the official party line to get away with this childish nonsense. However they have never figured out that this stuff just does not fly outside in the West. It's one of both Russia's and China's greatest weaknesses.




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