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Russia says NATO accepts reponsibility for downing of Russian Su-24 jet

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posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 08:40 AM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: Layaly


You realise someone has lost a life here right?


And his blood is on the hands of the man who ordered him to fight.


I need to get the picture better here as what exactly it is that you think went on

please give me like a conversation scenario you think went on between Putin (or who ever) and the Pilot

if we assume pilot was clueless then I would like to know what you think the pilot was thinking

then if you were the pilot what would you do


like logically I need to understand what do you think actually took place there




posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 08:45 AM
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a reply to: benwyatt

nvm. Already posted.


edit on 12/20/2015 by angeldoll because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 09:12 AM
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ok so where is the logic to this

this will cost Turkey $9billion
they had to know there will be a cost
fits right into Russia's current crappy economy too right?
so why the hell would they do it

if turkey wanted to punish Russia just impose sanctions for violation of space
with all the current sanctions this surely would benefit turkey hurt Russia

and if turkey was already expecting some bs from Russia they wouldn't get provoked into this by having some plane millimetre into the boarder for 17s

so which one is it



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 09:14 AM
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a reply to: Layaly


I need to get the picture better here as what exactly it is that you think went on


Erdogan informed the Russian Ambassador that any plane violating Turkish airspace will be shot down. The Ambassador informed Lavrov, who informed Putin, who replied: "We will do nothing to accommodate NATO." He then informed his Air Marshal to continue bombing targets near the Turkish border, knowing that this will involve planes straying into Turkish airspace. The pilots assumed that they still had the usual grace period to turn around if the entered Turkish air space. They were wrong. Putin could have ordered operations near the border to cease, but since that was clearly Erdogan's intention, Putin did not. Putin understood he was probably sending men to their death, but he needed to make it clear he would not bow to threats. Two men died to prove that Putin is not afraid of NATO. You should be cheering for their heroic deaths, should you not? Or do you think Putin should give in to NATO?



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 09:16 AM
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a reply to: Layaly


so why the hell would they do it


Because sanctions are for wimps. Erdogan demonstrated that he is strong, like Putin.



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 10:11 AM
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a reply to: [post=20171350]DJW001


The pilots assumed that they still had the usual grace period to turn around if the entered Turkish air space.


turkey said they were warned few times

it's only two options

pilot was clueless
or he knew exactly what he is getting into

the black box report comes out tomorrow
maybe we wait

and look get my point of view.. you are talking to someone to whom being Russian or American Turkish means absolutely jack s*** the labels are completely irrelevant to me

if I just listen to you and no one else from what you said this is what I get

I am left with 2 idiots in charge who at any cost battle for a I show you who is in charge bs ultimately at a cost to Russia Turkey people so you choose to support neither or you label both equally idiotic

and the pilot must have had a mind frame of a I am happy to be a suicide bomber for my god the co- pilot too isn't that who they targeting ideology ? as a dude tell me why the hell would you sign up for that .. heroic pilot somehow I don't see it



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 10:13 AM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: Layaly


so why the hell would they do it


Because sanctions are for wimps. Erdogan demonstrated that he is strong, like Putin.


if I was a turkey citizen that would greatly piss me of
shooting down a plane and throwing our tax payer money into -$9bill sounds like a great idea
edit on 20-12-2015 by Layaly because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 10:17 AM
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a reply to: Layaly

Third option: The pilot didn't have a radio tuned to that frequency and never heard the radio warnings.



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 10:22 AM
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a reply to: DJW001




There has been no proof that Turkey is supplying Daesh.


But they are supporting them.

It has been proven that IS oil is crossing Turkish borders in a continuous stream. And you know this.
edit on 20-12-2015 by HardBoiled because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 10:25 AM
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a reply to: HardBoiled

It has been proven that convoys of oil are being smuggled across the Syria/Iraq border. That is an entirely different issue.



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 10:29 AM
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a reply to: DJW001

Such a pathetic cop out. How can 850 trucks a day get smuggled from ISIS territory across main roads crossing the border without the Turkish government knowing, without the US and the EU knowing.

Why is the coalition not bombing all vehicles coming from oil fields in ISIS territory? Why is there even infrastructure intact that allows for this illegal oil trade that is keeping IS alive?

This argument is completely insane, and anyone using it is serving an agenda. Do you think people are retarded?
edit on 20-12-2015 by HardBoiled because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 10:38 AM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

even with this point

Turkey knew Russia will continue provoking
So you shoot the plane
why would they take that bait unless they assumed no one will be pissed of about it and obviously Russia wants them pissed of and with sanctions (I think that's the theme in this thread)

to me with your version
the benefits of shooting down the plane exceed the cost of now $9billion and screwing up all potential economic benefits for future up until now their economies were dependable of each other so what happened

still makes no sense to me I ask myself what are they protecting a piece of air what is the risk were they assuming this plane will deliberately attack somethings Turkish is that what they are afraid of? Or what

edit on 20-12-2015 by Layaly because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 10:46 AM
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a reply to: Reverbs




Now you find me USA or Britain or someone like that saying it was good to do that.


Does this count?


President Obama spoke on the telephone Tuesday with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and expressed the United States' and NATO's support for Turkey's right to defend its sovereignty, the White House said in a statement.



As we have repeatedly made clear, we stand in solidarity with Turkey and support the territorial integrity of our NATO ally, Turkey," NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said after an emergency meeting of the 28-nation defense pact.


www.usatoday.com...

Seems like they are backing Turkey's right to defend itself and it's borders...which btw Russia was warned about crossing back in October when they did it the first time.


Just last month the US and NATO blasted Russia for violating Turkish airspace - and Ankara threatened to respond to any provocation.

NATO held an emergency meeting in Brussels of ambassadors from its 28 member states to respond to what Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg called “unacceptable violations of Turkish airspace” after a Russian jet crossed its frontier with Syria on Saturday October 3.

In a chilling prediction, a Turkish foreign ministry official said Russia would be held “responsible for any undesired incident that may occur” if it were repeated.


www.mirror.co.uk...

Now I am not saying it was the right response to what happened, but Russia knew it could be the end result if it happened again, so why take the chance?

Putin doesn't like to be told he can't do something...so just to prove a point he lost a pilot and a jet, which is my opinion of Russia's actions for that day.



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 10:49 AM
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a reply to: HardBoiled




It has been proven that IS oil is crossing Turkish borders in a continuous stream. And you know this.


Yes and drugs cross the American border daily, and with the security we have on our borders it still happens...no border is totally safe or controlled.



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 10:53 AM
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a reply to: DJW001




Putin understood he was probably sending men to their death,


Putin has shown time, and time again that he has no problem sacrificing military personnel just to bolster his ego to the world.



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 11:02 AM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h




Yes and drugs cross the American border daily, and with the security we have on our borders it still happens...no border is totally safe or controlled.


Thanks for proving the point I was making about people using this ridiculous argument.

Is there no limit to the bending over backwards and coming up with moronic excuses and idiotic comparisons.


You don't think there is a difference between drugs smuggled in a briefcase, car, or anal cavity from one place to another and actual obvious tanker trucks filled with oil, coming straight from oil fields in a terrorist controlled war zone by the hundreds, while a coalition is supposedly fighting against these terrorists and they have the technological capabiity to follow everything that goes on.

Either you are forced to post this pathetic BS or the quality of these arguments is actually indicative of your mental capacity.


edit on 20-12-2015 by HardBoiled because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 11:59 AM
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a reply to: HardBoiled

There are convoys of trucks passing into Turkey from the East. There is an embargo on oil from Iran. Iran lies to the east of Turkey. When the border guards ask where the oil comes from, they are told Kurdistan, which also lies to the east. Why do you assume the oil comes from Daesh, rather than Iran or Kurdistan? Why do you think it should matter to a.corrupt border guard?

Saying that Turkey supports Daesh because contraband oil is crossing west across its border is like saying that Russia supports the Taliban because Afghan heroin is flying into Russia in front of corrupt border guards noses.
edit on 20-12-2015 by DJW001 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 01:45 PM
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a reply to: DJW001
The processing of hundreds of oil laden trucks to and from a well-guarded border (one that shoots down aircraft after 17s) takes a bit more personnel and logistics than from just one border guard.
Assisting ISIS to financially gain in anyway is in fact aiding and abetting terrorists
To suggest the government of Turkey was/is unaware of such transfers is akin to declaring reader's brain-dead.
edit on 20-12-2015 by all2human because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 02:22 PM
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a reply to: HardBoiled




Either you are forced to post this pathetic BS or the quality of these arguments is actually indicative of your mental capacity.


SO if someone doesn't agree with you they have a mental capacity problem...that's good to know.

SO instead of actually debating the replies to you, it is just easier to launch personal attacks...again good to know.



posted on Dec, 20 2015 @ 02:24 PM
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a reply to: all2human




To suggest the government of Turkey was/is unaware of such transfers is akin to declaring reader's brain-dead.


So the government knows all about every corrupt person in the government, and allows them to work to help ISIS?

Care to back up that claim?




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