Russia says NATO accepts reponsibility for downing of Russian Su-24 jet

a reply to: Reverbs

Anti air defense???

Whose 'uninformed'? 400KM range with ANTI-BASLLISTIC MISSILE capability with Carrier sinking (alledged) capability?

Coverage that reaches over the NATO base in Turkey AND Israel?

Makes a patriot Battery look like a Stinger....

This is the real world .. Not the psycho justifications here ..

Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Numan Kurtulmuş has said Turkey and Russia will not sacrifice their bilateral relations because of the recent downing of a Russian aircraft which violated Turkish airspace. "I would like to mention sincerely that neither Turkey nor the Russian Federation are going to remove or sacrifice their relationship because of this situation," Kurtulmuş told the media after a Cabinet meeting in Ankara. "We wish this crisis to not grow bigger, not to go further, [and hope it will] be dealt with through mutual negotiations within a short time," he said. Kurtulmuş said that Turkey had shown utmost care to not get involved in another crisis since the country was already located in a region, which had been turned into a "ring of fire".

www.dailysabah.com...

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Reverbs

Anti air defense???

Whose 'uninformed'? 400KM range with ANTI-BASLLISTIC MISSILE capability with Carrier sinking (alledged) capability?

Coverage that reaches over the NATO base in Turkey AND Israel?

Makes a patriot Battery look like a Stinger....

I know..
And trust me I know more than I can say

Read what Turkey said about 17 seconds that they hailed the Jet 10 times... In 17 seconds they may have twice..

Focus on the post above mine instead of wanting hell and fire.

Turkey messed up. Everyone knows it.

originally posted by: Layaly
a reply to: nwtrucker

so Russia has the right to shoot down each plane that violates their airspace from now one !!
Fair enough

no person with the right Mind would do that ..

Russia has alwaysreserved that right. I suggest you Google TWA 007 and Gary Francis Powers.

a reply to: Reverbs

Frankly, I tire of your avoidance of the simplicity of The fact of Turk airspace being theirs and their call on what to do and when to do it.

Lots of contradictions. Guard frequencies by Turk F-16s which Russia doesn't monitor..

Yet the pilots bail before the missiles are fired?...

We probably will never know who did what to whom. lies piled on lies getting deeper by the minute. S400s spotted in Syria a week before the shoot down?

A Pox on all of em...

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Reverbs

Frankly, I tire of your avoidance of the simplicity of The fact of Turk airspace being theirs and their call on what to do and when to do it.

Lots of contradictions. Guard frequencies by Turk F-16s which Russia doesn't monitor..

Yet the pilots bail before the missiles are fired?...

We probably will never know who did what to whom. lies piled on lies getting deeper by the minute. S400s spotted in Syria a week before the shoot down?

A Pox on all of em...

You are making so many assumptions. You have proof Russia doesn't monitor?
Or that pilots bail before missiles are fired? ?

I'll tell you if they knew radar lock in time to bail they would be alive.

S-400s have nothing to do with this as Turkey said they shot the plane.

originally posted by: Reverbs

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Reverbs

Anti air defense???

Whose 'uninformed'? 400KM range with ANTI-BASLLISTIC MISSILE capability with Carrier sinking (alledged) capability?

Coverage that reaches over the NATO base in Turkey AND Israel?

Makes a patriot Battery look like a Stinger....

I know..
And trust me I know more than I can say

Read what Turkey said about 17 seconds that they hailed the Jet 10 times... In 17 seconds they may have twice..

Focus on the post above mine instead of wanting hell and fire.

Turkey messed up. Everyone knows it.

Being an old fart, when I see "trust me" and "I know" and 'everybody knows'...my BS meter starts changing in the red.

I'm part of 'everybody', I dislike the Turks as much as the rest of them....not one word you've posted shows why Turkey cannot or doesn't have the right to shoot that SU-24 down.

Putin, stay out of Turkey's airspace...just saying....after that simple truth...I have no idea....

a reply to: nwtrucker

You are too simple.

And you have no idea.

You said it not me.

I was actually trained and have clearance and read all the news.

Now you find me USA or Britain or someone like that saying it was good to do that.

a reply to: Reverbs

What part of lies piled on lies don't you get? I have No proof...of any of it. For or against. Neither do you.

Frankly, I couldn't care less. The only solid, agreed upon, is national sovereignty. That includes airspace. It's their to defend as they wish. Or not.

You seem to have a need to spin even that fundamental. Won't even acknowledge it.

a reply to: nwtrucker

no it's you.

Israel is even ok with it.

Turkey has no support.

a reply to: DJW001

U said to look it up.. TWA007

The US government had covered up the incident and had skewed the investigation for political ends. The first set of facts relate to US capability and actuality of tracking KAL 007 in its deviated flight, thus presenting the possibility of warning the aircraft in time to avert its entrance into harm's way.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: nwtrucker

you know when your true colours would come out?
If Russia shot down NATO's plane I hope you would stand here defending national sovereignty equally

well, i was hoping i would enjoy the thread derailment hoping to learn something, honest, until pointless johnson swinging broke out.

originally posted by: Reverbs
a reply to: nwtrucker

You are too simple.

And you have no idea.

You said it not me.

I was actually trained and have clearance and read all the news.

Now you find me USA or Britain or someone like that saying it was good to do that.

Sigh. There are many on ATS with 'clearances' and non-disclosure agreements. They do not broadcast the fact.

Fortunately , I'm not one of them.

The single point I raise is a small point in an attempt to find a freaking starting point of accord. Turkey's right to defend it's airspace.

It's the agenda behind it that I have no idea of. There are too many potential scenarios. Anyone, at this level, who claims to 'know', announces their clearance level, etc. Respectfully, I distrust.

The U.S. and U.K. wouldn't like this move in the slightest....assuming their aren't behind it, as so many imply, as it forces them as the major leaders of NATO of having to potentially defend Turkey in the event of a Russian-Turk fracas.

Off the top, here's a list of potential nations behind this act or others:

China
Saudi Arabia
Iran
Iraq
Israel
Russia
NATO, (The U.S., U.K. or any combination)
Syria.(Assad)

Or any combination thereof...Probably missed a few....

a reply to: Reverbs

I'm kind of relieved the Rodina is on the roll in that mess,better them than us.
Apparently WE want China.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Reverbs

I'm kind of relieved the Rodina is on the roll in that mess,better them than us.
Apparently WE want China.

Someone alive in the thread.

originally posted by: Layaly
a reply to: nwtrucker

you know when your true colours would come out?
If Russia shot down NATO's plane I hope you would stand here defending national sovereignty equally

In general, I would be more forgiving of a NATO transgression than a Russian one. I am more tolerant of Western mistakes than Russian.

I've never hidden that fact. Lately, my trust of NATO and the U.S....read that Obama, is at it's lowest point ever. Still higher than Russia, however.

A possibility not really covered that this was an inevitability due to so many players with so many agendas in so small an area. Just one of those things...Doo Doo occurs..... Just saying

a reply to: Layaly

Amazing. The Soviets shoot down a civilian airliner and you Target the U.S..

Your 'too colours' are obvious as well....

a reply to: Layaly

There's a lot of "could have" and "might have" in that to be jumping to the "The US covered it up". There's also some bad information. The NTSB wouldn't have been the lead investigation into Korean 007. They would have participated, but not lead it because it was a foreign owned aircraft. They would have had to coordinate with the other investigative teams. You also named two different flights, so I assume you meant KAL007.

The NTSB also doesn't investigate non-accidents. In the case of bombings, or a shootdown, other agencies take the lead. The NTSB investigates accidents, and this wasn't an accident. In deliberate crashes, the NTSB assists, but other agencies do the investigation.

originally posted by: Reverbs

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Reverbs

I'm kind of relieved the Rodina is on the roll in that mess,better them than us.
Apparently WE want China.

Someone alive in the thread.

So your saying that if 'no supported it', then Turkey has acted alone.

You think I'm simple....