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Orrin Hatch wants to tear down the wall of separation between church and state

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posted on Dec, 1 2015 @ 02:40 PM
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a reply to: neo96

No. Secular government dictates those things based on the wisdom of the people and human interests while a theocracy is based on a static mythology from an irrelevant era. Very dangerous and very different.




posted on Dec, 1 2015 @ 02:46 PM
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a reply to: Abysha




Secular government dictates those things based on the wisdom of the people and human interests while a theocracy is based on a static mythology from an irrelevant era.


'Wisdom of the people' !

Hilarious.



posted on Dec, 1 2015 @ 03:30 PM
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a reply to: neo96

Star. Your gold is rolling out.



posted on Dec, 1 2015 @ 03:44 PM
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Certainly don't want the USA to turn into a Christian Nation. I'm not a Christian and I don't want anyone discriminating against me because of it.

Let's keep that wall up like our forefathers intended.



posted on Dec, 1 2015 @ 03:56 PM
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originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Abysha




Secular government dictates those things based on the wisdom of the people and human interests while a theocracy is based on a static mythology from an irrelevant era.


'Wisdom of the people' !

Hilarious.


I expected you to find that funny. Do you find honor killings, witch burnings, and public lashings a hoot, as well? What about people basing your rights off a book written by people who thought their worth could be measured by acquiring the most foreskins from their enemies?

So yeah, in comparison, I would say that any secular group decision is based on the "wisdom of the people" as opposed to the "malevolence of a mad god".

How can a person even argue this?



posted on Dec, 1 2015 @ 04:02 PM
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originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Abysha




Secular government dictates those things based on the wisdom of the people and human interests while a theocracy is based on a static mythology from an irrelevant era.


'Wisdom of the people' !

Hilarious.


What exactly do you have against democracy? It might be imperfect but...what would you replace it with?...neo's brand of fascism, divine right of kings, somekind of BS Cruz theocracy, Trumps loser brand of corporatacracy....what?

Whine-o-topia


edit on 1-12-2015 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2015 @ 04:05 PM
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a reply to: Abysha




I expected you to find that funny. Do you find honor killings, witch burnings, and public lashings a hoot, as well? What about people basing your rights off a book written by people who thought their worth could be measured by acquiring the most foreskins from their enemies?


Still not any damn different than government.

Drones,wars, and rights are determined by a mob 'intellect'.



posted on Dec, 1 2015 @ 04:07 PM
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a reply to: olaru12




What exactly do you have against democracy?


I have quite a lot against 'mob' rule. Where mob might makes 'right'.




.what would you replace it with?


What we are. A Republic.

Where the minority is protected from mob rule.




.neo's brand of fascism, divine right of kings, somekind of BS Cruz theocracy, etc.??


Nice vitriol.



posted on Dec, 1 2015 @ 04:14 PM
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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;


/thread



posted on Dec, 1 2015 @ 04:15 PM
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Dropping "peace bombs" around the world
Don't worry no one can accuse USA of being Christian



posted on Dec, 1 2015 @ 05:06 PM
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a reply to: Miracula2
Not really seeing any laws mentioned in that confused and disjointed rambling.

What Biblical laws should we be following?



posted on Dec, 1 2015 @ 06:25 PM
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Hmm ...

Christians, 70%

Atheists/non-religious, 3%

Hmm ...

Christians, vast majority

Atheists, tiny minority

Mob rule???

Yah. The Christian Mob that Orrin Hatch (and many others) advocate for.

Pew Research Center, May 12, 2015



posted on Dec, 1 2015 @ 06:40 PM
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It always cracks me up how threatened are by religion (but only Christianity). Let's ignore the very brutal group belonging to the M religion (and make excuses that they are not typical of those M folks) but everyone get up in arms when some dude suggests separation of church and state doesn't exist. Does his opinion on the matter really have that much effect on your lives?



posted on Dec, 1 2015 @ 09:36 PM
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originally posted by: skoalman88
It always cracks me up how threatened are by religion (but only Christianity). Let's ignore the very brutal group belonging to the M religion (and make excuses that they are not typical of those M folks) but everyone get up in arms when some dude suggests separation of church and state doesn't exist. Does his opinion on the matter really have that much effect on your lives?


Orrin Hatch is President Pro Tempore of the US Senate.

That means, effectively, he is third in line to the Presidency.

Beside that fact, yes, it is ludicrous that an elected US Senator either doesn't have a basic understanding of how our government works, or, chooses to ignore our Constitution utterly in favor of religion.



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 06:57 AM
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originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: dismanrc




In simple word they can't force you to follow a religion OR stop your from following it. Which means that if I want to pray at the begging of a meeting, I have a Constitutional right to do so. Do you have to pray with me? Nope, would be nice if you respected my right and let me have a moment tho.


Great, you can pray to your God at the begging [sic] of a meeting and I'll pray to mine. But let me warn you; our prayers are a bit esoteric, long and involves a little dancing. Respect my prayers and I'll Respect yours. Or do you just want us to wait around while you pray to your Christian God and throw our religion under the bus?


Your agenda is apparent....you only want a Christian observance to God, right?



Thanks for putting word in my mouth.
Did I say Christian any where in my post?

In fact I'm not even religious. I was raised Baptist, my wife is Muslim and I have friends that are Buddhist and even Hare Krishna.

Seems more like your agenda is apparent.

So go ahead and have a dance. I would be happy to see a view of the worlds culture.

(By the way -- don't you just hate auto spell check.
)



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 09:01 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Or maybe he is correct and you just don't like that? As for him being third in line, who cares?



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 09:05 PM
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originally posted by: skoalman88
a reply to: Gryphon66

Or maybe he is correct and you just don't like that? As for him being third in line, who cares?


Ok. Explain how Hatch can possibly be right about trampling the Constitution underfoot.



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 09:12 PM
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originally posted by: amazing
Certainly don't want the USA to turn into a Christian Nation. I'm not a Christian and I don't want anyone discriminating against me because of it.

Let's keep that wall up like our forefathers intended.


Christians arent supppsed to judge. Thats the point. Be whatever you want. We dont judge, we're Christians. Work hard, help others and also dont judge, and you'll fit in fine.

Sure some people lost their way, and throw the first stone, etc.


"Seperation of church and state" was coined by Jefferson, but not in any founding, legal, or official document. It was in a letter to a friend.



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 09:43 PM
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a reply to: ISawItFirst

Perhaps you've heard of James Madison? Fourth President of the United States and primary author of the US Constitution?



The civil Government, though bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability, and performs its functions with complete success, whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people, have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the church from the State (Letter to Robert Walsh, Mar. 2, 1819).

Strongly guarded as is the separation between religion and & Gov't in the Constitution of the United States the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history (Detached Memoranda, circa 1820).

Every new and successful example, therefore, of a perfect separation between the ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance; and I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in showing that religion and Government will both exist in greater purity the less they are mixed together (Letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822).

I must admit moreover that it may not be easy, in every possible case, to trace the line of separation between the rights of religion and the civil authority with such distinctness as to avoid collisions and doubts on unessential points. The tendency to a usurpation on one side or the other or to a corrupting coalition or alliance between them will be best guarded against by entire abstinence of the government from interference in any way whatever, beyond the necessity of preserving public order and protecting each sect against trespasses on its legal rights by others. (Letter Rev. Jasper Adams, Spring 1832).


James Madison on Separation of Church and State


Pardon me, but I think I'll take the words of Jefferson and Madison over yours and Senator Hatch's regarding the Separation of Church and State.



posted on Dec, 3 2015 @ 12:07 AM
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originally posted by: Miracula2

originally posted by: olaru12
Sen. Orin, there's a lot of people in the US that really don't want a theocracy. I know that sound odd but it true.




You already live in a theocracy. Right now you, your friends, your family, your children are being held accountable to divine law and yet the government doesn't require church attendance. And yet many homeless are there because they willfully refuse to follow simple Biblical law, rules that aren't that hard to follow and PROVIDE HAPPINESS and meaning.

The government needs to be changed to reflect that. I agree with Orrin Hatch and admire how many Mormons live their lives.


Besides being an absolutely insane idea, when government legislates morality, morality becomes meaningless from a spiritual sense. If you make choices even partially based on whether they'll land you in jail, your soul is lesser for it.



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