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"stronger", sort of, we can say the black hole's gravity is strong enough to prevent light from escaping. "Faster", no. The black hole's gravity being strong enough to prevent light from escaping says nothing about the speed of the black hole's gravity.
originally posted by: geezlouise
but whatever a black hole is made up of, it is stronger and faster than the speed of light because light doesn't escape it.
It turns out that there is a unique relationship between classical and quantum theories. For instance, electromagnetism is generated by electric charges and currents. The sources are described mathematically by a vector, and it turns out that vectors produce spin-1 mediator particles. It turns out that mediators with odd spin produce forces in which like particles repel. And indeed, two electrons will repel one another.
General relativity, on the other hand, is known as a "tensor theory" because there are all sorts of sources related to the pressure and flow and density of an energy distribution. The quantum versions of tensor theories have spin-2 mediator particles. So whatever else, the graviton will be spin-2. And, you guessed it, even spin mediators attract like particles. And lo and behold! Like particles do attract gravitationally!
originally posted by: charlyv
Today, the forefront of Science is deeply saturated into understanding Quantum Physics. Trouble is, some evidence discovered when attempting to utilize quantum methods, seem to violate some of our really well healed theories, like the nature of the space/time continuum, or the general laws of relativity and the laws of Thermodynamics.
We understand the speed of light to be finite, unless slowed down by refractive influence traveling through transparent materials, or gravitational lensing. These slow-downs are miniscule and the speed of light in free space (a vacuum) is constant, regardless of the speed or direction of an object emitting that light. Light deals with fundamental particles called photons, but they also behave like waves.
So, a few questions come up:
What is the speed of the propagation of gravity?
What is the speed of the propagation of magnetism?
Einstein's relativistic equation for gravity based on general relativity demands that gravity travels at the speed of light. However, quantum science is departing from that view.
Although they are not “particles’ (the “graviton” has not been identified), and are thought of as waves, they do have a propagation speed in which they influence objects around them, and this “speed” is most likely faster than light.
Quantum physics has shown us already that through quantum entanglement, the information about one particle is transferred to another entangled particle instantaneously, regardless of the distance between them.
It would follow that the true nature of magnetism and gravity can only be explained in a quantum environment, and if so, imagine the tasks we have of re-thinking and repairing our great truths!
So, for the sake of an example, let’s say a star explodes.
Since the gravitational environment has certainly changed for any object near that star and beyond, when is that information available?
According to what science thinks today, it is anywhere from infinity (which is fairly close to instantaneously, but never gets there.), to 20x the speed of light (with some of the heaviest math that is conveniently left out of here, but referenced at the end of the post).
We would require quantum methods to measure it, which as of yet, we do not have. In any case, many scientists are saying that the “information” reaches us long before we would ever see the explosion.
Let’s say again, that a gigantic permanent magnetic object instantly appeared out of nowhere in the solar system (bear with me). Again, new science suggests that the propagation of the magnetic influence has a “speed”, and again ranges from instantaneous (infinity), to 20x the speed of light.
The original theories that magnetic flux propagation followed the speed of light are being severely challenged. The thinking here states that even being Millions of miles away from that “event”, the information reaches us long before we would ever see that object. Note this is not magnetic radiation, but the sudden presence of a permanent magnetic field, if such a thing could be produced.
a reply to: charlyv
The talk assumes that if we ever correctly decipher what a "graviton" would be... a conflict of great proportion would ensue.
It is one of the real obstacles in the unification of both, how can they both be correct?
I don't know if that idea is correct or not but I find it interesting and though it's not the general relativity model, even general relativity predicts that to an external observer, time near the event horizon would appear to slow so much that it might appear "frozen". However in that model an observer near the event horizon would not experience any such "time freezing" and time would appear to pass "normally" inside their spaceship, but they could look out the window and see billions of years go by in an arbitrarily short time according to the clock in their spaceship. Either theory is mind-bending, which shouldn't be surprising since black holes are the ultimate "benders" of space and time.
Do observations of black hole candidates rule out alternative theories of gravity without horizon formation? This depends on the existence, viability and reasonableness of alternative theories of gravity without black holes.
Here a theory of gravity without black hole horizon formation is presented. The gravitational collapse stops shortly before horizon formation and leaves a stable frozen star.
originally posted by: geezlouise
a reply to: Arbitrageur
OH MY GOD. If the speed of gravity in a black hole is equal to light then... as the light constantly moves outward, it is constantly being pulled back towards the mass in equal force so.... black holes are then, actually, FULL OF TRAPPED FROZEN LIGHT! And we just don't see that light because the light never reaches us because it's trapped, forever. HOLY MOLY!
Is that about right?