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Obama urges gun control after Colorado Springs shooting: 'Enough is enough'

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posted on Nov, 28 2015 @ 06:27 PM
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My question to you is: why are you a gun-a-phobe?


JUST FYI its called HOPLOPHOBIA

www.gunlaws.com...




posted on Nov, 28 2015 @ 06:27 PM
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originally posted by: beansidhe
a reply to: MagesticEsoteric

I think that's where my mulling took me, yes. That's what it would mean for me. That I felt like I wanted to protect myself from other people who could shoot me. You'll need to excuse my ignorance on this issue, it's something I really struggle to understand.

a reply to: ketsuko

Yes, that makes sense to me. Lots of farmers here have rifles too, mostly rural folk. No, that's right it is easy to forget how massive America is. Rural to you isn't the same as rural to me. I can drive from the south of scotland to the north in a day, easily. The Islands are a different matter, but that's not really relevant here.



Hey,

I applaud you for actually trying to understand the issue. I honestly do.

Most people just write us gun toting american's as just that....a bunch of gun toting american's.


It's bigger than that though. It's more personal and it cannot all be brushed in the same stroke.

Do we have nutballs in this country? YES, we do!

Do you have nutballs in your country? Yeah, ya do!

Are there nutballs all over the world....Hell yes!

Nutballs will be nutballs...let's just try not to give them guns...yeah?



posted on Nov, 28 2015 @ 06:28 PM
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a reply to: beansidhe


But some other people are definitely saying they don't trust their government to be armed and for them not to be. That is a massive problem, how on earth do you begin to tackle that? (Not you personally, obviously).


No, not quite. It isn't that I don't trust the government to be armed. It's just that I trust them less when they are the only ones armed.

It creates an imbalance of power.

An armed populace or at least, a populace that could be armed as they chose, was one of the checks and balances written in to the COTUS. The entire document was designed as a cage to keep the government from ever becoming too big and abusive. People always say that we would never see the killing fields of Cambodia here or the rise of something like Hitler's Reich, and so long as the people are armed and can stand against the governments that would enforce those things, it becomes much harder for such a thing to happen.



posted on Nov, 28 2015 @ 06:30 PM
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a reply to: MagesticEsoteric


Thanks for bearing with me!

I have had a gun pointed at me (well, mainly at my mate but the bloke kept swivelling round and waving it near me) in Moscow airport. Pretty scary stuff, I can tell you, since I don't speak a word of Russian. No idea what he was planning but he was determined that I wasn't going to walk over his stupid imaginary line on the floor.
Have I held one, no never. I'm not attracted to them, I don't ever want to use one. Have I ever shot one, no. They are synonymous with blasted kneecaps where I'm from and I suppose they're just not 'normal' here.
I am now definitely derailing this, I should leave it to the Americans.



posted on Nov, 28 2015 @ 06:32 PM
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originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: HighFive

That's fantastic.

I don't hunt. I'm a soldier(currently on terminal leave) who understands fully the kind of power the US government can bring to bear. UBCs would REQUIRE registration to be effective. Registration leads to confiscation. I carry everyday. I train with my tactical rifles and pistols, and I train for force on force.

My guns are for two legged predators.

I don't want government knowing a damned thing I have. It's none of their business. The NRA doesn't represent the gun manufacturers. It represents its' members. The NSSF represents the manufacturers.

Stop BSing.


I'm sorry UBC's would not require a national gun registry(which I would oppose), just a BC by a licensed dealer
The majority of guns are already subject to background checks
Or I would prefer a system like most concealed carry states in the Midwest have. You get a federal BC, you get a card, you can buy whatever guns you prefer for a specified period. (5 yrs in Michigan)

Gun registry is scare tactic.
And I'm not BSing, and I'm not the only gun enthusiast that feels that would be a responsible system.

edit on 28-11-2015 by HighFive because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2015 @ 06:32 PM
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A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined..."
- George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776
"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787
"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787
"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776
"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785
"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824
"On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823
"I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence ... I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy."



posted on Nov, 28 2015 @ 06:34 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

The purpose of the constitution was for the populace have a well regulated... Militia. The Oathkeepers are the closest thing I can think of. I can actually support that.

Random nuts being able to buy weapons from gun shows because of all the loopholes?
Nah. That's not second amendment rights. That's just stupid.

The issue is when people get that stereotypical "YEEE-HAAAW" attitude. I think America's gun laws could work, but not in a partisan country prone to radicalism. You also need better education about the things, preferably in primary school.

edit on 28/11/2015 by Eilasvaleleyn because: Reasons



posted on Nov, 28 2015 @ 06:35 PM
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a reply to: Eilasvaleleyn




Random nuts being able to buy weapons from gun shows because of all the loopholes?



There is no loophole !!



posted on Nov, 28 2015 @ 06:36 PM
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a reply to: HighFive




I'm sorry UBC's would not require a national gun registry(which I would oppose), just a BC by a licensed dealer


You mean the NICS check we already have?

Let me ask you a question:

Why is it legitimate to violate the 4th Amendment in order to exercise the 2nd? Does that not offend the very notion of Constitutionalism?

Why is it that we are willing to allow this?



posted on Nov, 28 2015 @ 06:37 PM
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a reply to: wildb

Right, loophole suggests that it's unintentional. My apologies.



posted on Nov, 28 2015 @ 06:38 PM
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originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: HighFive

Why is it legitimate to violate the 4th Amendment in order to exercise the 2nd? Does that not offend the very notion of Constitutionalism?

Why is it that we are willing to allow this?


Yes, yes, PLEASE, all you Americans who defend the second amendment should be going NUTS about how much your fourth one is being violated. You should be supporting the whole constitution, but people seem to pick and choose.

The reason why the 2nd has so much more support than the 4th is because someone can't profit from 4th being enforced. ^_^
edit on 28/11/2015 by Eilasvaleleyn because: Reasons



posted on Nov, 28 2015 @ 06:39 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn

I've never killed an animal - If I had to for survival I'd go vegan for sure. I've hunted many men. There is a big difference between pointing your finger and trigger recognition ...

Vxn, some people will NEVER understand. .... Again thank you for your service! !

For you sheeple amongst us, I leave you with this-

If you have no capacity for violence then you are a healthy productive citizen: a sheep. If you have a capacity for violence and no empathy for your fellow citizens, then you have defined an aggressive sociopath—a wolf. But what if you have a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow citizens? Then you are a sheepdog, a warrior, someone who is walking the hero’s path.




posted on Nov, 28 2015 @ 06:40 PM
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originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
a reply to: wildb

Right, loophole suggests that it's unintentional. My apologies.


I don't understand, the loophole does not exist, its a lie from anti gun politicians..



posted on Nov, 28 2015 @ 06:40 PM
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more:




- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778
“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
"To disarm the people...s the most effectual way to enslave them."
- George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788
"I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
- George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788
"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."
- Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787
"Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of."
- James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788
"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country."
- James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789
"...the ultimate authority, wherever the derivative may be found, resides in the people alone..."
- James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
- William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783
“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
- Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun."
- Patrick Henry, Speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778
"This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty.... The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction."
- St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England, 1803
"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms, like law, discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. The balance ofpower is the scale of peace. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside. And while a single nation refuses to lay them down, it is proper that all should keep them up. Horrid mischief would ensue were one-half the world deprived of the use of them; for while avarice and ambition have a place in the heart of man, the weak will become a prey to the strong. The history of every age and nation establishes these truths, and facts need but little arguments when they prove themselves."
- Thomas Paine, "Thoughts on Defensive War" in Pennsylvania Magazine, July 1775
"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
- Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788
"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them."
- Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, 1833
"What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty .... Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins."
- Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, I Annals of Congress 750, August 17, 1789
"For it is a truth, which the experience of ages has attested, that the people are always most in danger when the means of injuring their rights are in the possession of those of whom they entertain the least suspicion."
- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 25, December 21, 1787
"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers, may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual state. In a single state, if the persons intrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair."
- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28
"[I]f circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist."
- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28, January 10, 1788
"As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms."
- Tench Coxe, Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789



posted on Nov, 28 2015 @ 06:40 PM
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originally posted by: beansidhe
a reply to: seagull

I don't think I ever will understand. Some of you are saying it's your right and it's not up to the current government to tell you what you are allowed to do or not. I can certainly agree with that, and I can see why it then becomes such a contentious and political issue.
But some other people are definitely saying they don't trust their government to be armed and for them not to be. That is a massive problem, how on earth do you begin to tackle that? (Not you personally, obviously).


Welcome to the crazy....lol

It is our right to bear arms...it's in our constitutional rights to own guns. It just is.

Some people want them to protect themselves from naturally occurring threats.

Some people want them to protect themselves for a corrupt government.

Personally, I want a gun to protect myself when I'm hiking in the woods and I come across a large brown bear.

That's just me though. I'm 5'6" and weigh 110lbs. I can't fight off a damn bear now can I?

Other's are anticipating martial law...where the government will come and try to take their guns away from them leaving them defensless against a massive military regime.

Can you see the difference in the two scenarios?

I'm not saying anyone is wrong or right, I'm just saying that irregardless, I have a right to keep my damn guns!



posted on Nov, 28 2015 @ 06:41 PM
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a reply to: ReadLeader

That's not what sheepdogs do...

A better analogy would be an alpaca, I feel.



posted on Nov, 28 2015 @ 06:41 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Amen!!!!


2nd the old fashioned way.




posted on Nov, 28 2015 @ 06:42 PM
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originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: beansidhe

By shrinking the power, footprint, and funding of government.

We are all over the world pissing people off.

We have massive expansion of Federal police powers that are out of control.

We have onerous regulation that benefits no one but government cronies and corporations.

We are on the precipice of a very hot world war 3.

My guns are staying right where they are.


I wasn't ignoring your post earlier, I'm just trying to keep up. Do you ever go into a thread and then think Hmm, maybe I wandered into the wrong one? That would be me, here.

Yes, you (not you) are pissing people off all over the world, that's true. What I also struggle with is the vastness of North America, but you have one government? For the whole area. That makes it almost impossible to keep an eye on them. My country is tiny in comparison, so it's easier in some respects to know what they're up to and then protest it.
Do you not think it would be a good idea to limit guns to folk OR are you thinking that you don't trust the one's doing the limiting? In other words you don't trust them not to say this group can't have them or that man can't because (insert made up reason)?



posted on Nov, 28 2015 @ 06:43 PM
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a reply to: stormbringer1701

Then why the @^!%*(*(!^%#!*(^#%! god damned $&@*&$@*(! do you allow the patriot act to exist?



posted on Nov, 28 2015 @ 06:44 PM
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a reply to: Eilasvaleleyn

I took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution. Not just the second amendment.

But the Second Amendment is the teeth and claws of liberty. Without it our corrupt ass government would enslave us.



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