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Arab Spring To Paris Fall: A Strategic Shift in the Works

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posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 07:35 AM
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originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: bjarneorn


Basically, people living in glass towers ... shouldn't be throwing rocks.


I totally agree, but human rights abuses of the US (which I am no natural defender of) pale into insignificance when set against places like China and Russia where there is little outside and internal transparency or scrutiny.


Ahhhh ... but you aren't right here ... you fail to identify one very significant factor.

It's the US and it's allies, that majorily pay for the human rights organisations

In the days of the Soviet Union, there were NEVER any incidents of US violations, this has only occurred in recent years, where people all over the world, like me, have started to point out this fact. The situation here, is written in "moderate" fashion, when the US is concerned. And yet, ignores to write about Abu Grahib, Fallujah and not mention about incidents in the US. Those written, are merely one or two incidents ... not the overwhelming ones. So, the Human Rights organisations ... write the "moderate" version, when the US and it's allies are concerned.

Take the Iraq war, as an example ... how many Human Rights organisations have written the story about the "Highway of Death" .... How man Human Rights organisations, have written a "non-fiction" version of violations?

Yes, they all write the "down-played extremely moderate allied version".

But when Russia and China are concerned. The Human Rights organisations are writing the ISIS version of the story. A minor incident, becomes a major thing. But, is there ever a story about a positive thing in China or Russia?

Oh my GOD, have you EVER read anything positive ... NO.

Geesh ... have you read, for example, a story about a child that was abused at school by a teacher. The school took a stance "for" the teacher, and the parents were in front of the school. Soon join by other parents, who joined in on the protest and soon became a huge crowd that escalated into a confrontation between the school and the crowd. The school, called the police and a clash came between the people and the police.

Now, if this was Sweden, where I live ... or the US. Then the police would have met up in riot gear and the rioting people beaten and arrested.

Did that happen in China? No ... it went the other way around, the police got beaten ... the parents won and nobody got arrested.

Have you ever read, THIS and similar stories on CNN?

NO

Why not?

Because it gives you, a completely different picture of China than the one they want to give you.



edit on 29/11/2015 by bjarneorn because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 08:04 AM
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a reply to: bjarneorn

Because the report method is based on internal events excluding war / combat zones. Incidents during those encounters fall under a different set of international criteria and not domestic law. Secondly the report bitching about immigrants ignores the law governing it.

Third is there any reason you ignored the reports for other countries?


Maybe take the time to understand the criteria before launching an attack / accusations on why some things arent included in reports? Attacking something you fail to understand is problematic.
edit on 29-11-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-11-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 08:18 AM
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originally posted by: bjarneorn
It's the US and it's allies, that majorily pay for the human rights organisations


Human rights organisations are mainly charities. They are non-governmental. This means you are wrong.



In the days of the Soviet Union, there were NEVER any incidents of US violations, this has only occurred in recent years


I actually disagree. Human rights is often reviewed retrospectively, but even so the American human rights abuses were highlighted when they occurred e.g. Vietnam.



Take the Iraq war, as an example ... how many Human Rights organisations have written the story about the "Highway of Death"


That’s a poor example as the incident was a military confrontation and the military reasons are well known and published. If you are a combatant in a war then you should expect to be a legitimate target.



But when Russia and China are concerned.


Both Russia and China have terrible records in human rights. China represses civil, political and social freedoms like only a one-party-dictatorship can, and Russia is becoming increasingly authoritarian with increased curtailment of political and civil freedoms. Both nations have a controlled press. The Russian media is particularly effective, as you know. The press in the West is highly varied and you are a fool if you think FOX is news service, but it isn't government controlled unlike RT.com and other media from Russia and China that some people think is factual and is designed to mislead the reader.



posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 08:46 AM
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originally posted by: paraphi

Human rights organisations are mainly charities. They are non-governmental. This means you are wrong.



Non-governmental ... and cows fly.

Most of these organisations, take their money from individuals and the UN. The biggest contributor to them, is the US ... both, directly and indirectly.




I actually disagree. Human rights is often reviewed retrospectively, but even so the American human rights abuses were highlighted when they occurred e.g. Vietnam.



The retrospect in question, ONLY happened AFTER ... not AS these things were reported.




That’s a poor example as the incident was a military confrontation and the military reasons are well known and published. If you are a combatant in a war then you should expect to be a legitimate target.



Is this a joke? The HIghway of Death is a war crime ... hundreds of thousands of men were murdered, while "complying" to UN resolutions.

Over a million people have died ... children have died in such a horrible manner, it's off the grid ... it's even beyond what the Nazis have done. Hundreds of thousands of children ...

How much of this, is being emphasized by human rights organisations ... how much of the deaths are being "pointed out" by human rights organisations?

What is the "official" number of dead? Do the human rights organisations challenge this? Are they demanding that Bush/Cheney and Blair be brought to justice for crimes against humanity.

Make no mistake ... these are crimes against humanity.



Both Russia and China have terrible records in human rights.


Oh really ... where did you read that, on Fox News?

I went to China, and lived there and learned the language ... ended up marrying a chinese.

I don't "think" ... I KNOW these are half-truths. And I seriously suspect, although I've never lived there, the same thing applies to Russia. Watching Putin, for one ... makes me wonder. Here's a calm guy ... and there, in Erdogan is the madman ... the madman is supported by the US. There is ISIS, the mass murderers of the middle east ... Made by the US of A, with personal photo shoots with senator McCain.



posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 09:28 AM
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a reply to: bjarneorn

We agree on the use of chemical weapons, that was most likely an attack by extremists. (now known as IS/ISIS)

1 2 3

Obama's red line therefore was downright laughable, especially the eagerness to bomb Syria, something Kerry has been fighting for, but the US stood alone and Russia made it clear that they would act if the US did not back off.

IS/ISIS is nothing more than a name for one of the multiple groups who are fighting for a sick ideology, it is theological motivated.
Those who gain, and who most probably have ignited and funded it are sunni wahabi, they gain more political influence in the middle east.



posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 11:50 AM
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a reply to: earthling42

Yet you conveniently leave out the syrian use of chemical weapons. Why am I not surprised.



posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 11:57 AM
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originally posted by: bjarneorn
Oh really ... where did you read that, on Fox News?
I went to China, and lived there and learned the language ... ended up marrying a chinese.


Never watched Fox news in my life. I don't think I get it in my country.

Do you really think human rights in China are good - you say you lived there! Yeah right. I'll tell you a truth though... I have lived in Hong Kong. China is highly repressive.



posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 12:04 PM
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a reply to: CIAGypsy

Isis is nothing more (at least at it's roots) then a creation of the military industrial complex to further the machine that it is, the problem with this in the end game for the United States is when you create your own enemy you forgot sometimes to realize the enemy you did not create and you are swarmed by them all.

As far as the one poster who thinks the French government is behind this that is not true, the one good thing about France is that the government is afraid of the people because of the French Revolution and how many people took part in it, if as many people took part in the American one then maybe the military industrial complex would not have become the monster Eisenhower warned about that fell on def ears.


edit on 29-11-2015 by King Seesar because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 12:20 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Well, provide us the proof that Assad regime used chemical weapons.
Since extremists were caught with sarin, labs were found where chemicals were produced, to me 1+1=2.
That doesn't mean that Assad's regime didn't do it, they very well might have.
Surely Saddam Hussein used them during the war against Iran, but that was obviously no problem for the 'righteous' US




posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 12:40 PM
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a reply to: earthling42

Wikipedia - Use of chemical weapons in Syria

There is a table that lists the reports of use and who controls the area. Bottom of page, as well as in the list, are the appropriate sources, including UN investigation reports.
edit on 29-11-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 12:44 PM
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originally posted by: bjarneorn

US Human rights violations

Basically, people living in glass towers ... shouldn't be throwing rocks.

But, besides that ...



While I generally agreed with much of what you said in this post....I have to take exception to this part (see above).

EVERY nation has its own internal issues, regardless of size or wealth. Same could be said about organizations such as Human Rights Watch. Take what you read there (or anywhere) with a grain of salt as everyone has an agenda. The United States has racial issues which must be addressed...but using Michael Brown as a poster child of those issues is like throwing a grenade into a fire. It didn't need any more fuel to burn and acts themselves (of Michael Brown) were highly suspect in causing the explosion.

Does Human Rights Watch Understand the Nature of Prejudice?

In the bigger scheme of world rights, the US has DECLINED in a democracy index...especially compared to countries like Norway, Denmark, or New Zealand. However, despite our struggles and problems, our citizens still enjoy more rights and freedoms than those found under the type of Sharia Law being imposed by ISIS.

For the sake of theory, let's assume that portions of the US with ties to MB were also complicit in the encouragement of the creation of ISIS. Not saying they CREATED ISIS...but encouraged their growth in the beginning. In the beginning being the key words here.... I don't think anyone expected them to metastasize into the cancer they have become and a threat to the entire world. I don't think Obama expected this....and I am NO FAN of Obama whatsoever. And I don't think Europe expected this... But now they have a rabid dog that has become a bigger problem than the threat created by Assad. And while Obama piddles around trying to decide what actions will best help the MB, Putin has ridden in on his white horse to neutralize the beast while undermining US superiority in the eyes of the modern world which was the real prize.



posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 01:40 PM
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a reply to: bjarneorn


I don't "think" ... I KNOW these are half-truths. And I seriously suspect, although I've never lived there, the same thing applies to Russia. Watching Putin, for one ... makes me wonder. Here's a calm guy ... and there, in Erdogan is the madman ... the madman is supported by the US. There is ISIS, the mass murderers of the middle east ... Made by the US of A, with personal photo shoots with senator McCain.


So a guy who was in the KGB during the cold war is going to act like a maniac? Really??? As bad a you suspect the US of being you are going to equate Russia of being the forthright ones? See the big difference is that in the US you get these groups of people who clamor that this is being done wrong or this action is too cruel and the politicians jump at these groups if they represent a certain threshold for votes. In Russia do you ever hear of demostrations about the military hitting civilian targets? No, the Russians do not care about the lives of the people they are at war with. This fantasy people are having about Putin are getting out of hand. It's time for the people to start realizing that in certain areas their opinions are actually harmful to be made into policy. Imagine what the Russian rules for engagement and interrogation look like vs the US. I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that Russia will not take very many POW's and fewer still will ever be seen or heard from again.



posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 02:35 PM
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At this point it's nothing more then semantics between the Russians and the States, theater for the world if you will, both countries fund groups like this (more so the US) so they can pay there military boys for a job well done...

In research i have done i learned a lot of this stems from propaganda caused by a Christan ideal as the back bone for funding such terror groups with mind control also implemented on these suckers, big mil (military) as the back bone.



posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 06:49 PM
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originally posted by: hangedman13
I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that Russia will not take very many POW's and fewer still will ever be seen or heard from again.


Well, if that's true ... then I guess there are no prisons in Russia. Probably the same thing in China, there are probably few prisons as they are all taken out and shot.

I'm not even going to spend time to try and argue the falsehood of what I wrote above ... it should be self evident. But instead, I'll ask another question of the more than million that have died, in the middle east ... how many POW's has the US taken. And of the couple of hundred in Guantanamo, what happened to the rest? given an option to join ISIS?


edit on 29/11/2015 by bjarneorn because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 08:36 PM
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a reply to: CIAGypsy

Because Obama already has our military there doing nothing but acting like he is fighting ISIS when he is not and Putin is. Makes sense to me.



posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 08:38 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: earthling42

Yet you conveniently leave out the syrian use of chemical weapons. Why am I not surprised.


Really? You have not heard who really did that? Dam, where have you been? The first rocket attack killed mostly Syrian army troops as they tried to rescue the civilians in the area of impact, since it landed 300 yards away from them. Hardly something Syrian army troops would do if they shot the dam thing! The other attacks were linked to AlNursa.
edit on 29-11-2015 by Patriotsrevenge because: added content



posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 09:40 PM
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a reply to: Patriotsrevenge

Yeah there have been a lot of use of chemical weapons in Syria - by both sides. Stop being myopic.

www.abovetopsecret.com...




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