Belgian Physicists Calculate that Everyone Is Lying About the Downed Russian Jet

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: intrptr
Belgium is NATO, of course they want to sow confusion about it.

They want us focused on whose side the jet was on, that part is clear. The Russian jets are helping the Syrians.

So they are biased in favor of Turkey while claiming Turkey lied. Makes total sense.

I know you need to hear it several times. The Russians are allies with Syria, they are siding with the Syrians, they are on Syria's side.

Better?

a reply to: intrptr

You mean assad, not the syrian people.

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: intrptr
Belgium is NATO, of course they want to sow confusion about it.

They want us focused on whose side the jet was on, that part is clear. The Russian jets are helping the Syrians.

So they are biased in favor of Turkey while claiming Turkey lied. Makes total sense.

I know you need to hear it several times. The Russians are allies with Syria, they are siding with the Syrians, they are on Syria's side.

Better?

Your Logical Fallacy Is: Red Herring

Let's stay on topic. You are claiming this person is biased in favor of Turkey, based on his claim Turkey lied? Can you show where this bias is evident?

the most interesting & intriguing back-page story I heard on the Russian bomber knock-out is that the Nato team were attempting to have the Russians turn on their super-secret Electronics Jamming Device...

so that Air-to-air missiles cannot be fired and all the pilots stealth electronics (so as to not become a highly 'painted' target) get jammed and useless.

it is a whisper secret that Israel jets were sent to Syrian airspace --- but they found that their aircraft suddenly found themselves both unprotected in defense and unarmed in electronic warfare that disarms/ disrupts the GPS targeting for the onboard missiles... and the Russians in Syria communicated to the Israeli jets on the universal rescue channels to immediately depart from the Syrian airspace (which they did without hesitation)


it seems the Russians now have that mysterious ability to electronically disarm jets/missiles/ICBMs in a very precise area,,, at will.... just like the UFOs do to nuclear subs or silo housed ICBMs the USA has all over the 50 States


true or not...the shoot-down of an older/vintage Russian bomber & the supposed 5 minute Turkish warnings to the bomber was an intentional ploy to have the Russians 'turn-on' the electronic/EM jamming devices to Save the Russian bomber from a missile strike/shoot down by a single F16 from a NATO aggressor


something that needs developing--> is to find out IF Nato is a generation behind Russian capability of today...
Putin is the new 'boss'... step aside Springsteen]

a reply to: St Udio

Source so we all can read about it?

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: intrptr

You mean assad, not the syrian people.

Read the thread title… this means you.

And the other Turkmen here.

a reply to: intrptr

Yeah and its already been shown to be flawed because it makes incorrect assumptions. Also I am not turkish / turkmen so how about you stop trying to deflect by accusing people of something they didn't. Russia does the same and it doesnt work for them - well, except on people who cant think for themselves.

Turkey and Russia fooled everyone
S400s are in place
They are not for turkey
They are for bigger fish

a reply to: Xcathdra

Just stop them from violating their airspace. The rebels killed the pilot, which i think is only fair since russia has been killing them instead of isis.

The rebels you are referring too are terrorists in Syria. I guess that is not an issue for Turkey that seems to have no issue in funding ISIS to the tune of billions through buying their oil and by default have a responsibility for a lot of the issues now occurring in Syria and across Europe.

Lets not defend terrorism in any of its forms..

:-)

originally posted by: angeldoll
If the Russian plane was only 7 secs. into the airspace when they shot them down, then turkey was watching and waiting for them. I believe that's called an ambush.

Well, yeah, but they were warned several times NOT to enter Turkish airspace prior to that case of the plane being seven seconds in the airspace.

I mean, if I repeatedly warn a guy who repeatedly runs at me with a knife to stop, I don't think it's unreasonable for me to use potentially deadly force to defend myself the time that he finally gets to within striking distance of me.

a reply to: purplemer

Then why do you support it in E. Ukraine and Crimea by Russia?

Secondly using the same standards Assad also is a terrorist then.
Third it doesnt change the fact Turkey didnt kill the pilot.
Fourth it doesnt change the fact russia violated turkish airspace... again.

originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: Xcathdra

Just stop them from violating their airspace. The rebels killed the pilot, which i think is only fair since russia has been killing them instead of isis.

The rebels you are referring too are terrorists in Syria. I guess that is not an issue for Turkey that seems to have no issue in funding ISIS to the tune of billions through buying their oil and by default have a responsibility for a lot of the issues now occurring in Syria and across Europe.

Lets not defend terrorism in any of its forms..

:-)

Please understand this little issue ; Asad buys most of ISIS oil thru a Syrian Russian businesmen network.

The oil Turks buy from the international markets are all on books and checks out .

Of course there are oil smugglers in the region but the oil is predominantly sold to Asad first.

a reply to: Xcathdra

First the US denies things all the time.Example? Doctors without borders hospital in Afghanistan anyone?
Second:

When you decide to stop playing the pick and ignore game then your post might carry a valid question.

If that isn't the pot calling the kettle black.....

I have gone round with you on a few posts on ATS with you refusing to answer questions that you either A didn't have an answer for,or B had a weak argument and didn't want to put out that you are simply going on emotions instead of gathering data to make up your mind. So I will ask again:
you are for committing war crimes? What because of Putin? Does that throw out the rules or something?If you stoop lower than your enemy and commit atrocities more heinous than they do,are you not worse than what you complain about? Then aren't you the heinous one? Since Turkey signed the Geneva Convention in 1954,they need to uphold it. No excuses. These 'rebels' are armed and backed by Turkey,and Turkey admits it,says they are their 'brothers'.

The rebels killed the pilot, which i think is only fair since russia has been killing them instead of isis.

Really?

www.thedailybeast.com...
robertlindsay.wordpress.com...
www.cnn.com...

And if you bother,you can find even more sources than what I am providing.These links show that Russia IS bombing ISIS,and you can find more more more.

Stop picking and choosing one side over the other. The only way to get to the truth is to look at ALL sides,then decide where it all leads by the evidence. That is the difference between a good detective and a bad one.The good one looks at all the evidence and lets it lead them to the most logical conclusion. The bad one comes into it with their mind pretty much made up and uses the 'facts' that only support their story they want to tell. Everything else gets pitched out,no matter how important it is in telling the 'real' story.

I get that you are rabidly anti Putin for whatever reason. He is no angel by anyones standards.Okay. But that does not make Russia wrong in every single thing it says or does,NOR EVEN PUTIN. Our government has had what? 3 years to deal with this? and ISIS has only gotten stronger???? What kind of nonsense are they pulling over there? We only took about 4 years to fight a world war,but we can't defeat a bunch of guys in the desert frothing at the mouth? I don't believe that,nor do I think anyone sane would. I hold the US to a higher standard.We have the ability and resources to be better and do better in this world. Nothing less is excusable.

a reply to: Dimithae

The US didnt deny the incident with the hospital. Not only did we admit it several people have been relieved because it happened. If you spent more time researching instead of stoping at the point you think you have a "gotcha" moment with the US you wouldnt be as embarrassed when you are proven wrong.

Russia on the other hand still insist they havent killed any civilians in syria, which is a lie.

Of course I am not for war crimes but you calling something a war crime doesnt make it so. Russia lost their aircraft because they once again violated turkish airspace all the while not attacking anything isis related.

Yes the US AND RUSSIA have the ability to do better.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I agree with this guy,Retired Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling, former commander of U.S. Army Europe,

www.cnn.com...

A soldier is a soldier and they shouldn't be condemned for doing their job.They don't 'deserve' to be killed.


I am not embarrassed at all.Let me clarify the Doctors without borders incident. The US denied that it was only doctors and patients in the hospital.They claimed that the Taliban was in there firing on them and the Afghan forces. In truth it looks like it is shaping up that both the US and the Afghanis 'targeted' this hospital on purpose. They had come through a few days before the strikes checking out the facilities,and at first did claim that this was a Taliban focal point.The US said that the hospital was "collateral damage". Someone had to explain that they had just committed a war crime to them. Stupid.

Now as far as Russia and their claims. The US has been challenged by Russia to show what and where Russia has bombed that was a civilian structure. So far we have been extremely elusive and refuse outright to name a place for them. The one place we alluded too a picture shows it standing and not damaged. How easy is it to check with google in this day and age?

Any country can make mistakes no matter how hard they try,when bombing places.You are supposed to try your best not too,and with GPS being accurate now,it helps. Just make sure you leave the no fly zones alone.

And Russia was trying to cut the oil line into Turkey to cut off the money flowing into ISIS coffers.That line leads right up to Turkey's border.

a reply to: 23432

It has been mentioned by several sources that Assad buys oil from IS/ISIS, but that there is a Syrian-Russian business network behind it is new to me.
However this would certainly be an answer to why the oil industry which obviously is very important to IS hasn't been targeted sooner.
Also this could be a good reason why Russia has been so opposed against an intervention.
Up to now i've failed to see any viable reason for the Russian stance on Syria, its obviously not the syrian population he cares about, all the civilian casualties since August are proof of that.
The Qatar-Turkey pipeline that must go across Syria would be since Putin will not want competition from the gulf states that eat away a part of the european market.
If this is so, then Assad is in the way of Turkey and Qatar's plans to realize this pipeline.

Do you have sources which you can share on this network?

originally posted by: purplemer
The rebels you are referring too are terrorists in Syria. I guess that is not an issue for Turkey that seems to have no issue in funding ISIS to the tune of billions through buying their oil and by default have a responsibility for a lot of the issues now occurring in Syria and across Europe.

Lets not defend terrorism in any of its forms..

So Russia was equally wrong to defend the terrorists in Ukraine?

a reply to: St Udio

There are historical precedents of attempts to steal Russian tech. In this context, I remember the 1989 Belgian MiG-23 crash.

What the wikipedia page won't tell you is that it could have been possible to shot the plane above inhabited areas, but they expected to do it above sea in order to try to reduce the damage and be able to recover more bits of the plane. The plane crashed about 30 km from the shore on a house and very parts could be recovered.



Russia’s Aerospace Forces chief: Turkish F-16 didn't warn Su-24M crew at agreed frequency

Turkey’s F-16 that downed Russian bomber was in Syrian airspace for 40 seconds

originally posted by: St Udio
the most interesting & intriguing back-page story I heard on the Russian bomber knock-out is that the Nato team were attempting to have the Russians turn on their super-secret Electronics Jamming Device...

so that Air-to-air missiles cannot be fired and all the pilots stealth electronics (so as to not become a highly 'painted' target) get jammed and useless.

it is a whisper secret that Israel jets were sent to Syrian airspace --- but they found that their aircraft suddenly found themselves both unprotected in defense and unarmed in electronic warfare that disarms/ disrupts the GPS targeting for the onboard missiles... and the Russians in Syria communicated to the Israeli jets on the universal rescue channels to immediately depart from the Syrian airspace (which they did without hesitation)


it seems the Russians now have that mysterious ability to electronically disarm jets/missiles/ICBMs in a very precise area,,, at will.... just like the UFOs do to nuclear subs or silo housed ICBMs the USA has all over the 50 States


true or not...the shoot-down of an older/vintage Russian bomber & the supposed 5 minute Turkish warnings to the bomber was an intentional ploy to have the Russians 'turn-on' the electronic/EM jamming devices to Save the Russian bomber from a missile strike/shoot down by a single F16 from a NATO aggressor


something that needs developing--> is to find out IF Nato is a generation behind Russian capability of today...
Putin is the new 'boss'... step aside Springsteen]

It is clear that both sides are lying abd that the incident was not as simple as it seems..

My guess is that the shootdown was inadvertent and the Turkish pilots were indeed trying to force the use of the new jamming equipment.

Everyone has something to hide.

a reply to: clay2 baraka

It was on purpose. Ive explained why a hundred times. Both sides are still lying.