Turkey Warns Russia Not To 'Play With Fire'

originally posted by: kloejen
a reply to: Telos
I would turn it around and say "Turkey, don't play with fire".

Turkey doesn't have a choice but to play with fire. Either they shoot down a Russian fighter and make the Russian people angry. Or they fail to take action against the Russian jet and make ISIS and other rebels angry, and Turkey just got a terrorist bomb recently. It's a no win situation for Turkey, and Putin being professional needs to recognize that unless Putin wants to sign an agreement to protect Turkey from terrorists.

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain


Putin could vaporize Turkey in a split second. Even with conventional warfare, Turkey would be done in 3 weeks maximum.

Erdogan has lost his Mother F****ING mind

en.wikipedia.org...

North Atlantic Treaty which was signed on 4 April 1949. The organization constitutes a system of collective defence whereby its member states agree to mutual defense in response to an attack by any external party.

Erdogan is well within his rights to shoot down a plane in his airspace. Especially a fighter jet on a bombing run. Would it really have been that hard for the jet to avoid Turkish airspace. No. Why risk it?

originally posted by: Telos

originally posted by: the2ofusr1

"It’s no secret that Turkey has always been a source of problems in the Crimea, whether it was part of the Ukraine or Russia. Turkey has always considered the Crimea as their territory, only temporarily lost by the Ottoman Empire. Because of that, they have constantly created problems, which strengthened rapidly after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

I have to agree with you. I do have an interests in global politics and I do follow a lot ex superpowers and their behavior. Turkey has been doing the same in the Balcans too. They have the nerve to consider that part of Europe as theirs and have been messing around a lot with bosnian people, albanians and macedonians. Their secret service is heavily on the ground in those countries and more than once have been caught inciting religious conflicts, protests against the governments and so forth. For 500 years ottomans plagued those areas, killed and murdered thousands and hundred of thousands of people, destroyed their culture, banned those people from learning their own language and persecuted them when they did so, wiped out traces of their origin and authenticity, forcefully converted them to islam from christianity... and now have the nerve to sell morals and dogma to the world?

Talk about irony...

I love the way how simplification aids the dehumanisation process .


Crimea = Kirim ; even the peninsula has a Turkish name .

If Ottomans oppressed language , religion and culture then all of Balkans today would be speaking in Turkish , attend to Mosque and eat Turkish Delight all the time .

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Telos

Ey! No need to be so rude. I just thought it was interesting how the BBC was slightly downplaying the danger in the situation...
Is this personal to you, or why get so insulting? All pumped up finally a war, yeah! Or what is your deal?

I'llhave a guess ;

He is on mission from God to rid the earth of Turks ; he is angry that you don't get it .

Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Numan Kurtulmuş has said Turkey and Russia will not sacrifice their bilateral relations because of the recent downing of a Russian aircraft which violated Turkish airspace. "I would like to mention sincerely that neither Turkey nor the Russian Federation are going to remove or sacrifice their relationship because of this situation," Kurtulmuş told the media after a Cabinet meeting in Ankara. "We wish this crisis to not grow bigger, not to go further, [and hope it will] be dealt with through mutual negotiations within a short time," he said. Kurtulmuş said that Turkey had shown utmost care to not get involved in another crisis since the country was already located in a region, which had been turned into a "ring of fire".

www.dailysabah.com...

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain
Putin could vaporize Turkey in a split second. Even with conventional warfare, Turkey would be done in 3 weeks maximum.

How, exactly?

Or is this Russian fanboy wet dream nonsense again? The Turkish Army is virtually the same size as Russia's and their Navy dwarfs the Black Sea Fleet, who'd be stuck there unable to break through the Bosporus. Granted, the Russia Air force is larger but it would find going up against the Turks somewhat of a challenge.

And all the above ignores the fact that should Russia attack Turkey, they have to contend with NATO and without going nuclear, that is a War Russia simply cannot win.

originally posted by: 23432



I love the way how simplification aids the dehumanisation process .

Crimea = Kirim ; even the peninsula has a Turkish name .

If Ottomans oppressed language , religion and culture then all of Balkans today would be speaking in Turkish , attend to Mosque and eat Turkish Delight all the time .

Is not simplification, it's history. Albanians were 100 % Christians (half catholic and half orthodox of the byzantine rite) and forcefully were converted to islam (almost 80 % of the population) during 500 years of Ottoman occupation. Their language is the only indo - european language that was prohibitet to be learned in schools, (writing and reading) by a special law signed from a Sultan in 17th century (don't recall the name), The same thing happened to Bosnia where the process of islamization of the population was similar. So happened in Macedonia where the process went even further because murdered local population was replaced with barbarians from steppes and caves of the Ottoman Empire.

I'm not on any mission because I cannot invent history or fake it. Is there to be read and learned from everyone. Unless you come from the pool of the logical fallacy and your head is where the sun doesn't shine. Then is a different story...

originally posted by: Telos
Is not simplification, it's history. Albanians were 100 % Christians (half catholic and half orthodox of the byzantine rite) and forcefully were converted to islam (almost 80 % of the population) during 500 years of Ottoman occupation

But people are generally have abandoned the faith or are in the process of abandoning the faith long before they get overrun by the heathen hordes, so lets not feel too sorry for the Albanians. If they were doing what they should they probably wouldn't be getting overrun.

This turkey sounds like the kid in the playground who talks rubbish and gets chased away only to hide behind the bigger kid to have his battle fought for him......

originally posted by: Miracula2

originally posted by: Telos
Is not simplification, it's history. Albanians were 100 % Christians (half catholic and half orthodox of the byzantine rite) and forcefully were converted to islam (almost 80 % of the population) during 500 years of Ottoman occupation

But people are generally have abandoned the faith or are in the process of abandoning the faith long before they get overrun by the heathen hordes, so lets not feel too sorry for the Albanians. If they were doing what they should they probably wouldn't be getting overrun.

I'm not feeling sorry for no one. I'm stating the facts. I also mentioned bosnians and macedonians, not only albanians. Why do you focus on albanians? Bottom line, turks lead by Erdogan seam to have this tendency of trying to bring back the infamous old days. Way to many countries suffered from them in those time. Mentioning this is not being emotional or feeling sorry for someone, is just having a debate with historical references.

a reply to: Telos

Obviously, Erdogan is a madman ...

originally posted by: Miracula2

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain


Putin could vaporize Turkey in a split second. Even with conventional warfare, Turkey would be done in 3 weeks maximum.

Erdogan has lost his Mother F****ING mind

en.wikipedia.org...

North Atlantic Treaty which was signed on 4 April 1949. The organization constitutes a system of collective defence whereby its member states agree to mutual defense in response to an attack by any external party.

Erdogan is well within his rights to shoot down a plane in his airspace. Especially a fighter jet on a bombing run. Would it really have been that hard for the jet to avoid Turkish airspace. No. Why risk it?

It says defence in response to an attack, you fail to see that Russia wasn't attacking turkey...majority of military experts know that.

originally posted by: Telos

originally posted by: 23432



I love the way how simplification aids the dehumanisation process .

Crimea = Kirim ; even the peninsula has a Turkish name .

If Ottomans oppressed language , religion and culture then all of Balkans today would be speaking in Turkish , attend to Mosque and eat Turkish Delight all the time .

Is not simplification, it's history. Albanians were 100 % Christians (half catholic and half orthodox of the byzantine rite) and forcefully were converted to islam (almost 80 % of the population) during 500 years of Ottoman occupation. Their language is the only indo - european language that was prohibitet to be learned in schools, (writing and reading) by a special law signed from a Sultan in 17th century (don't recall the name), The same thing happened to Bosnia where the process of islamization of the population was similar. So happened in Macedonia where the process went even further because murdered local population was replaced with barbarians from steppes and caves of the Ottoman Empire.

I'm not on any mission because I cannot invent history or fake it. Is there to be read and learned from everyone. Unless you come from the pool of the logical fallacy and your head is where the sun doesn't shine. Then is a different story...

Ottoman Empire had it's good side and bad sides , just like any other Empire of that time .

Experts actually agree that the Ottoman Empire was relatively better then it's counter parts of that age .

You are painting a picture of a past were the " Big Bad Wolf " came and ate everyone around them .

That is the most blatant simplification I can see in your narrative .

If these forcefull conversions were true - and they are not - then how is it that the Christians in Balkans still exists ?

The historical narrative you are following is the one that makes Columbus a hero .

Columbus was an asshole and Ottomans were not as bad as you would have people believe .

Logical fallacy to me it seems is to follow strict western historical narrative at the expense of bigger picture .

originally posted by: 23432


Ottoman Empire had it's good side and bad sides , just like any other Empire of that time .

Experts actually agree that the Ottoman Empire was relatively better then it's counter parts of that age .

That's the biggest fail ever. How can it be not as bad when it's an occupying force? What occupation in the middle ages was smooth and "nice" to the population they tried to subdue? I hope you're not from those areas otherwise your claim can represent the most accurate Stockholm Syndrome example.

You are painting a picture of a past were the " Big Bad Wolf " came and ate everyone around them .

That is the most blatant simplification I can see in your narrative .

Once again, is not but what history says. Not to long ago I was reading some records from the so called scribes (I think there were seven of them) of the empire who followed the army in their campaigns and their duty was to record with accuracy what happened. In their own words, what was pictures was really some of the most gruesome and barbaric thing to read. The violence against the local population after the army was defeated and was retrieving was something of a nightmare. The killings, destroying, carnal violence, crimes against the culture and the memory was so massive that entire ares of population were wiped out and it took over 2 centuries for those to be build back.

If these forcefull conversions were true - and they are not - then how is it that the Christians in Balkans still exists ?

The historical narrative you are following is the one that makes Columbus a hero .

Columbus was an asshole and Ottomans were not as bad as you would have people believe .

Logical fallacy to me it seems is to follow strict western historical narrative at the expense of bigger picture .

There are Christians now but that doesn't deny what I'm saying. They were a lot more, and a lot, a lot of them escaped to Italy because between the choice of getting killed for not converting or losing their religion, they preferred losing their own country. Etc... I don't want to really derail the thread in stuff like that because it will be out of topic. What was said was just to illustrate a point and not to make it the main subject. And to finish my replica with you, is not me painting anything. Are the historical facts and data. If those end up painting Columbus a hero so be it, if he ends up being painted as a genocidal mofo, again, that's the history, not me.

A little friendly advice, when you discuss about history, educate yourself and read some before you get into an argument. History is not a bubble gum for you to chew.

originally posted by: Telos

originally posted by: 23432


Ottoman Empire had it's good side and bad sides , just like any other Empire of that time .

Experts actually agree that the Ottoman Empire was relatively better then it's counter parts of that age .

That's the biggest fail ever. How can it be not as bad when it's an occupying force? What occupation in the middle ages was smooth and "nice" to the population they tried to subdue? Your claim can represent the most accurate Stockholm Syndrome example.

You are painting a picture of a past were the " Big Bad Wolf " came and ate everyone around them .

That is the most blatant simplification I can see in your narrative .

Once again, is not but what history says. Not to long ago I was reading some records from the so called scribes (I think there were seven of them) of the empire who followed the army in their campaigns and their duty was to record with accuracy what happened. In their own words, what was pictures was really some of the most gruesome and barbaric thing to read. The violence against the local population after the army was defeated and was retrieving was something of a nightmare. The killings, destroying, carnal violence, crimes against the culture and the memory was so massive that entire ares of population were wiped out and it took over 2 centuries for those to be build back.

If these forcefull conversions were true - and they are not - then how is it that the Christians in Balkans still exists ?

The historical narrative you are following is the one that makes Columbus a hero .

Columbus was an asshole and Ottomans were not as bad as you would have people believe .

Logical fallacy to me it seems is to follow strict western historical narrative at the expense of bigger picture .

There are Christians now but that doesn't deny what I'm saying. They were a lot more, and a lot, a lot of them escaped to Italy because between the choice of getting killed for not converting or losing their religion, they preferred losing their own country. Etc... I don't want to really derail the thread in stuff like that because it will be out of topic. What was said was just to illustrate a point and not to make it the main subject. And to finish my replica with you, is not me painting anything. Are the historical facts and data. If those end up painting Columbus a hero so be it, if he ends up being painted as a genocidal mofo, again, that's the history, not me.

A little friendly advice, when you discuss about history, educate yourself and read some before you get into an argument. History is not a bubble gum for you to chew.

Believe it or not no empire can sustain itself 600 years with pure barbarism and cruelty.

There are lots of Albanian Turks and they all know that they are Albanians too .
It seems that you equate being Albanian & European to be a Christian first & upmost but that is not historical truth .

History is always written by winners . I think the most accurate records for the that era is to be found in Ottoman archives , they were notorious record keepers .

Thank you for your friendly advice . Here is my friendly advice for you ; the historical narrative you support is the one also supported by White Supremacists .

This is ATS and not stormfront ,you can't deny the obvious here .

originally posted by: 23432

Believe it or not no empire can sustain itself 600 years with pure barbarism and cruelty.

There are lots of Albanian Turks and they all know that they are Albanians too .
It seems that you equate being Albanian & European to be a Christian first & upmost but that is not historical truth .

History is always written by winners . I think the most accurate records for the that era is to be found in Ottoman archives , they were notorious record keepers .

Thank you for your friendly advice . Here is my friendly advice for you ; the historical narrative you support is the one also supported by White Supremacists .

This is ATS and not stormfront ,you can't deny the obvious here .

I had to look it up what stormfront is and I'm disgusted. I mean there is garbage in internet but that was something really putrid (thought wise). And your line of thinking and that of the debate was very similar. Most likely you're a regular poster there. Now, because I don't think the way you do and I have my arguments to sustain the topic at hand, that makes me a white supremacists? Dude, this is ATS not stormfront.

I see you like to focus on one nationality despite the fact that I've mentioned over three of those. I'm neither but because in my country we have a multicultural society, I have a lot of friends from Balkan, Serbians, Croatians, Bosnian, Albanians, Macedonians and Greeks and while they might have their differences and conflicts due to some sick nationalistic agendas of their leadership throughout history, they agree unanimously on one thing, Turkish invasion and then occupation for 500 years was the worst thing that could have happened to that peninsula. And to reply to your comment on who writes history, I already told you that Turkish scribes were the one who recorded the crimes against the population and the destruction of urban areas and their culture. Not my problem that you chose to ignore that. I've read some posts on stormfront out of curiosity and your line of thinking is the same that comes from the pool of 500 years Turkish rape that gave birth to some strange by product who are so twisted in their thinking that because of the religion are ready to deny and ignore even the glorious history of their own country and its heroes. Most likely you belong to that religion that pushes its followers to think that their faith comes first, before the nationality and the country. And because of that you are willing to deny historical moments and really heroic individuals who fought against ottomans and not only were victor for many decades but also contributed in stopping the barbaric ottoman wave from reaching Western Europe. After your post I had to get in touch with some of the friends from those areas and show your post. Especially this part: it seems that you equate being Albanian & European to be a Christian first & upmost but that is not historical truth showed to them what you are and what you represent. Exactly the by product type I was talking about. I'm not going to mention because this thread is not about you, nor your religious choices but is about Turkey and its actions. However I'm going to say this, I'm glad in my country there are no people like you. You're your own country's problem.

p.s. To stop the same back and forth mentality I saw at stormfron, I'm making it clear that this was the last reply to you.

a reply to: Telos

If this scenario should result in a war my prediction of the outcome...
Russia will be having turkey for christmas dinner!

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
This turkey sounds like the kid in the playground who talks rubbish and gets chased away only to hide behind the bigger kid to have his battle fought for him......

originally posted by: mamabeth
a reply to: Telos

If this scenario should result in a war my prediction of the outcome...
Russia will be having turkey for christmas dinner!

Yeah, about time they learn their place.

Body of shot down Russian pilot in custody of Turkish authorities

The body of a Russian pilot killed after his jet was shot down by the Turkish military has been handed over to Turkish authorities, Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu told journalists in Ankara on Sunday.

At Russia's request, the pilot had been given Orthodox funeral rites, and his body would be handed over to Russia, Turkey's semi-official Anadolu news agency reported.

www.cnn.com...

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

You are forgetting the largest military force in the world coming to Russia's aid. China.

I don't think the U.S can handle both super powers on their own. Between Russia and china, we have alot to worry about.

Wasn't china recently plotting an attack on U.S soil?



Regardless of what side you are on, the one thing we can ALL agree on is stopping this war from happening. Because we will NOT survive a war of this caliber. Noone will, its extinction level events that people should be concerned with.


But here we are arguing on which side is correct.


HOW ABOUT the side that wants NO war is correct? And the side that wants war is leading humanity towards extinction? Who is the bad guy? Who is the villain? Common sense says, he who fires first is the villain.


But meanwhile we all argue on who is right and who is wrong, while ignoring the fact that if this war happens, we may all just as well dig our graves because once it begins, we.... all ...fall .....down.


WW 4 (assuming some cave dwellers survive the aftermath) will be fought with sticks and stones.