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Air Force drone pilots expose U.S. government of murder.

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posted on Dec, 1 2015 @ 12:18 PM
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a reply to: stevieray
No not everything I disagree with is inferior. Just the so called "facts" you spout that are 100% wrong and the ignorant, patronizing comments on everything no "Merikan".




posted on Dec, 1 2015 @ 12:19 PM
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originally posted by: Tyrion79
a reply to: Xtrozero

In this day and age, the fact that their coordinates were "off", especially concerning a warplane is simply no viable excuse.
Besides, that still doesn't explain, why the attack wasn't aborted after MSF contacted U.S. officials and allowed the attack to continue for more than 30 mins.

Yes, coordinates can still be off for a variety of reasons. Good Lord, you're just making up personal universal truths now, lol.

Depends on who contacted whom, and how. Some random schmoe with no way to validate his identity or claims ? No, they will probably not stop the war for that.

You are lacking any details whatsoever for your little exercise here. They help, really.



posted on Dec, 1 2015 @ 12:20 PM
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originally posted by: Tyrion79

In this day and age, the fact that their coordinates were "off", especially concerning a warplane is simply no viable excuse.
Besides, that still doesn't explain, why the attack wasn't aborted after MSF contacted U.S. officials and allowed the attack to continue for more than 30 mins.


I was in the Military for 28 years and I fly drones today. Coordinates can be a hard thing to get correctly. Coordinates from a camera can be off by 200 yards and that is why laser identifier are used in many cases. As I said the main failure was at the crew level plain and simple. Is this something you disagree with? The delay I can not answer to since all it would need is some guy in the chain to think the information wasn't credible.



posted on Dec, 1 2015 @ 12:22 PM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: stevieray
They probably have some feelings of guilt.....unless they know of enemy combatants in the area, and their actions involved them. Then they probably know full well that what they did was necessary, even if tragic in some ways.


What they did was not necessary, it was a huge mistake and that is how they see it... geez

Unless they know a few more details than you, which makes their actions credible.

You'll never know, and neither will I.

Lack of a new Nuremberg Trials (as you desire lol) is more likely to point to this, than your grand global conspiracy.



posted on Dec, 1 2015 @ 12:27 PM
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originally posted by: stevieray
Unless they know a few more details than you, which makes their actions credible.


I agree with your statement, but personally I highly doubt it though. To me it was a huge mistake. I work with ex predictor pilots, navy seals, gun ship crews etc and no one sees it any different. I have 5000 hours on C-130s too along with other airplanes, but hell you never know if some 3 digit department is involved.


edit on 1-12-2015 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2015 @ 12:27 PM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Tyrion79

In this day and age, the fact that their coordinates were "off", especially concerning a warplane is simply no viable excuse.
Besides, that still doesn't explain, why the attack wasn't aborted after MSF contacted U.S. officials and allowed the attack to continue for more than 30 mins.


I was in the Military for 28 years and I fly drones today. Coordinates can be a hard thing to get correctly. Coordinates from a camera can be off by 200 yards and that is why laser identifier are used in many cases. As I said the main failure was at the crew level plain and simple. Is this something you disagree with? The delay I can not answer to since all it would need is some guy in the chain to think the information wasn't credible.

GPS / GIS and growing computer applications certainly has helped accuracy. Which was seemingly his feeble point. But the info still goes through several stages of human handling and processing, especially in the field. Still many opportunities for fat fingering or verbal / mental gaffes.

Still has nothing to do with S or TS details on who and what were also at that target, that we will never be privy to.

Lack of a big splashy prosecution would indicate this, but not in the world of the ATS muckraker, haha. Each time they don't get their way, it's just another level of the great conspiracy coverup. Never that there's just nothing there, lol.



posted on Dec, 1 2015 @ 12:29 PM
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a reply to: DeathSlayer

Nobel Peace prize winner Obama.... what a twisted world we live in


edit on 1-12-2015 by FamCore because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2015 @ 12:31 PM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: stevieray
Unless they know a few more details than you, which makes their actions credible.


I agree with your statement, but personally I highly doubt it though. To me it was a huge mistake. I work with ex predictor pilots, navy seals, gun ship crews etc and no one sees it any different. I have 5000 hours on C-130s too along with other airplanes, but hell you never know if some 3 digit department is involved.


I think the point is that we'll all have our opinions, and none of us will ever truly know.

That's what I'm trying to impress upon several of these guys, but it's apparently just not fun and fulfilling enough for them. Must demonize the military, ya know, regardless of no proof for it.



posted on Dec, 1 2015 @ 12:33 PM
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originally posted by: stevieray
GPS / GIS and growing computer applications certainly has helped accuracy. Which was seemingly his feeble point. But the info still goes through several stages of human handling and processing, especially in the field. Still many opportunities for fat fingering or verbal / mental gaffes.


GPS is excellent to know where you are at, not so good at locating a spot on the ground though a camera. Now if they actually had a GPS near the primary target the accuracy is inches, next is laser identifier to just physically see where the target is by seeing the laser actually on it. I believe people get confused in thinking GPS can somehow tell you a location other than where the GPS is at and that is not true.



posted on Dec, 1 2015 @ 12:34 PM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: stevieray
Unless they know a few more details than you, which makes their actions credible.


I agree with your statement, but personally I highly doubt it though. To me it was a huge mistake. I work with ex predictor pilots, navy seals, gun ship crews etc and no one sees it any different. I have 5000 hours on C-130s too along with other airplanes, but hell you never know if some 3 digit department is involved.


It could absolutely be a mistake. How the hell would anybody at ATS know, lol ? But we don't prosecute our people for mistakes at war, generally, if it was based in the fog of war and a reasonable attempt to do the right thing.

Gross / Criminal negligence ? Criminal Coverup ? Still have to find and bring the facts, not just grouse on the internet.



posted on Dec, 1 2015 @ 12:35 PM
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a reply to: Xtrozero

Just saying, that you'ed have to be damn sure of your target, before leveling an entire facility for over an hour.
As of yet, I haven't seen any credible explanations regarding this incident, other than some technical or human errors.

What if the hospital was filled with wounded U.S. soldiers, would people talk about this so lightly?

Based on what I've read so far, there's absolutely no garantee that incidents like this will be prevented in the future.
The "oops, we've been mistaken, sorry collateral damage" excuse that is being used here, doesn't go very well with me, let alone for those victims and families who are still greaving this massacre.

Also, north-east Afghanistan is now without a hospital, affecting thousands of civilians who relied upon it for healthcare.
Way to go U.S.A.!



posted on Dec, 1 2015 @ 12:37 PM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: yuppa
Article 19 of the 4th geneva convention excuses the hospital bombing. the DWB were providing support for the enemies of the insurgents/terrorist by patching up and hiding out some of them. and therefore their not protected in that instance. MEdical care is to be neutral and not to help one side or the other.


True, but this would mean they would need to attack it knowing it was a hospital. It is also against the Geneva Convention to kill civilians, and so I guess for every civilian casualty there should be a court case, and Russia is sure stacking up the numbers right now with their massive bombing. In the end for both cases it needs to be determined if the deaths were the reason for the attack or just results of an attack on something else that is legal to attack.


Well Its only a war crime IF they knew those were civilians and did it on purpose. the Aircrew casnt tell who is who that high up in a Gunship and relies on the spotters on the ground. All they knew is th edirected th efire to where the shooting was coming from. civilians casualties. oops no intentional killing of them has been proven so its a non issue.



posted on Dec, 1 2015 @ 12:38 PM
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originally posted by: FamCore
a reply to: DeathSlayer

Nobel Peace prize winner Obama.... what a twisted world we live in



wow, what a nifty opportunity for an Israel bash !! Wrong thread and kinda silly......but who's counting ?

Both sides in the ME have had their terrorists and extremists.....just look at the sheer volume / # of incidents / etc.

That doesn't lie.



posted on Dec, 1 2015 @ 12:40 PM
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originally posted by: Tyrion79
Based on what I've read so far, there's absolutely no garantee that incidents like this will be prevented in the future.
The "oops, we've been mistaken, sorry collateral damage" excuse that is being used here, doesn't go very well with me, let alone for those victims and families who are still greaving this massacre.


Once again this is just a personal view...

I really see error so bad in this that people on the crew should have action against them. I also think others in the chain maybe even worst offenders and also should have action taken against them. This was truly a grievous error that should never have happen, and pretty damn hard to just say "my bad".

I don't think any of this plays into the OP's title though.
edit on 1-12-2015 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2015 @ 12:40 PM
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originally posted by: Tyrion79
a reply to: Xtrozero

Just saying, that you'ed have to be damn sure of your target, before leveling an entire facility for over an hour.
As of yet, I haven't seen any credible explanations regarding this incident, other than some technical or human errors.

What if the hospital was filled with wounded U.S. soldiers, would people talk about this so lightly?

Based on what I've read so far, there's absolutely no garantee that incidents like this will be prevented in the future.
The "oops, we've been mistaken, sorry collateral damage" excuse that is being used here, doesn't go very well with me, let alone for those victims and families who are still greaving this massacre.

Also, north-east Afghanistan is now without a hospital, affecting thousands of civilians who relied upon it for healthcare.
Way to go U.S.A.!


You still have absolutely no idea of the details and reasons.

But you may win on sheer poundage of words.



posted on Dec, 1 2015 @ 12:41 PM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Tyrion79
Based on what I've read so far, there's absolutely no garantee that incidents like this will be prevented in the future.
The "oops, we've been mistaken, sorry collateral damage" excuse that is being used here, doesn't go very well with me, let alone for those victims and families who are still greaving this massacre.


Once again this is just a personal view...

I really see error so bad in this that people on the crew should have action against them. I also think others in the chain maybe even worst offenders and also should have action taken against them. This was truly a grievous error that should never have happen, and pretty damn hard to just say "my bad".

Again, all opinions are fair game.

Just need the details. Mai Lai ? The details were damning. Hiroshima and Nagasaki ? The details were exonerating. Need to know which is true here.



posted on Dec, 1 2015 @ 12:43 PM
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originally posted by: stevieray
Must demonize the military, ya know, regardless of no proof for it.


*Holds up mirror*

Must glorify the military, regardless of proof.



posted on Dec, 1 2015 @ 12:44 PM
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originally posted by: stevieray

Just need the details. Mai Lai ? The details were damning. Hiroshima and Nagasaki ? The details were exonerating. Need to know which is true here.


All I'm saying is if it was an error it was truly a grievous one. If it was not an error then we really need further details to understand, details we will never get.



posted on Dec, 1 2015 @ 12:48 PM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero
I don't think any of this plays into the OP's title though.


Nope, the discussion derailed a couple of pages ago, however I've stated my thoughts on the OP before that.
As to the current subject of the hospital, I have said what I wanted about that too and I'll cease replying to it on this thread as of now.



posted on Dec, 1 2015 @ 12:54 PM
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originally posted by: Tyrion79

Nope, the discussion derailed a couple of pages ago, however I've stated my thoughts on the OP before that.
As to the current subject of the hospital, I have said what I wanted about that too and I'll cease replying to it on this thread as of now.


Things have a tendency to do that. To be honest I have had my views changed by discussion, but there are many here that can not move an inch from their initial view even after a 1000 posts to help them.




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