Air Force drone pilots expose U.S. government of murder.

a reply to: FyreByrd

No they're neither, they're f'ing idiots...that have been manipulated into doing something asinine. Being willing to die for a cause and purposefully and willfully killing yourself are two different things.

I"m willing to kill for a cause, but I'm never willing to die for one. If I die while attempting the former, so be it but that doesn't make me willing to do so.

Jaden

a reply to: crazyewok

You perspective is a tad skewed... before the US got involved, the UK was getting their ASSes handed to them. The air raids on your country were destroying your country's moral and you were losing...

Jaden

originally posted by: Masterjaden
... before the US got involved, the UK was getting their ASSes handed to them. The air raids on your country were destroying your country's moral and you were losing...

What "history" books did you learn from?

The battle of Britain (which we WON) ended on31 October 1940
That more or less put a stop to the German Invasion of the UK and rendered there air force a shambles.

Our Royal navy was in tact and no idea were you get your idea Moral was in shambles? Source? The bombing just pissed us off more with Germany!

We likely could not have liberated mainland Europe on our own. But we were certainly not losing or at risk of Germans invading by December 1941. Worse it would have ended in a draw with a negotiated peace.


USA played a major part, but it was no more major than the UK or Russia. None of us likely would have "won" the 100% victory without the other. Why cant you Americans just accept it was a ALLIED victory? Why do you feel the need to piss on the graves of the British that died in equal numbers with equal effort along side you Americans?

I would say your You perspective is a tad skewed and certainly hollywood/American centric.



Pick up a REAL history book, you would be smarter for it.

originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

You're really doing a disservice to military here... You do NOT sign an agreement to obey any and all orders.

Please stop disparaging all service members with your bull#e....

Jaden

You sign an agreement which changes your rights. You no longer fall under the Constitution you bind yourself to UNIFORM CODE OF MILITARY JUSTICE. Under this code killing civilians isn't illegal if performed in the act of a law full order. What cannot be done is a direct attack on civilian population with the only intent to be to cause mass casualties. By the very nature of UCMJ assigning a target makes them a military target. There is nothing illegal about droane strikes in UCMJ and nothing even Congress can do. Military purposefully doesn't fall under civilian laws because for one they are required to kill. In a civilian court they could end up in prison.

difference is when you just perpetually keep killing with no goal in mind. funny how when your see some kind of mass killing like say in Paris for example and the next day their government bombs a few sites you gotta wonder why they don't just bomb all the known sites all at the same time and be over with it. #ing kill everybody just to get the goddam goal accomplished...... oh that's right there really is no goal or incentive to stop the war pigs.

a reply to: stuthealien

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

You're really doing a disservice to military here... You do NOT sign an agreement to obey any and all orders.

Please stop disparaging all service members with your bull#e....

Jaden

You sign an agreement which changes your rights. You no longer fall under the Constitution you bind yourself to UNIFORM CODE OF MILITARY JUSTICE. Under this code killing civilians isn't illegal if performed in the act of a law full order. What cannot be done is a direct attack on civilian population with the only intent to be to cause mass casualties. By the very nature of UCMJ assigning a target makes them a military target. There is nothing illegal about droane strikes in UCMJ and nothing even Congress can do. Military purposefully doesn't fall under civilian laws because for one they are required to kill. In a civilian court they could end up in prison.

You'd think that some of these guys would eventually get it. But they won't.

You're arguing with people who've obviously never been within 100 miles of a military installation.......but they sure can lecture on it all.

They literally believe that they can join tomorrow and start telling everybody what they will and won't do.

This is the mindset / intellect that we're arguing with here. Can't fix it. Internet feeds it.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Masterjaden
... before the US got involved, the UK was getting their ASSes handed to them. The air raids on your country were destroying your country's moral and you were losing...

What "history" books did you learn from?

The battle of Britain (which we WON) ended on31 October 1940
That more or less put a stop to the German Invasion of the UK and rendered there air force a shambles.

Our Royal navy was in tact and no idea were you get your idea Moral was in shambles? Source? The bombing just pissed us off more with Germany!

We likely could not have liberated mainland Europe on our own. But we were certainly not losing or at risk of Germans invading by December 1941. Worse it would have ended in a draw with a negotiated peace.


USA played a major part, but it was no more major than the UK or Russia. None of us likely would have "won" the 100% victory without the other. Why cant you Americans just accept it was a ALLIED victory? Why do you feel the need to piss on the graves of the British that died in equal numbers with equal effort along side you Americans?

I would say your You perspective is a tad skewed and certainly hollywood/American centric.



Pick up a REAL history book, you would be smarter for it.

It was an allied win for sure.

Doesn't change the fact that the euros get themselves into their own end times every 30 years or so. And the US is always there to do the heaviest lifting to save them from themselves.

We're also there to help other places like Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, from themselves. Don't always win outright, but at least we show up to try and minimize the stupidity and self immolation. If we don't win, the winners invariably succeed in destroying their countries and neighbors for 50 years. That's quite a win.

Man, I love me some America. We are the world's adults. Always nervously watching the euros and other bizarre specimens playing with gas and matches, hoping they leave enough time between 2nd & 3rd degree burns, for us to take everything away from them and give 'em a good spanking.

a reply to: stevieray

You have to be the most ignorant, derptastic(yes I invented that word for you), patronising person on ATS!

You cant honestly believe that yanky doodle bull#?

You must be trolling?

Heaviest lifting? In world war 2 the uK lost just as many men as you and were in the war over two years longer than you! The russians had single battles bigger than the entire european theatre throughout the war! Sure you did heavy lifting but tge USA was certainly not the only country doing heavy lifting!

Help Cuba and vietnam? YOU #ING DESTROYED THOSE COUNTRYS!

World's adults? The UK has duck houses older than your country!

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: stevieray

You have to be the most ignorant, derptastic(yes I invented that word for you), patronising person on ATS!

You cant honestly believe that yanky doodle bull#?

You must be trolling?

Heaviest lifting? In world war 2 the uK lost just as many men as you and were in the war over two years longer than you! The russians had single battles bigger than the entire european theatre throughout the war! Sure you did heavy lifting but tge USA was certainly not the only country doing heavy lifting!

Help Cuba and vietnam? YOU #ING DESTROYED THOSE COUNTRYS!

World's adults? The UK has duck houses older than your country!

Ah, so Castro, Che, and Ho & Mao have no blame. Only America, who tried to stop the fascist dictatorships from reducing the countries and economies to a 30-50 year coma.

With that kind of logic, please allow me to dismiss anything you ever say, or have ever said lol.

Yes, you have old buildings. This does not make people like Neville Chamberlain any smarter.

I like the yankee doodle thing :

Yankee Doodle went to the pub to kick the old brit's ass, when he kept demanding things. Then a few years later was nice enough to save him from an ass-whooping from the nasty old german. Twice, even. Saved him yet again a little later, from the old russian fellow about to stick a knife in his back.

Fast forward to the now reeaallllly old brit shuffling down the pike, crying that a mob of muslim teens are chasing him.

Wooop....here's old Yankee Doodle to help out, again.....

a reply to: stevieray

Yes they have blame.

But with vietnam south vietnam was just as much a dictatorship as the north.
The USA should never have got involved , doing so just created more misery.

Again with Cuba, sure its would never have been a utopia, but tge stupid embargo just made a poor country poorer! Only the everyday cuban has suffered for it! The ruling elite still eat there caviar and # in gold plated toliets.

As for chamberlain? Yes in hindsight what he did was a mistake. But at the time he was trying to avoid war.
And you forget that for our chamberlain we had a churchhill who gave the Nazi there first setbacks and stopped the UK collapseing like France.

And while you critize Chamberlain may I remind you president Roosevelt did not act on hitler either and kept the USA out the war until you were attacked....

i keep thinking to myself...

would ww2 pilots quit after bombing the hell out of germany? or would they get on the next armed bomber they could.

if your next door neighbor is getting drone strike then you're probably living in a war zone. i dont know what qualifies to be a war zone but i don't think i would live anywhere near terrorist, because of collateral damage.

that said if someone ordered a drone strike into a market full of people, I'd have to question that person's reasoning. this issue is just so murky and vague

a reply to: vjr1113

I would blame the person that ordered the strike not the one pulling the trigger.

The drone pilot for all he knows is bombing a legitimate terrorist or military target.

Its the politician or general that has the full intelligence and is therefore responsible.

a reply to: stevieray
I have lost all respect for you.

You blindly defend police brutality, defend drone strikes that clearly violate the Geneva convention, and your bigotry is clear after you rant about gay rights.

People like you are the problem here in the US.

Drone strikes that kill un armed civilians is a war crime and these Airmen did the honorable thing.

For the record, I was a Petty Officer in the US Navy.

originally posted by: stevieray
Doesn't change the fact that the euros get themselves into their own end times every 30 years or so.

Now I am getting curious...
Who are you referring to by the term euros exactly?
By all means, explain this in your logical reasoning and I'll reply to you within my reasoning.

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: stevieray
I have lost all respect for you.

You blindly defend police brutality, defend drone strikes that clearly violate the Geneva convention, and your bigotry is clear after you rant about gay rights.

People like you are the problem here in the US.

Drone strikes that kill un armed civilians is a war crime and these Airmen did the honorable thing.

For the record, I was a Petty Officer in the US Navy.

You need to read the Geneva convention air strikes in combat situations are fine. A Droane strike or a bomber makes no difference they are the same. The only difference is where the pilot is located he's not in the plane he's at a base. But this difference doesn't change the rules for air strikes. Unless your saying all air strikes which kill civilians is ilegal? If so we need to try Putin on war crimes he's killed tons of civilians in air strikes in Syria. Civilian casualties are permissable in the Geneva convention if it occurs when trying to destroy a valid military target.

Now you could argue that terrorists are not a valid military target but that means we need to start the tribunals. We would have to try Russia, France, Germany, USA, turkey,Iran, egypt, Saudi arabia, Yemen, Jordan and Israel and that's just off the top of my head. I'm sure I'm forgetting some funny when people haven't a clue go to a leftist website and scream war crimes without a clue what a true war crime is.

originally posted by: stevieray
I like the yankee doodle thing :

Yankee Doodle went to the pub to kick the old brit's ass, when he kept demanding things. Then a few years later was nice enough to save him from an ass-whooping from the nasty old german. Twice, even. Saved him yet again a little later, from the old russian fellow about to stick a knife in his back.

Fast forward to the now reeaallllly old brit shuffling down the pike, crying that a mob of muslim teens are chasing him.

Wooop....here's old Yankee Doodle to help out, again.....

if it was not for the fact I hate tyranny I would say your posts speaks for the need for minimal IQ limits to be set for internet access. ...

a reply to: crazyewok

American chauvinism has no boundaries, it sickens me to the bone at times.
Time to deflate the bubble of false ego's being displayed here and elsewhere.

a reply to: dragonridr

The Doctor's Without Borders strike is ok in accordance with the Geneva Convention?

Many more examples out there.

Clearly War Crimes have been committed. These airman have a moral backbone and it takes a hell of a lot more courage than pulling a trigger to do what they did and stand up for what is right.

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: dragonridr

The Doctor's Without Borders strike is ok in accordance with the Geneva Convention?

Many more examples out there.

Clearly War Crimes have been committed. These airman have a moral backbone and it takes a hell of a lot more courage than pulling a trigger to do what they did and stand up for what is right.

Unless you can prove they were trying to kill the doctor's no it's not a war crime. War crimes are very specific in combat.
It's defined as any of the following acts committed against persons or property protected under the provisions of the relevant Geneva Convention:
• wilful killing;
• torture or inhuman treatment, including biological experiments;
• wilfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health;
• extensive destruction or appropriation of property, not justified by military necessity and carried out unlawfully and wantonly;
• compelling a prisoner of war or other protected person to serve in the forces of a hostile Power;
• wilfully depriving a prisoner of war or other protected person of the rights of a fair and regular trial;
• unlawful deportation or transfer;
• unlawful confinement;
• taking of hostages.

Now here is a question you may ask yourself why is a person supposedly in the us military in a German inquiry into drone strikes? This doesn't strike you as odd at all does it? This wasn't a whistle blower like your article leads you to believe. Your article lied the case was brought before an administrative court trying to get the ramstien air base shut down since it was involved in the drone strike. The person who filed the case was Faisal bin Ali Jaber he is from Yemin and was a relative of Anwar al Awlaki.

Your article is totally fabricated here discusses the court case

theintercept.com...