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Understanding the situation with Syria, ISIS, and Turkey

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posted on Nov, 27 2015 @ 07:40 PM
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We live in a very complicated world and the issues in the Middle East can be hard to understand for the average observer. To many people it might feel like the Western world is some times trying to help ISIS and work against Russia, like we're playing some sort of complex proxy war. How has the Western world managed to get its self into this web of lies and what are the reasons behind it? I've been following the conflict in Syria since the beginning and in this thread I will give my interpretation of the situation and hopefully allow others to gain a deeper insight into the nature of this war. To understand what is happening in Syria a good place to start is Libya. They faced a very similar situations some years back when Gaddafi was hung out to dry by the Western world.

To put it simply, we (the Western world) portrayed him as a monster and chose to side with the rebels in overthrowing a sovereign government. We provided them with money and weapons and it didn't take too long before they were dragging the mutilated body of Gaddafi around the streets. But what were all these newly formed rebel groups to do after succeeding in Libya? Well they realized they were pretty strong with their newly found source of funding and weaponry so they started looking for other places to carry out their acts of violence. The Western world wasn't going to let this opportunity go to waste, they had a new target in their sights. They started to paint Assad as the new bad guy and thus began the conflict in Syria.

Little did they know however, things wouldn't go quite so smoothly this time around and it would be much harder to fool everyone for a second time. They began their propaganda campaign against Assad by accusing him of carrying out chemical weapon attacks against his own civilian population. This story was repeated ad nauseam by MSM pundits and was used as the main justification for direct intervention into the war in Syria. For some time the US tried to remain hidden behind the curtain, by supporting the rebel opposition without doing it publicly. Reports in 2012 started to surface saying that the US was establishing intelligence operations in Turkey and funneling weapons through the Turkish border in order to arm anti-government rebels.


A growing team of United States Central Intelligence Agency personnel is currently in Turkey overseeing a multinational effort to secretly deliver weapons to Syrian anti-government rebels, according to The New York Times. Quoting “American officials and Arab intelligence officers”, the paper said last week that the weapons are being smuggled into Syria primarily through the Turkish border. The financial cost of smuggling into Syria such weapons as antitank explosives, rocket-propelled grenades, and automatic rifles, has so far been covered by the governments of Turkey, Qatar and Saudi Arabia, according to the article. The funds are partly required to bribe members of what The Times describes as “a shadowy network of intermediaries”, which reportedly includes forces loyal to the Syrian Muslim Brotherhood.

CIA helping Turkey, Saudi Arabia, smuggle weapons into Syria: sources


There were a few reasons the US was hesitant to officially support the rebels in Syria even though they openly supported the rebels in Libya. One main reason was probably the fact that Russia is a strong supporter of the Assad regime. So for a while they only supported the rebels through these secretive networks. However the US couldn't keep up the charade forever, and in early 2013 the White House officially announced it will give military aid to Syria rebels. Meanwhile, many different researchers and organizations were unveiling how the chemical weapon claims against Assad seemed to be totally bogus and were used as a method to rile up support for the rebel opposition, and that the attacks were actually carried out by the rebels themselves:

UN accuses Syrian rebels of chemical weapons use

MIT Study Further Destroys Washington’s Syria Chemical Weapons Claim

Russia Says It Was the Syrian Rebels Who Used Chemical Weapons

Video Evidence: Syria Gas Attack Work of U.S. Allies

US defense contractors were involved in Syria gas attack: Investigative journalist

edit on 27/11/2015 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 27 2015 @ 07:40 PM
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Anyone with a brain can figure out that Assad gains nothing by terrorizing his own people, all it does is make the Western world come down on him even harder and gives the rebels more support and funding, which will only speed up his downfall. Unless he is the most stupid person on Earth, there is no way Assad would gas his own people. Based on the evidence it is far more likely that the rebels are the ones who carried out the chemical attacks on the population of Syria. This is not so hard to believe because there are many videos on the internet showing the atrocities these so called "moderates" are capable of committing.

The key point you have to realize is that these rebel groups and other groups such as ISIS are often tighly linked and share the same goals in many cases. So by working against Assad we align ourselves with these people and have common goals with terrorist groups. We are so obsessed with removing Assad from power, even if it means indirectly supporting terrorists in the process. However, Russia is on the opposite end of the fight, they want to support Assad and destroy these terrorist groups with extreme prejudice. They have recently stepped up their initiative in Syria and now they are finding themselves being targeted by groups who don't like seeing Assad win.

Predictably, Turkey is one of those players, because as we've already seen, Turkey has been working with the Western world to support rebels and their associates (aka ISIS) for a very long time in an effort to take down Assad. So now some interesting things are starting to happen. Turkey shot a Russian jet out of the sky and we heard claims (without proof) from the Western media about how Russia blew up some civilian hospitals in Syria. Russia shoots back hard, providing satellite imagery showing that the hospitals they were said to have struck were either undamaged or don't even exist. Red Cross workers in the area also report no such strikes on hospitals.

The lies being told by the Western world have been exposed almost every step of the way but it seems like people refuse to pay attention to the facts. By ignoring the reality of the situation you only help perpetuate it. Let me assure you this thread is not intended to be some sort of Russian propaganda piece, anyone who follows my posts on ATS knows I have no agenda to push here. I'm simply trying to help expose the truth as I understand it. If you disagree with my analysis of the situation that is fine, present a reasonable argument and I will consider it. I will leave readers with one last article which was published just last month:


Ankara--- Hakan Fidan, the head of Turkey's National Intelligence Organization, known by the MİT acronym, has drawn a lot of attention and criticism for his controversial comments about ISIS.

Mr. Hakan Fidan, Turkish President's staunchest ally, condemned Russian military intervention in Syria, accusing Moscow of trying to 'smother' Syria's Islamist revolution and serious breach of United Nations law.

“ISIS is a reality and we have to accept that we cannot eradicate a well-organized and popular establishment such as the Islamic State; therefore I urge my western colleagues to revise their mindset about Islamic political currents, put aside their cynical mentalité and thwart Vladimir Putin's plans to crush Syrian Islamist revolutionaries,” Anadolu News Agency quoted Mr. Fidan as saying on Sunday.

Fidan further added that in order to deal with the vast number of foreign Jihadists craving to travel to Syria, it is imperative that ISIS must set up a consulate or at least a political office in Istanbul. He underlined that it is Turkey’s firm belief to provide medical care for all injured people fleeing Russian ruthless airstrikes regardless of their political or religious affiliation.

Turkish intelligence chief: Putin's intervention in Syria is against Islam and international law, ISIS is a reality and we are optimistic about the future


edit on 27/11/2015 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 27 2015 @ 07:54 PM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder

I remember the days of the dictators in the middle east....

things were much simpler then...

sad, but true!



posted on Nov, 27 2015 @ 08:19 PM
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I don't get it.

I'll never get it.

I am forced to accept the fact that those who represent me act like school yard children. The arguments like the kid ran into my fist was so common back than. As I grew up I started to see the immaturity of such behavior only to find that the "best" we have to offer use's these basic bully arguments to win "public support".

I remember the chemical attack on the Christians and I remember the U.S. Preferring to use that context to oust Assad. If it wasn't for Putin and his staunch resistance to the obvious false flag, just about every American would have taken the accusation of Assad gazing his own people as truth.

What is most sad about the entire thing, is apparently catching the west in a lie was good enough. And those who were gassed have been long forgotten. Not me. I know those chemicals weapons entered the hands of the terrorists by way of the west, likely through Turkey but financed and supplied by the good old U.S. Of A. My nation, who represents me.

Do those actions appear to represent me? Yeah, I thought not. So what happened to those Christians? Buried I'm sure. Used as a catalyst for u.S. Aggression and likely funneled into Syria by way of Behngazi.

The world is a joke. It doesn't have to be but it is. I really wish my nation wasn't such a #.

The word the censored there at the very end. Imagine the most grotesque insult, multiply that by 1000 and that is just the basic understanding of my disappointment for my own country. Man does it suck to be on the side of godlessness.
edit on 27-11-2015 by Rosinitiate because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 27 2015 @ 08:44 PM
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a reply to: Rosinitiate


I am forced to accept the fact that those who represent me act like school yard children.

Haha I know exactly how you feel. Being represented by people who think they know everything whilst simultaneously knowing nothing infuriates me to no end. Being agnostic myself, I also find it extremely annoying that most political figures are religious, since you pretty much need to believe in God in order to reach a respected position in politics. It feels like I'm being led by religious fanatics or just plain psychopaths who will tell any lie necessary to achieve their goals. But I guess that's life, people being led by people who have no business leading anyone.



posted on Nov, 27 2015 @ 09:02 PM
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Syria was always a battle between the West and Russia. It's not just a proxy war, it's a proxy-proxy war. Firstly we have the Gulf States + Turkey vs Iran using their proxies the FSA (lol), Al-Qaeda, al-Nusra and ISIS vs Assad and Hezbollah. The Gulf States and Iran are fighting over who controls Syria so a pipeline can be ran through the country from the South Pars/North Dome gas field into Europe. Iran favours one route, Qatar has proposed another.

Then we have the West vs Russia using the Gulf States and Iran as their proxies. To understand why you need to understand how Russia dominates the European gas market. Europe wants to wean itself off Russian gas. The US want to cut off this vital revenue from Russia. The West back the Qatar pipeline dubbed the "Arab Pipeline" that goes from Qatar, through Saudi Arabia, Jordan, SYRIA and then into Europe via Turkey.

Russia wants to control Iran's proposed pipeline that goes through Iran, Iraq, SYRIA and by-passes Turkey completely.

READ: Pipeline Politics

There are other regional politics at work but the pipelines are fueling the war.



posted on Nov, 27 2015 @ 11:17 PM
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a reply to: Logman


There are other regional politics at work but the pipelines are fueling the war.

I don't know it seems to me like there must be a bit more to it than just pipelines. I don't even think pipelines could be the main issue because if you listen to comments made by general General Wesley Clark and other whistle blowers, it seems like all of these wars have been in the making for a very long time. It's probably a mix of money and religious beliefs in my opinion. Oil and pipelines isn't the only thing to worry about money-wise. By creating all these enemies in the ME we have created a very strong war economy and weapons manufacturers are probably loving it. After all there's no point in having an army if there are no conflicts to fight in.
edit on 27/11/2015 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 27 2015 @ 11:32 PM
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originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
a reply to: Logman


There are other regional politics at work but the pipelines are fueling the war.

I don't know it seems to me like there must be a bit more to it that just pipelines. I don't even think pipelines could be the main issue because if you listen to comments made by general General Wesley Clark and other whistle blowers, it seems like all of these wars have been in the making for a very long time. It's probably a mix of money and religious beliefs in my opinion. Oil and pipelines isn't the only thing to worry about money-wise. By creating all these enemies in the ME we have created a very strong war economy and weapons manufacturers are probably loving it. After all there's no point in having an army if there are no conflicts to fight in.





Correct me if I am wrong but the US of A is the biggest arms dealer on the planet are they not ?

Anyhow good thread and perspective



posted on Nov, 28 2015 @ 12:32 AM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Bingo! However, you missed out Central Banking cartels. The thing that worries me is when they run out of small countries to conquer, what will be next?




posted on Nov, 28 2015 @ 12:48 AM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder

I have read that it is also that the Sauds want Wahhabi,and Turkey hate the Kurds and wants them wiped out. That is also fueling this.That is a real issue over there,their different sects of Islam all hate each other with a passion.If we would just get our butts out of there,they would pretty much do each other in.

Wahhabi is a scourge on this earth and Islam.It IS extremist! The Saudis will set a new record this year for lopping off people's heads and the year isn't even over yet.And these fools are on the human rights council for the UN now!!!?? Right.



posted on Nov, 28 2015 @ 04:47 AM
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a reply to: Wide-Eyes

They are working on that. The Syrian situation is driving displaced people into Europe. This will weaken Europe, many countries therein now investing heavily in providing refuge to what many believe to be terrorist cells. Once Europe is destabilised, I think the bear will get another poking until the desired war in Europe is established.

Those that want this believe themselves sane. They remember how rich they became via the last major war in Europe they now seek to emulate, aka a reworking of Einstein's insanity quote 'doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result'.
edit on 28/11/2015 by teapot because: format



posted on Nov, 28 2015 @ 04:52 AM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder

The entire situation, isn't very complicated.

The US, along it's allies. Has long opposed everything, that has to do with Communism and the Soviet Union. Merely because it's "communism". Every man on this planet, should ask himself why ... as "communism" is something that is pro-public, any nation like the US that is so obviously anti-communist, should be questioned.

That apart, the US along with it's allies is "going" head on Russia, in Ukraine ... spreading propaganda about Crimea, but failing utterly to mention that IFF Albanians have the right to ANNEX a foreign territory, than this same argument applies to ALL nations. But, it doesn't ... at least if the "breakout" rebels are Russian, then it doesn't apply.

The same applies to the entire middle east. The "secular" nations in the middle, were mostly pro-Soviet. Now, you have to understand this concept, because communism forbids religion. It doesn't ban you from being religious, only bans you from practicing religion in a church or in a grouped manner, that may be understood as politics.

Now, this means ... that ALL anti-communism factions, are RADICAL RELIGIONS. Now, look at American senators that speak out against Russia ... FANATIC CHRISTIANS, or FANATIC JEWS. And whom are the supporting in the middle east, FANATIC MUSLIMS. Why? Because by doing that, they break the ties with Russia ... their ideology is to isolate Russia, and ultimately attack Russia.

That's their goal. period.

Europe, can be grouped into three different groups. Radical Religious ... these are Jews, Christians and Islam alike. Brainwashed morons, and those who fear the ultimate war. Europe, more than any other region in the world ... is tired of war, and war torn. The US has bombarded it with pro-US, anti-Russia propaganda for over 70 years now. You have almost two generations, of brainwashed individuals in Europe, that have almost zero ability for criticize. The very fact, that neither Russia or China has ever used Nuclear weapons, is besides the point. And that the US is the only nation to use Nuclear weapons, on Nagasaki and Hiroshima. And that they have used both Chemical and Biological weapons, post WWII ... as the only western nation to do so, does not even register. That furthermore, the US is on-going, poisoning places with radioactive material ... as in depleted uranium, and even with radioactive material that suggest even more than merely depleted uranium, does not register either. The brainwashed anti-Russia, anti-China sentiment is so deeply rooted in the populace, that nothing registers.

Europe's love for the US of A, can only be explained as the "Stockholm syndrome".

Now, you need to look at the middle-east. It's a territory, that is rich of oil and gas. Now, we don't need to think further, of why the US and Israel are interested in the middle-east. Israel is no "promised land" in any sense of that word. It's a hostile land, and only an idiot would allow himself to be "lured" into moving from rich areas into this area of natural and human hostility.

It doesn't need to be said, that the only thing that lures ... is power and money. Religion, is merely a ruse ... on all sides of the equation.

And this brings us to the war and refugees.

Syria, a port for oil and gas. Turkey, the wannabe gateway for oil and gas to Europe. It has acted as a gateway for Muslims to Europe, ever since before the world wars. During it's "Ottoman" empire, and before that time ... it was "slave" hunting in Europe, with the good grace of the Germans. So, Turkey's actions is nothing new ... nor is the fact, that European nations are aligned with Turkey, any surprise either. Power and Money, has always lured the rich to betray the population of Europe ... and Europeans have never be smart enough to understand it. In history, power and money was silk, diamond, opals and gold. Today, it's still is ... but oil, is also this part.

Now, power is a huge factor. How to control the wealth ... this is where the US/UK/NATO and Russia come in.

If we were really smart, here in Europe ... we'd "lock" out the US and Turkey. We'd further our use of Hydrogene, just like what the Germans wanted and become totally independent.

However, if you are a merchant ... look at the danger in the fact, that entire nations become independent. You will no longer make millions, from funneling goods and services. This, is what the Royals of the world are today. These robber Barons of yesterday ... are playing the same game. Stealing your entire crop, so they can sell it at outrageous prices to whomever they chose. This is Wall Street ... but if Wall Streets wants to be able to "control" the flow, it must also have the military power to enforce it.

And so, we are going back towards the middle ages ... what better way, to control the people ... then through religion? What better way, to control Europe ... then through division, fear and religion. What better way, to control the oil than to disperse the rubble ... and balkan-ize the middle east. They'll still need oil to heat up their houses, and drive their cars ... but without the ability, to change their own destiny.

This is what is going on.



posted on Nov, 28 2015 @ 06:03 PM
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a reply to: bjarneorn


The US, along it's allies. Has long opposed everything, that has to do with Communism and the Soviet Union. Merely because it's "communism". Every man on this planet, should ask himself why ... as "communism" is something that is pro-public, any nation like the US that is so obviously anti-communist, should be questioned.

This just seems like a completely outdated argument to me. Communism is in fact something that should be avoided in my opinion, and I'm not going to get into some huge about about capitalism vs communism. As a libertarian I strongly believe in individual liberty and I simply think free market capitalism is vastly superior to communism and provides a higher standard of living at the end of the day. The US only became so powerful in the first place because it was founded by people who had a deep respect for individual liberty, so they have every reason in the world to oppose communism and stick with the philosophies their nation was founded on. Some might say the US is going downhill now because it's becoming more and more socialist every day, turning into a huge nanny state just like every other westernized nation on Earth.



posted on Feb, 27 2016 @ 03:43 AM
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COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY
IN THE CITY OF NEW YORK

INSTITUTE FOR THE STUDY OF HUMAN RIGHTS

Research Paper: ISIS-Turkey Links

By David L. Phillips

Introduction




Is Turkey collaborating with the Islamic State (ISIS)? Allegations range from military cooperation and weapons transfers to logistical support, financial assistance, and the provision of medical services. It is also alleged that Turkey turned a blind eye to ISIS attacks against Kobani.

President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu strongly deny complicity with ISIS. Erdogan visited the Council on Foreign Relations on September 22, 2014. He criticized "smear campaigns [and] attempts to distort perception about us." Erdogan decried, "A systematic attack on Turkey's international reputation, "complaining that "Turkey has been subject to very unjust and ill-intentioned news items from media organizations." Erdogan posited: "My request from our friends in the United States is to make your assessment about Turkey by basing your information on objective sources."

Columbia University's Program on Peace-building and Rights assigned a team of researchers in the United States, Europe, and Turkey to examine Turkish and international media, assessing the credibility of allegations. This report draws on a variety of international sources -- The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Guardian, The Daily Mail, BBC, Sky News, as well as Turkish sources, CNN Turk, Hurriyet Daily News, Taraf, Cumhuriyet, and Radikal among others.


Research Paper : ISIS - Turkey list



posted on Mar, 7 2016 @ 01:26 AM
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a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

Interesting find, and thanks for bumping this thread.



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