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Turkey won't apologize for downing Russian warplane, Erdogan says

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posted on Nov, 26 2015 @ 08:44 PM
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originally posted by: sparky31
i say go turkey,there has been so many news storys recently about russia invading british air space and having to be escorted out,only other day there was story about a russian sub being spotted and it getting hunted down by us and our french friends may i add, cause guess what the UK no longer has any specialist sub-hunting aircraft.

news.sky.com...

as you see in story they also had to intercept planes,what do they expect when they keep thinking they can just do what they like?

turkey grew a pair and said it aint happening,they picked a country who obviously said i aint taking your crap.


In regards to British airspace. You have to realise that you are getting your info from misleading headlines from journalists that haven't a clue what they are talking about.

The Russian bombers are NOT in UK sovereign airspace but simply in a region of international airspace that the UK has responsibility for such as a Flight Information Region or an air defence identification zone. The Russians would have to be inside the UK's 12 nautical mile limit to be actually in UK airspace. Russia does exactly the same with their airspace and intercepts aircraft that fly through their area of responsibility and interest in international airspace.

The UK Ministry of Defence briefs journalists on a regular basis on the difference between sovereign airspace and an area of interest adjoining over international airspace but it just goes in one ear and out the other.

See following showing the areas of interest around the UK. Now remember that the sovereign limit is 12 nautical miles.

www.publications.parliament.uk...

The following should be of help.


Supplementary memorandum from the Ministry of Defence

1a. How many times have Russian military aircraft attempted to enter UK territorial airspace in 2007, 2008 and 2009, without authorisation?

ANSWER

— Nil.
No Russian military aircraft have attempted to enter UK territorial airspace, which extends 12 nautical miles from the UK coastline. Russian military aircraft operate in international airspace and have every right to exercise their defence capabilities.
1b. How many times have Russian military aircraft attempted to enter the UK flight information region in 2007, 2008 and 2009, without authorisation?

ANSWER

— Russian military aircraft entered the UK Flight Information Region on 10 separate days in 2007.
— Russian military aircraft entered the UK Flight Information Region on six separate days in 2008.
— Russian military aircraft entered the UK Flight Information Region on two separate days in 2009 (correct as of 1 May).

The UK Flight Information Region, outside of 12 nautical miles from the UK coastline, remains international airspace but to transit the area aircraft are required to file flight plans, communicate with Air Traffic Control and utilise secondary surveillance radar (SSR), a means for providing information on the air traffic control agency and height. Russian military aircraft do not adhere to these accepted Air Traffic Control requirements. This is against International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) regulations for which Russia is a signatory state and poses a potential flight safety risk. We are taking this issue forward with Department for Transport, who through the Civil Aviation Authority and the National Air Traffic Services contract provide Air Traffic Control services.

The UK Flight Information Region (see map below) contains some of the busiest airspace in Europe including the transatlantic air route structure. Within the UK Flight Information Region, Air Traffic Control operations rely largely on SSR to maintain safe distances between aircraft operating in close proximity. Aircraft not transponding SSR can therefore be invisible to Air Traffic Control operators. Risks to flight safety are mitigated by close liaison between UK Air Defence and Air Traffic Control units. Air Defence units use a combination of primary radar and SSR and are able to detect such aircraft within Air Defence radar coverage. The launch of UK Quick Reaction Alert aircraft to intercept unidentified aircraft also mitigates the flight safety risk.


www.publications.parliament.uk...


47. The UK press have featured stories that imply that Russia's air tactics are a threat to UK security.[76] We sought information from the MoD to clarify the scale and nature of the issue of military incursions into NATO and UK airspace. We were told that during 2007-2009 no Russian aircraft have entered UK airspace—defined as 12 nautical miles from the UK coastline—without authorisation. However, Russian military aircraft have entered the UK Flight Information Region—outside UK territorial airspace—without permission. This is part of international airspace and, as such, Russia is able to exercise its defence capabilities there.


www.publications.parliament.uk...

Unfortunately the media get it all mixed up and the following is reported time and time again.

'Russian nuclear bombers invade UK Airspace'

'Two Russian bombers, capable of carrying nuclear weapons, have been caught flying over British airspace.
The unwelcome guests spent four hours flying over the Isle of Lewis despite being intercepted by two RAF jets.'

news.sky.com...

'RAF reports 20 instances of Russian jets flying over Scotland'

www.globalcrisisnews.com...=1499/

'RAF catches Russian bombers in UK airspace'

www.scotsman.com...

'Russian Bombers' Secret Flights over Scotland'

www.express.co.uk...

All because journalists can't grasp the difference between sovereign airspace and a flight information regions or air defence identification zone that are in international airspace.




posted on Nov, 26 2015 @ 08:58 PM
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He was just following orders. Why should he apologize for following orders? Silly Americans, whom do they think they are fighting?



posted on Nov, 26 2015 @ 09:04 PM
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originally posted by: whyamIhere
Not every Country draws red lines then ignores when they are crossed.

Some people mean what they say.

Isn't Vladimir already getting stretched a little thin.


No not really, their Countries have been in 'good' with each other for years, Turkey gets a lot of Russian Tourists each year, so this is really quite odd i would say.

If a Canadian war plane were to accidentally get too close to the American border, would they just shoot it down and then refuse to apologize because well, Rules are Rules right? Silly Nonsense.



posted on Nov, 26 2015 @ 09:05 PM
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originally posted by: boncho
a reply to: InnerPeace2012


We know for a fact, that Russia is has no plans of reducing it's military operations against ISIS, in fact they are beefing up their air security to destroy any potentially dangerous targets.



www.nytimes.com...

Russia has done dick all against ISIS. Is there a single city Assad forces have reclaimed from air strikes in the last 2 months? Seriously if it was as Putin claims, there should be noticeable difference. But the reality is Russia is helping Assad with his war against his own people.

The reason there are so many refugees is because there are only 3 options in that country, be conscripted by the national army (fight for Assad), be forced to live under or fight for Extremists, or lastly fight in the FSA which is up against insurmountable odds.


Preach that to Obama. Since Russia just joined in the fight against ISIS, straight after the fact that there was a major refugee crises affecting Europe.

Russia did not arm rebels against Assad. The fact remains that US was arming the rebels against the Syrian government, and caused instability in Syria and eventually led to the rise of ISIS. And Turkey? They haven't done squat against ISIS, but buy cheap oil from ISIS.

And now it's the Russians to blame, amidst their jet being shot down and an air men and a marine lost their lives in the process, is just sad.

Oh well, I gather the general premise for the anti-Russian rhetoric is none-other than to blame Russia. Quit unsettling really..

edit on 26-11-2015 by InnerPeace2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 26 2015 @ 09:24 PM
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originally posted by: whyamIhere
Not every Country draws red lines then ignores when they are crossed.

Some people mean what they say.

Isn't Vladimir already getting stretched a little thin.


It's funny you say that:



Turkish fighter jets and military helicopters have dramatically increased their incursions into Greek airspace, according to a study based on data from the Greek military, forcing the cash-strapped Greek air force to respond. On July 15, six Turkish fighters crossed into Greek airspace 20 times.


Turkey intruded into Greece's airspace more than 2000 times in 2014 alone.

I think we are having Turkey for dinner!

I got a feeling that Turkish convoy that was hit was retribution from Vlad, and no doubt there will be more.

Turkey violates Greece's airspace


edit on 26-11-2015 by muSSang because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 26 2015 @ 09:39 PM
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originally posted by: muSSang

Turkey violates Greece's airspace



Maybe the Greeks should just shoot down a Turkish jet, and see how they react, I bet they'd be invading Greece, since their qualms go back centuries...

Crazy Turks..



posted on Nov, 26 2015 @ 09:41 PM
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originally posted by: muSSang

originally posted by: whyamIhere
Not every Country draws red lines then ignores when they are crossed.

Some people mean what they say.

Isn't Vladimir already getting stretched a little thin.


It's funny you say that:



Turkish fighter jets and military helicopters have dramatically increased their incursions into Greek airspace, according to a study based on data from the Greek military, forcing the cash-strapped Greek air force to respond. On July 15, six Turkish fighters crossed into Greek airspace 20 times.


Turkey intruded into Greece's airspace more than 2000 times in 2014 alone.

I think we are having Turkey for dinner!

I got a feeling that Turkish convoy that was hit was retribution from Vlad, and no doubt there will be more.

Turkey violates Greece's airspace



From your source itself : No violation of Greece's airspace.Only the perceived incursion.




Turkey and Greece, he added, recognize each other’s claim to a six nautical mile-wide zone of the Aegean Sea, but Turkey worries that Greece might try to extend that to the full 12 miles permitted under international treaties. This would largely block Turkey from the Aegean. Furthermore, Greece claims 10 miles of air space around the islands, while Turkey recognizes only six miles and argues that its fighters are flying in international air space.



edit on 26-11-2015 by Gothmog because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 26 2015 @ 10:00 PM
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turkey gets almost %60 of their natural gas from Russia, I wonder how much putin is going to raise the price of that gas?
putin isn`t dumb enough to stop selling them natural gas, he`ll just keep raising the price.



posted on Nov, 26 2015 @ 10:06 PM
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originally posted by: Tardacus
turkey gets almost %60 of their natural gas from Russia, I wonder how much putin is going to raise the price of that gas?
putin isn`t dumb enough to stop selling them natural gas, he`ll just keep raising the price.


And I think, that's the reason why they need the cheap oil from ISIS.



posted on Nov, 26 2015 @ 10:39 PM
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originally posted by: Tardacus
turkey gets almost %60 of their natural gas from Russia, I wonder how much putin is going to raise the price of that gas?
putin isn`t dumb enough to stop selling them natural gas, he`ll just keep raising the price.


Same reason why I didn't understand the EU sanctions toward Russia recently over the Ukraine conflict.
Alot of countries our dependant on the Russian gas and also hurting their export towards Russia.



posted on Nov, 26 2015 @ 10:55 PM
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a reply to: InnerPeace2012




Is this guy gone mad or what????

No , and he's right.
Russia has been playing this little game for a while now probing several county's defenses with little incursions into their airspace but this time they got burnt and Vlad don't like it.

Erdogan is right to say they'd do it again as a warning to Russia who likely would do it again.
Don't cower before the bully stand up to him !



posted on Nov, 26 2015 @ 10:59 PM
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a reply to: InnerPeace2012

What does an apology change? It either is, or isn't an act of war. The reactions by Russia should be the same regardless of an apology.
edit on PMAmerica/Chicago591111pm by Aeshma because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 26 2015 @ 11:01 PM
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a reply to: gortex

gortex, I believe we have a major problem at this borders...

News Flash: ‘Commercial scale’ oil smuggling into Turkey becomes priority target of anti-ISIS strikes




Islamic State’s daring and impudent oil smuggling into Turkey should become a high-priority target in order to cripple the terrorist group, President Putin said, backed by French President Francois Hollande. Both agree that the source of terrorist financing must be hit first and foremost.

Commercial-scale oil smuggling from Islamic State controlled territory into Turkey must be stopped, Putin said after meeting Hollande in Moscow.

“Vehicles, carrying oil, lined up in a chain going beyond the horizon,” said Putin, reminding the press that the scale of the issue was discussed at the G20 summit in Antalya earlier this month, where the Russian leader demonstrated reconnaissance footage taken by Russian pilots.

edit on 26-11-2015 by InnerPeace2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 26 2015 @ 11:07 PM
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a reply to: InnerPeace2012

That story is from RT the State broadcaster , it's a narrative the Russian government want's to use in its defense , Turkey shot the jet down because IS.
Sorry but I don't believe it.

edit on 26-11-2015 by gortex because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 26 2015 @ 11:29 PM
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a reply to: gortex

Well, since were not physical there to verify this claims, doesn't stop us from digging deeper and finding the Turkish-Russian economic and political relations and actions taken so far against ISIS in various media sources.

Both western and Russian media can confirm that the Turkish have done squat against ISIS. While there is video evidence showing Russian bombing a line of ISIS oil tankers.

Peace



posted on Nov, 26 2015 @ 11:47 PM
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a reply to: InnerPeace2012

Turkey won't apologize for downing Russian warplane, Erdogan says - why is this bloke spoiling for a fight with Russia?
Most peace loving nations tend to do what they can to avoid ware. This bloke seems to be doing the opposite.

Is he doing on somebody else's behalf perhaps?

From what I read the US has some serious investment in Turkey, in the form of several millit-tree bases including one underground base.

Given, this is the case, if would indicate that this bloke is simply following orders from somebody. He must know damn well what his country would look like at the end of, shall we say, "a full scale non-nuke skirmish."

Why would he risk putting his country at risk of such harm when he must know that he has buckleys chance of winning such an exchange?

He obviously would be relying on some western power come scurrying to his aid. Perhaps he has already been given such an undertaking and perhaps its that which gives him the confidence to spoil for a fight with Russia?



posted on Nov, 27 2015 @ 12:07 AM
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a reply to: Gothmog




From your source itself : No violation of Greece's airspace.Only the perceived incursion.


Plenty of info on the interweb if you search....
Turkey violated Greece's airspace 2000 times in 2014 alone
Another source
Another source
Just in case, here's another one.



Looks like the pot is calling the kettle black again!!

edit on 27-11-2015 by muSSang because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 27 2015 @ 01:36 AM
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originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: muSSang

originally posted by: whyamIhere
Not every Country draws red lines then ignores when they are crossed.

Some people mean what they say.

Isn't Vladimir already getting stretched a little thin.


It's funny you say that:



Turkish fighter jets and military helicopters have dramatically increased their incursions into Greek airspace, according to a study based on data from the Greek military, forcing the cash-strapped Greek air force to respond. On July 15, six Turkish fighters crossed into Greek airspace 20 times.


Turkey intruded into Greece's airspace more than 2000 times in 2014 alone.

I think we are having Turkey for dinner!

I got a feeling that Turkish convoy that was hit was retribution from Vlad, and no doubt there will be more.

Turkey violates Greece's airspace



From your source itself : No violation of Greece's airspace.Only the perceived incursion.




Turkey and Greece, he added, recognize each other’s claim to a six nautical mile-wide zone of the Aegean Sea, but Turkey worries that Greece might try to extend that to the full 12 miles permitted under international treaties. This would largely block Turkey from the Aegean. Furthermore, Greece claims 10 miles of air space around the islands, while Turkey recognizes only six miles and argues that its fighters are flying in international air space.




The turks believe some of the Aegean sea along with some greek islands are theirs. Turks have expansionist intentions. Its no secret, many articles available online.
edit on 27-11-2015 by MegaSpace because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 27 2015 @ 04:11 AM
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originally posted by: MegaSpace

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: muSSang

originally posted by: whyamIhere
Not every Country draws red lines then ignores when they are crossed.

Some people mean what they say.

Isn't Vladimir already getting stretched a little thin.


It's funny you say that:



Turkish fighter jets and military helicopters have dramatically increased their incursions into Greek airspace, according to a study based on data from the Greek military, forcing the cash-strapped Greek air force to respond. On July 15, six Turkish fighters crossed into Greek airspace 20 times.


Turkey intruded into Greece's airspace more than 2000 times in 2014 alone.

I think we are having Turkey for dinner!

I got a feeling that Turkish convoy that was hit was retribution from Vlad, and no doubt there will be more.

Turkey violates Greece's airspace



From your source itself : No violation of Greece's airspace.Only the perceived incursion.




Turkey and Greece, he added, recognize each other’s claim to a six nautical mile-wide zone of the Aegean Sea, but Turkey worries that Greece might try to extend that to the full 12 miles permitted under international treaties. This would largely block Turkey from the Aegean. Furthermore, Greece claims 10 miles of air space around the islands, while Turkey recognizes only six miles and argues that its fighters are flying in international air space.




The turks believe some of the Aegean sea along with some greek islands are theirs. Turks have expansionist intentions. Its no secret, many articles available online.





Turks are the only ones with expantionist intentions , eh ?



posted on Nov, 27 2015 @ 05:30 AM
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originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: MegaSpace

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: muSSang

originally posted by: whyamIhere
Not every Country draws red lines then ignores when they are crossed.

Some people mean what they say.

Isn't Vladimir already getting stretched a little thin.


It's funny you say that:



Turkish fighter jets and military helicopters have dramatically increased their incursions into Greek airspace, according to a study based on data from the Greek military, forcing the cash-strapped Greek air force to respond. On July 15, six Turkish fighters crossed into Greek airspace 20 times.


Turkey intruded into Greece's airspace more than 2000 times in 2014 alone.

I think we are having Turkey for dinner!

I got a feeling that Turkish convoy that was hit was retribution from Vlad, and no doubt there will be more.

Turkey violates Greece's airspace



From your source itself : No violation of Greece's airspace.Only the perceived incursion.




Turkey and Greece, he added, recognize each other’s claim to a six nautical mile-wide zone of the Aegean Sea, but Turkey worries that Greece might try to extend that to the full 12 miles permitted under international treaties. This would largely block Turkey from the Aegean. Furthermore, Greece claims 10 miles of air space around the islands, while Turkey recognizes only six miles and argues that its fighters are flying in international air space.




The turks believe some of the Aegean sea along with some greek islands are theirs. Turks have expansionist intentions. Its no secret, many articles available online.





Turks are the only ones with expantionist intentions , eh ?




Well most nations dont use propaganda to claim them, they just grab it. turks & fyrom on other hand want not just Greek lands but the history that goes with it, oh albania too. This was turkey's doing first began in 70's idea was to surround greece with enemies from albania, fyrom & balgaria. Turkey was behind it all, dont have prove just as i dont have proof that the refugees are being purposfully send by turks to Greece & europes to undermine everyones borders. Spread of islam. Im old enough to be well informed from many many years ago. Anceint wisdom

edit on 27-11-2015 by MegaSpace because: (no reason given)




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