Audio of Turkish 10 warnings to Russian jet

originally posted by: tanka418

Well here is where I'm going to "wax" all scientific on ya son...

I can prove the 11 seconds, you can not prove the loss of a single life due to that mission! So...your statement is kind of empty! Plus, even IF there was the loss of life due to that mission; not a single one would have been in Turkey.

And, NO I do not condone the loss or taking of life under any circumstance.

Perhaps yall should actually think this through! Do we want to allow something like Turkey to plunge us into world war 3? Or do we want to be a little bit more moderate and avoid the bombs...

Here's a prediction; "Turkey will escalate the tensions between them and Russia. A war will start. Turkey will be thrown to the Wolves."

If Ukraine government asks Turks for a military aid and Turks start exclusive bombing of ethnic Russians in Ukraine then Moscow also have every right to shoot ANY plane too .
Moscow can't have his cake and eat it . Which is what you are suggesting that should happen.

That pilot was not killing ISIS members but murdering innocent Turkmen civilians . You really need to accept that little fact .

Let's think this thru like you suggest , shall we ?

Russia has violated NATO airspace over 100 times since 2014 . Are you suggesting that NATO can't defend it's airspace ? Or that when it comes to Turks , NATO makes an exception and doesn't want to defend Turks against Russians ?

As for the ww3 aspect ; Russians ain't stupid and they know very well that any escalation will only make things worse . There won't be any overt war between Russia & Turks .

originally posted by: 23432

That pilot was not killing ISIS members but murdering innocent Turkmen civilians . You really need to accept that little fact .

As I have already requested; proof! IF you can not provide said evidence, you will have to drop that insipid line.

Let's think this thru like you suggest , shall we ?

Yea would be nice IF you could manage that!

Russia has violated NATO airspace over 100 times since 2014 . Are you suggesting that NATO can't defend it's airspace ? Or that when it comes to Turks , NATO makes an exception and doesn't want to defend Turks against Russians ?

As for the ww3 aspect ; Russians ain't stupid and they know very well that any escalation will only make things worse . There won't be any overt war between Russia & Turks .

WOW!!! Over a hundred times last year!

What about the thousands of times in both 2014 and 2015 where Turkish aircraft have violated Syrian airspace? If memory serves that would be 1000+ incursions in 2014, and over 2000 in 2015.

No Russia isn't stupid, but I fear Turkey IS, and Turkey is already trying to start said WW3.

How about we compare the contexts that these incursions occurred? 'd be willing to bet that ALL of the Turkish incursions occurred as a direct military strike n Syria. While the Russian incursions occurred as a result of military actions in Syria.

Do you see the glaring difference? Prolly not! You see Turkey violates Syria in order to damage Syria...Russia violates Turkey, intending no harm to Turkey, and causes no harm to Turkey.

Russia takes a rather hard view of the people on the ground; they are all insurgents. And, logically, even by your own admission, they are!

Rebels are insurgents
ISIS are insurgents...

originally posted by: tanka418

originally posted by: yuppa
the russians were forewarned a few times before this shoot down.
maybe they will think this time and be more careful.

Did you know that the Russian plane was on course to the Turkey border for at most 90 seconds? Or that the Russian was 5 miles fro his exit point when he was hit...very much inside Syria.

And no, it won't make the Russians "think" next time...they have already deployed S-400 surface to air missile systems...there is also a guided missile ship near by...if Turkey tries that again they will loose aircraft too, and the whole mess will escalate.

The missile was fired in TURKISH airspace. WHich makes it legal. Sorry it just is. Also IF the russians try to use a S-400 that hits a aircraf tin turkish airspace that does not cross into syria first Russia will have given the ammunition needed for a article 5. They arent that stupid are they? Funny thing about the S-400. if you drop below 100 ft it wont track. easy enough to do in a desert im sure.

a reply to: mikkelno

"This is the Turkish airforce, you are aproaching Turkish airspace. Change heading south immediately"

Sorry Turkey, that does not mean your in Turkish air space so GO POUND SAND!!! Turkey pushed its southern border south by FIVE miles all on its own to give ISIS a safe place to not be bombed by Syria. Not one nation recognizes this border change so good luck Turkey, Putin is encircling you for a beat down and that is why the Turkish president is just now acting so sorry that he ordered the shoot down of the Russian bomber. His piss poor excuse that he did not know it was Russian is a load of crap.

Putin is gonna get pay back so Turkey better keep their planes out of the area.

originally posted by: yuppa
The missile was fired in TURKISH airspace. WHich makes it legal. Sorry it just is.

No one is arguing the legality of this...Turkey was completely within their rights to shoot the Russian down. What's be argued is the intelligence of the Turkish pilot and government for executing the act.

It was unnecessary, and counter to the fight against ISIS...further, it shows support for ISIS by the Turkish government.

In other words; Turkey was not protecting Turkey in this instance...they were protecting ISIS.

Also IF the russians try to use a S-400 that hits a aircraf tin turkish airspace that does not cross into syria first Russia will have given the ammunition needed for a article 5. They arent that stupid are they? Funny thing about the S-400. if you drop below 100 ft it wont track. easy enough to do in a desert im sure.

Funny thing about the S-400; minimum detecting altitude is stated at 0.010km...that's about 32 feet.

a reply to: yuppa

article 5

LOL, that does not apply when a NATO nation attacks first. What nations or group of nations do you think are going to start a war with Russia over a plane being shot down??

Article 5 is to help other NATO nations in-case they are INVADED by Russia or anyone else. Turkey was only let in to NATO so they could put ICBMS on the Soviet southern border.

Since Erdogan has taken over Turkey, they have gone radical Islamic and screwed over NATO and the U.S. at every turn. They screwed us on Iraq by not letting the 4th Infantry division move through their country to attack Iraq from the North wasting a lot of time and causing a lot more troops to be injured or killed in Iraq. They constantly do not let our own planes fly out of Turkey to attack somebody when we need to so I do not know why we even bother to keep them there and do not tell Turkey to shove it? I think if Trump wins that will be the first thing he does.

Only the U.S. was allowed to use Article 5 for 9/11 because at that time they needed more air cover for the states because so many Fighters and forces were sent over to the Middle east it was leaving the states vulnerable. The other nations that wanted to go to A-stan did out of solidarity and to test their new weapons. When the fight got real most of them pulled out. Plus most of them found out that it was an inside job.

originally posted by: Patriotsrevenge
a reply to: yuppa



LOL, that does not apply when a NATO nation attacks first. What nations or group of nations do you think are going to start a war with Russia over a plane being shot down??

Not NATO! Turkey will be thrown to the Wolves if Turkey continues, and Turkey will continue.

Turkey feels some warped, unjustified, need to support ISIS, and Russia is disrupting their operations. The Turks appear ready to destroy themselves in this crusade.

originally posted by: tanka418

originally posted by: yuppa
The missile was fired in TURKISH airspace. WHich makes it legal. Sorry it just is.

No one is arguing the legality of this...Turkey was completely within their rights to shoot the Russian down. What's be argued is the intelligence of the Turkish pilot and government for executing the act.

It was unnecessary, and counter to the fight against ISIS...further, it shows support for ISIS by the Turkish government.

In other words; Turkey was not protecting Turkey in this instance...they were protecting ISIS.

Also IF the russians try to use a S-400 that hits a aircraf tin turkish airspace that does not cross into syria first Russia will have given the ammunition needed for a article 5. They arent that stupid are they? Funny thing about the S-400. if you drop below 100 ft it wont track. easy enough to do in a desert im sure.

Funny thing about the S-400; minimum detecting altitude is stated at 0.010km...that's about 32 feet.

Going back to the data. 32 ft is correct for the S-400. i was confusing it with the S-300. A f-16 i believe can fly "NOTE" and in emergency fly below 32 ft. terrain masking might help too as it blocks radar returns if they drop alt and start evasion.

a reply to: tanka418

No one is arguing the legality of this...Turkey was completely within their rights to shoot the Russian down. What's be argued is the intelligence of the Turkish pilot and government for executing the act.

WHy is that being argued, Turkey had warned Russia in the beginning of Oct. that it would be responsible for their actions if they crossed the border again.

Turkey Threatens to Shoot Down Russian Planes that Stray from Syria

And what I find most interesting is this...

He added that Russia had assured Turkey that the airspace violation had been a mistake and would not happen again. Turkish military officials in Moscow were told by Russian officials a “navigation error” had led the pilot to leave Syrian airspace, Turkish media reported.

So they assured Turkey and yet it happened again.

I think this shows Russia was pushing it's luck with the Turkish border...

The ambassador was warned that, should another incident like that happen again, “the Russian Federation will be responsible for any undesired incident that may occur,” a clear warning that Russian jets could come under fire next time.

www.thedailybeast.com...

I guess it shows both sides could have done things to keep this from happening, Russia and Turkey need to both chalk this up as a very unfortunate accident, and do their best to keep this from happening again.

Also Russia has said it wouldn't go to war with Turkey because of this...they want to use sanctions against them instead, seems they may have learned something from Ukraine.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: tanka418


WHy is that being argued, Turkey had warned Russia in the beginning of Oct. that it would be responsible for their actions if they crossed the border again.

I question Turkey's intelligence, and motives in this. Mostly because Turkey is not defending Turkey in this instance; they are supporting and defending Syrian insurgents (terrorists). In that little insignificant appendix of Turkey there is little to be found save for the insurgents that are the reason for the hostilities in the first place.

Seriously; it doesn't even make a full 2 miles by 5 miles worth of area (10 sq mi)...it is a bit of dirt that is not worth the life of a man who was not threatening it (or indeed any other part of Turkey)

Turkey jerked it's knee, and murdered a Russian and all the result of Turkey's stupidity and immaturity, and of course the illegal oil flowing form Syria into Turkey...further they risk igniting a war between superpowers...all over empty dirt!

So...that is some of "why" I question Turkey's intelligence.

I guess it shows both sides could have done things to keep this from happening, Russia and Turkey need to both chalk this up as a very unfortunate accident, and do their best to keep this from happening again.

Also Russia has said it wouldn't go to war with Turkey because of this...they want to use sanctions against them instead, seems they may have learned something from Ukraine.

This will remain a point of agreement; the whole thing was purely stupid!

If only this was be the only incident...