Audio of Turkish 10 warnings to Russian jet

originally posted by: purplemer

You are defending a coalition that over the last decade of so has systemically toppled several middle eastern leader. Has illegally occupied middle eastern countries in direct violation of international law and killed over a million civilians in the Iraq war (the lancet report)

Are we going to compare west vs russia in atrocities ? If yes , Russians are killers in their own right . They will decimate smaller nations without hesitation.
I might not always agree with Nato but I am aware that it provides the security blanket under which I sleep . I have already lost one homeland ( Caucasia ) to Slavs ; trust me I know what Russians can do .
If your point is that the West is worse then Russia anyday ; I would respectfully recommend that you research a bit more .

You have been lied to about Syria. Just as you where lied to about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and Bin Laden in Afghanistan.

380.000 Syrians have been killed under Asad and Ba'ath party regime . Before the civil war Syria was a hell hole for anyone who didn't toe the line .
Asad and his father are not supported by majority Syrians and that's the truth , really .

I see you've claimed that Turks work with ISIS ; that claim shows who has really swallowed propaganda . Turkey is a Nato country with Roman Law Jurisdiction . If there ever was any type of government support for ISIS , that government would be voted out of office by the electorate .
Despite what you believe about the Turks ; there is no support for ISIS in Turkey . A quick trip out to Istanbul would tell you the same thing .
istanbul parties on 24/7 and ISIS is a declared enemy of Turkish government .

Russia has been invited into Syria we have not. They did more damage to ISIS in a few days than the US done in two years. That really speaks volumes.
Invite of a dictator who had inhereted his presidency from his father .

His father had basically has been killing opposition in Syria for all his life .
Russia is not fighting ISIS ; it's busy pounding Asad's other enemies .

We have no business, training and funding terrorism abroad. If it was not for these actions we would not be seeing floods of refuges crossing borders.

On the contrary , the economic model we follow dictates exactly what we do . All our business is about creating controversy where there is none .

originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: 23432

Dropping bombs on kids & women is more barbaric act then shooting the parachuting pilot who freshly murdered innocent kids & women

You are defending a coalition that over the last decade of so has systemically toppled several middle eastern leader. Has illegally occupied middle eastern countries in direct violation of international law and killed over a million civilians in the Iraq war (the lancet report)

You have been lied to about Syria. Just as you where lied to about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and Bin Laden in Afghanistan.


Russia has been invited into Syria we have not. They did more damage to ISIS in a few days than the US done in two years. That really speaks volumes.

We have no business, training and funding terrorism abroad. If it was not for these actions we would not be seeing floods of refuges crossing borders.

The Lancet report was DEBUNKED because of the way it was done. Some of the people were counted multiple times. th e actualnumbers quite lower than 1 million dead civilians. try 390,000 from BOTH SIDES Most of those are from terrorist hiding in civilian crowds,IED,s and attacks on civies by the terrorist a s a way to punish them for allowing the coalition to be there.

a reply to: yuppa

The Lancet report was DEBUNKED because of the way it was done.

Hi there i dont think it has been debunked it plays within interests of certain nations to play down the civilian causulities of wars

Understand that is was the only peer reviewed scientific study done on the occupation. Yes other reports where done all with vested interests.

No it has not been scientifically debunked. The lancet is a prestigious scientific journal and has been around a long time.

originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: yuppa

The Lancet report was DEBUNKED because of the way it was done.

Hi there i dont think it has been debunked it plays within interests of certain nations to play down the civilian causulities of wars

Understand that is was the only peer reviewed scientific study done on the occupation. Yes other reports where done all with vested interests.

No it has not been scientifically debunked. The lancet is a prestigious scientific journal and has been around a long time.

And who praytell owns it? Leftist interest. Just because something has been peer reviwed does not make it factually accurate. I believ the CORONER in IRAQ over them. Thats where the numbers came from I got. they counted actual toe tags. You state that the count is being supressed but it isnt its being INFLATED. Many reports on it (also peer reviwed) dispute the claim. I believe the many over the few in this instance.

a reply to: yuppa

thank you for your reply

Have a look at the scientist that wrote it. They are well known, experienced in the feild and have done a lot of other work.

If you would prefer to believe the government report then so be it. Im happy with science..

a reply to: purplemer

welcome. I believe th e coroners death toll over them all to be honest. If you need to know a death toll ask th e guy who does the burials.

a reply to: yuppa

Looking at a coroners records is one of many methods used to calculate the total death toll. How is the coroners going to know about those that died outside the hospitals and dont make it there, those that disappeared into prisons that never came out, those that died from lack of medication. How is the coroners going to know how many died from the lack of electricity etc.

That is why you use science... its not perfect but its the best we have

:-)

The deaths you cant count scientifically are not to be counted in all honesty. the ones who went into prisons not counted as due to war killing them. lack of medicines...nope not due to war either. lack of electricity is rampant over there so once again not a huge factor either. The coroners actually th e most scientific way to do the estimates not phone polls with people who have agendas.

why are you nincompoops arguing dumb #? turks killed a guy with a life and a family for a minor airspace violation. nothing else matters. its unacceptable.

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
why are you nincompoops arguing dumb #? turks killed a guy with a life and a family for a minor airspace violation. nothing else matters. its unacceptable.

Moron should had paid attention to his surroundings. Darwin award nominee right there.

a reply to: yuppa

ohh you must be a pilot? sure you have some experience piloting aircraft and/or navigating terrain.

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
why are you nincompoops arguing dumb #? turks killed a guy with a life and a family for a minor airspace violation. nothing else matters. its unacceptable.

Moron should had paid attention to his surroundings. Darwin award nominee right there.

Appears you have little understanding of what actually happened!

That "moron's" crime was the violation of Turkish airspace for less than 11 seconds...that should NOT have cost him his life. The manner in which the Turkish pilot shot him down was equally as wrong; with all the desperation, the lies, and over-reaction, the Turks have made a serious mess of this.

originally posted by: tanka418

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
why are you nincompoops arguing dumb #? turks killed a guy with a life and a family for a minor airspace violation. nothing else matters. its unacceptable.

Moron should had paid attention to his surroundings. Darwin award nominee right there.

Appears you have little understanding of what actually happened!

That "moron's" crime was the violation of Turkish airspace for less than 11 seconds...that should NOT have cost him his life. The manner in which the Turkish pilot shot him down was equally as wrong; with all the desperation, the lies, and over-reaction, the Turks have made a serious mess of this.

11 seconds didn't cost his life ; it was the innocent kids he was killing that ended up costing his life.

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: tanka418

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
why are you nincompoops arguing dumb #? turks killed a guy with a life and a family for a minor airspace violation. nothing else matters. its unacceptable.

Moron should had paid attention to his surroundings. Darwin award nominee right there.

Appears you have little understanding of what actually happened!

That "moron's" crime was the violation of Turkish airspace for less than 11 seconds...that should NOT have cost him his life. The manner in which the Turkish pilot shot him down was equally as wrong; with all the desperation, the lies, and over-reaction, the Turks have made a serious mess of this.

11 seconds didn't cost his life ; it was the innocent kids he was killing that ended up costing his life.

Well here is where I'm going to "wax" all scientific on ya son...

I can prove the 11 seconds, you can not prove the loss of a single life due to that mission! So...your statement is kind of empty! Plus, even IF there was the loss of life due to that mission; not a single one would have been in Turkey.

And, NO I do not condone the loss or taking of life under any circumstance.

Perhaps yall should actually think this through! Do we want to allow something like Turkey to plunge us into world war 3? Or do we want to be a little bit more moderate and avoid the bombs...

Here's a prediction; "Turkey will escalate the tensions between them and Russia. A war will start. Turkey will be thrown to the Wolves."

a reply to: tanka418

I can prove the 11 seconds, you can not prove the loss of a single life due to that mission! So...your statement is kind of empty! Plus, even IF there was the loss of life due to that mission; not a single one would have been in Turkey.

And they have spent more than one mission bombing the Turkmen areas...

Syrian Turkmen group says Russian strikes kill over 40 civilians

Areas where ethnic Turkmens live in Homs and Hama came under attack on Wednesday, the Turkey-based Syrian Turkmen Assembly said in a statement. In the village of Telbiseh near Homs alone, 40 civilians, including Turkmens, were killed, it said.

So it only counts if it was just that one airstrike?

As for them being in Turkey...they are ethnic Turks living in Syria, which reminds me of something...

Wasn't Russia's reason for taking over Crimea, and going into the East because they were protecting ethnic Russians there...so why can't Turkey protect ethnic Turks in Syria just as Russia said they were doing in Ukraine?

Perhaps yall should actually think this through! Do we want to allow something like Turkey to plunge us into world war 3? Or do we want to be a little bit more moderate and avoid the bombs...

Wasn't Russia warned about violating Turkish airspace earlier in October when they escorted a Russian military jet that crossed into Turkey and locked on to their F-16's...why would they even think about doing it again, even for less than 20 seconds.

Seems this could have all been avoided had Russia just not crossed the border.

Here's a prediction; "Turkey will escalate the tensions between them and Russia. A war will start. Turkey will be thrown to the Wolves."

Better prediction...It won't happen.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
And they have spent more than one mission bombing the Turkmen areas...Wasn't Russia warned about violating Turkish airspace earlier in October when they escorted a Russian military jet that crossed into Turkey and locked on to their F-16's...why would they even think about doing it again, even for less than 20 seconds.

Indeed! There seems to be rather vast differences there. In this current instance it was rather obvious that the Russian was not after any target in Turkey, and just being a dumbf# and not paying attention. That is; IF his equipment was capable of knowing his position to something less than a mile. The Turkish pilot was "trigger happy" and was waiting for a reason to shoo a Russian...even IF he wouldn't hit the Russian until he was 5 miles away from his exit point.

Seems this could have all been avoided had Russia just not crossed the border.

No argument there. In my opinion; it was sheer idiocy from all parties.

Better prediction...It won't happen.

Do you really think NATO has that much control over Turkey? Turkey will try again to shoot down a Russian plane. Russia will shoot down the Turks when they do...and on it will go!

I'm sorry y'all, I've taken this a bit off topic. Back on topic.

I've done some looking, and some analysis of the sparse data released by Turkey and the West. I can find absolutely no corroborating data that the voice warnings are real in any way.

A time analysis of the radar track released by the west does not show Russian planes on course to cross the Turkish border except for the last 90 seconds. So, perhaps a single warning?

The audio quality on that is so bad that I'm sure that a distortion analysis would show it to be virtually unintelligible, thus invalidating it as a "legal" warning.

Seems that the "warning" story is more an attempt to cover for a hot headed, trigger happy jacka## of a pilot who should be removed from the flight rotation and grounded; not allowed to dishonor his country and its air force any more.

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: yuppa

ohh you must be a pilot? sure you have some experience piloting aircraft and/or navigating terrain.

I know enough that the russian pilot has gotten navigation awards before so he knew exactly where he was. Again th epilot was pushing his luck because they were warned previously before about breaking their airspace. It does not matter for how long either. Its the nations perrogative on wheter a shoot down occurs.

originally posted by: tanka418

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
why are you nincompoops arguing dumb #? turks killed a guy with a life and a family for a minor airspace violation. nothing else matters. its unacceptable.

Moron should had paid attention to his surroundings. Darwin award nominee right there.

Appears you have little understanding of what actually happened!

That "moron's" crime was the violation of Turkish airspace for less than 11 seconds...that should NOT have cost him his life. The manner in which the Turkish pilot shot him down was equally as wrong; with all the desperation, the lies, and over-reaction, the Turks have made a serious mess of this.

Soldiers assume th erisk of death each time they go out. HE knew the risk and his commanders did as well. he was a MORON for not paying attention OR intentionally pushing his luck which makes him just as stupid. the turk pilot was in the right according to international law. the russians were forewarned a few times before this shoot down.
maybe they will think this time and be more careful.

originally posted by: yuppa
the russians were forewarned a few times before this shoot down.
maybe they will think this time and be more careful.

Did you know that the Russian plane was on course to the Turkey border for at most 90 seconds? Or that the Russian was 5 miles fro his exit point when he was hit...very much inside Syria.

And no, it won't make the Russians "think" next time...they have already deployed S-400 surface to air missile systems...there is also a guided missile ship near by...if Turkey tries that again they will loose aircraft too, and the whole mess will escalate.