Top U.S. Air Defense Commander: Turkey’s Shootdown of Russian Jet “Had to Be PRE-PLANNED”

a reply to: tanka418

The shoot down was between Russia and Turkey and didnt involve NATO nor the US. You want to dismiss it because you dont ike the facts russia was warned, violated Turkish airspace and was shot down.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: tanka418

The shoot down was between Russia and Turkey and didnt involve NATO nor the US. You want to dismiss it because you dont ike the facts russia was warned, violated Turkish airspace and was shot down.

I find it a bit incredible that you don't get this...

US and Turkey are both members of NATO; thus a treaty exists between the US and Turkey; making them not independent in this context.

And, NO...
I don't like the fact that Russia violated Turkish airspace...shows that Russia isn't capable of providing that kind of support I that "tight" of circumstance...their technology isn't up to it...Russia's problem.

As for the warning; I've yet to see any serious data that confirms Turkey's claim about the warnings...which is "why" I'm looking for something independent.

Personally, I find the Sputnik News story about how the Turks ambushed the Russians much more credible than the Turkey version.

a reply to: tanka418

It wasn't a NATO action and NATO,, nor the US, has any control over Turkish forces. Putin threw a temper tantrum and lashed out at the US because its what they do when Russia is in the wrong. They throw crap against a wall to see what sticks. The US is independent. It wasn't until the US confirmed the warnings were given by Turkey did Russia try to blame the US.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Rosinitiate

Top U.S. Air Defense Commander: Turkey’s Shootdown of Russian Jet “Had to Be PRE-PLANNED”

Actually that is his opinion and in no way means it's the truth.

Turkey had warned Russia two days prior to stop bombing their terrorist (ISIS). Russia hit 400 plus terrorist sites and 100 oil tankers in 24 hours just as a big middle finger to Turkey. Turkey then shot down the Russian bomber, so you decide.

a reply to: tanka418

What nobody understands is that Turkey moved that border south by five miles three years ago as a way to protect its little terrorist. That is why Russia did not violate Turkish airspace and Turkey can go suck the big one!

This is why Turkey has been trying to get a no fly zone through John McCain for years. Syria was bombing their little terror squads. Now Russia is sending them to hell quickly, minus their boy virgins.

a reply to: Patriotsrevenge

Again no they didnt.

originally posted by: Patriotsrevenge
a reply to: tanka418

What nobody understands is that Turkey moved that border south by five miles three years ago as a way to protect its little terrorist. That is why Russia did not violate Turkish airspace and Turkey can go suck the big one!

This is why Turkey has been trying to get a no fly zone through John McCain for years. Syria was bombing their little terror squads. Now Russia is sending them to hell quickly, minus their boy virgins.

Actually, it is rather irrelevant...

All those of us who wish to understand need to observe is current accepted international borders. What individual countries say, is, for the most part, irrelevant.

a reply to: Rosinitiate

McInnerny is no longer an top commander, he is a fear merchant for the arms industry. He is also an idiot:

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: Rosinitiate

McInnerny is no longer an top commander, he is a fear merchant for the arms industry. He is also an idiot:

The problem here DJW001 is that the General has several decades of experience directly with this sort of thing, how about you? Any experience at all?

Yes? No? Limited? Point is, I don't think you are qualified here...

nvm

a reply to: tanka418

I've seen contrails in the sunset all my life. I have also seen solid fuel rockets launched. They move quickly and leave a thin blue smoke trail that dissipates quickly. No missile was spotted on radar. No country took credit for the alleged launch. McI nnerny went with the scariest possible interpretation of what the camera recorded rather than the obvious one. Whether he was stupid, or whether he was intentionally lying, he is not trustworthy.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: tanka418

I've seen contrails in the sunset all my life. I have also seen solid fuel rockets launched. They move quickly and leave a thin blue smoke trail that dissipates quickly. No missile was spotted on radar. No country took credit for the alleged launch. McI nnerny went with the scariest possible interpretation of what the camera recorded rather than the obvious one. Whether he was stupid, or whether he was intentionally lying, he is not trustworthy.

All your life! And that is equal to what? About the General's professional experience?

I ask those sort of questions to help determine the probability of misinterpretation, something we are all capable of; the greater the experience the lower the probability (in a sort of simple sense). I too have seen contrails most of my 68 years, I've seen exhaust from several classes of solid propellant rocket motors...none of that holds a candle to the General...he has both of us on that account.

"No missile on radar" Whos radar? Civilian? t could be there and never be reported, for a variety of reasons. Military? We would never know. And "no country taking credit"? Seriously, when does any country's military notify everyone of a test?

Is the good general trustworthy? I think we will mostly agree there... Was he completely forthcoming in the video? Oh hell no! It's his job not to be, but, because of his experience he is more likely to be correct...however, that by no means means he did not misinterpret or "creatively amplify" what he said.

As for the current claim of the good General; I have to say, "No sir...you are wrong!"

I've done an analysis of this event...here is an overview of the results.

A time slice analysis indicates this was more a "shooting of opportunity". The Turkish pilot saw an opportunity to shot a Russian, turned, "booked" toward the target, and fired at just about the useful range of his missile...it worked.

The Turks lied about the 5 minutes of warnings, though they may have gotten one out. The reality is that the Russians were not threatening a border crossing in the several minutes preceding the violation. Only for about 1 minute did the Russian aircraft threaten the border before crossing.

At that point the Turkish aircraft was about 10 miles out, he launched...it took approximately 40 seconds for the missile to reach the Russian and detonate. The Russian was in Turkish airspace for approximately 11 seconds, and had been in Syrian airspace for nearly 30 seconds when he was hit.

I'm not sure who is right or wrong in this, that, thankfully is on someone else to decide...but my personal view is that Turkey over reacted, was "hot headed", and sort of generally wrong...in this context.

a reply to: tanka418

You can believe him if you want, but he is literally a shill. Do you think Hannity has him on because he is objective?

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: tanka418

It wasn't a NATO action and NATO,, nor the US, has any control over Turkish forces. Putin threw a temper tantrum and lashed out at the US because its what they do when Russia is in the wrong. They throw crap against a wall to see what sticks. The US is independent. It wasn't until the US confirmed the warnings were given by Turkey did Russia try to blame the US.

Blame it on the Gulf of Tonkin, blame it on the Pentagon Papers, blame it on the Pat Tillman story, but there are many of us who do not believe what the Pentagon says. The group is well known for its mendacity.

The Turks set the Russians up for that cheap shot, and I would bet my last dollar that NATO and the Pentagon were at least aware of it before hand. Likely, they put Ergdogan up to it.

a reply to: Salander

The Turks set the Russians up for that cheap shot, and I would bet my last dollar that NATO and the Pentagon were at least aware of it before hand. Likely, they put Ergdogan up to it.

How did the Turks set Russia up? Dangle a bottle of vodka just over the border?

a reply to: Salander

and yet NATO is still not involved, regardless of how many irrelevent examples you try to use.

Russia was told several times to stop violating turkish airspace. They then violated again while attacking non isis forces. No one was set up, regardless of how the kremlin lies about.

How about Russia set up Turkey in order to have an excuse to impose a no fly zone over syria to further boost Assad.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Salander

and yet NATO is still not involved, regardless of how many irrelevent examples you try to use.

Russia was told several times to stop violating turkish airspace. They then violated again while attacking non isis forces. No one was set up, regardless of how the kremlin lies about.

How about Russia set up Turkey in order to have an excuse to impose a no fly zone over syria to further boost Assad.

Turks have been asking for a no fly zone agreement for almost 3 years now . If Russians get to do it then my money is on Russians setting up the Turks angle .
There is however the other story about radar jamming and reverse engineering of Russian technology.

Too early to say perhaps but we will know soon enough.

originally posted by: Salander

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: tanka418

It wasn't a NATO action and NATO,, nor the US, has any control over Turkish forces. Putin threw a temper tantrum and lashed out at the US because its what they do when Russia is in the wrong. They throw crap against a wall to see what sticks. The US is independent. It wasn't until the US confirmed the warnings were given by Turkey did Russia try to blame the US.

Blame it on the Gulf of Tonkin, blame it on the Pentagon Papers, blame it on the Pat Tillman story, but there are many of us who do not believe what the Pentagon says. The group is well known for its mendacity.

The Turks set the Russians up for that cheap shot, and I would bet my last dollar that NATO and the Pentagon were at least aware of it before hand. Likely, they put Ergdogan up to it.

No Russia wasn't set-up for anything...they were just doing what they've been doing all along...fighting ISIS.

However, IF you want to discuss a Turkish pilot "racing" to get into position to shot down a Russian plane in Syrian airspace, well then we have something...

Seriously, it appears that the Turks were on a completely different mission as they lazily spiraled out from their base. Sharply turning and taking a very direct route toward a point that was not yet threatened. But it was a god call on the part of the Turkish pilot...he managed to get just within range for his missile to hit the Russian over Syria. Though it prolly would have been better IF he could have shot down the Russian over Turkey...but alas even at Mach 2.5, a missile can't travel 10 miles in 10 seconds. And at the end of its 40 second flight...the Russian was in Syrian airspace for 30 seconds...that's about 5 miles...

That is what Russia get for trying to shut down illegal oil trade between Turkey and ISIS.

a reply to: 23432

and the posters claiming the electronic warfare angle still have not provided anything to support the claim.