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Downing of Su-24 preplanned provocation -Russia

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posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 06:35 AM
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a reply to: ken10

Unlike putin and pro Russians im more concerned with facts and the truth than popularity. Do you launch personal attacks when you cant refute the facts?

Why not keep it on topic?


Like moscows false narrative about this being preplanned, unless he is referring to all the warnings turkey gave about russia violating its airspace.




posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 06:39 AM
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originally posted by: ken10

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: ken10

Nope i dont get paid for countering Russian propaganda and russian ignorance. Do you resort to personal attacks when your position is called into question?


Its not a personal attack, its just that you have become so obvious, and the lack of stars for your posts show who is the ignorant one....This is not a we Vs Russia campaign, it is the good people of the world against evil.


Low stars might mean people would rather read sensationalised, opinionated BS than actual facts - that's a shame isn't it, but then that's what some forums on ATS are all about.



posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 06:46 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: ken10

Unlike putin and pro Russians im more concerned with facts and the truth than popularity. Do you launch personal attacks when you cant refute the facts?

Why not keep it on topic?


Like moscows false narrative about this being preplanned, unless he is referring to all the warnings turkey gave about russia violating its airspace.


That is not what he is saying. He said a couple allies contacted Russia as soon as the incident occurred and shared inteligence that Turkey set Russia up and have been planning to do this for a while.

Regardless of your or my opinion, that is their opinion. If that is their position than I suspect Turkey can expect a real slap in the face in the coming days. NATO won't do anything about it either because they do not want to get pulled into a greater war.
edit on 25-11-2015 by Rosinitiate because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 06:49 AM
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a reply to: Rosinitiate

I still maintain that is false info russia is putting out for putin to try and save face and to paint turkey as an enemy of russia and nothing more. If they had this info why didnt the alert russia before the incident? Turkey told russia back in October what would happen if russia kept violating its airspace. Russia ignored it.

Russia cant respond militarily and that pisses putin off.

As for your nato comment you might want to research that some more as natos response has been made clear.
edit on 25-11-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-11-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 06:49 AM
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a reply to: ken10

An amount of stars, or lack there of, is not indicative of whether the poster is correct or incorrect. It merely represents that a handful of people have agreed with what they've said. Given the large amount of "pro-Russia at any costs, the West is Evil" crowd, it easy quite easy for them to literally post anything and gather stars for it, while a well thought out and concise argument against it won't always generate as much.

That said, he's gathered far, far more stars than you have and both of you have nothing compared to the amount I have
lol

Anyhoo, the OP....

How can Turkey be accused of pre-planning this when they simply responded to a Russian operation (whether they were in Syrian or Turkish airspace when shot down is by the by, really). They have been warned multiple times by Turkey of this for a while and the Turks did the same for the Syrian Air Force too. It's hardly a shock they protect their airspace and any nation would do the same.

After all, Russia shot down an airliner full of civilians that encroached on their airspace for a short time, so they should bare that in mind.


+2 more 
posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 06:52 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Why does it always have to be "Pro-Russian" or "Pro-West" with you? Can't you see that both are manipulating the populace?

It's like you have this thing against Putin that you are desperate to promote on these boards. But whilst you are doing that you are muddying the waters, forcing minds to pick left or right, black or white.




posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 06:53 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Rosinitiate

I still maintain that is false info russia is putting out for putin to try and save face and to paint turkey as an enemy of russia and nothing more. If they had this info why didnt the alert russia before the incident?

Russia cant respond militarily and that pisses putin off.

As for your nato comment you might want to research that some more as natos response has been made clear.


Let's assume inteligence was shared, dollars to donuts they had this long before this happened. In fact, if this whole story benefits anyone it's Russia. Whatever Turkeys reasoning for shooting down a Russian plane under this context, it's really Russia who benefits.



posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 06:53 AM
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a reply to: stumason

Not to mention Turkey lost an aircraft wen it violated syrian airspace.



posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 06:54 AM
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a reply to: and14263

To be fair, the "pro-Russians" are just as bad - often going so far as to ignore the obvious and disseminating falsehoods, even when called out on them.

Personally, I think X is only interested in the truth, not "pro" anybody. It just so happens that Russia lies out of it's arse so often, it appears to be "anti Russian"



posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 06:54 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Ah yes, they did didn't they! Forgot about that one



posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 06:56 AM
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a reply to: and14263

How would you describe a black and white issue then? People support russia, people dont. When pro russians constantly attack the west they themselves define east verse west, russia verse the us / nato / europe.

Why do you ignore that why complaining when I point it out?

Can we return to the topic so we dont derail the ops thread?



posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 06:57 AM
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Seems I'm the only one On Topic.

I'll just sit in the corner and wait for a real discussion about:

Pre-planned attack by Turkey

Selling human body parts

And maybe even a discussion on the selling of oil.



posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 07:01 AM
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a reply to: Rosinitiate

Turkey told Russia back in october to stiop violating its airspace. The russian ambassador was summoned by the turkish government - twice - to complain about russian violations of its airspace. A russian drone was shot down in turkish airspace. Turkey told the world it would defend its airspace. All that occurred in october.

Russia violated its airspace and ignored warnings. A russian jet was downed as a response. Of by pre planned you are transferring to all the warnings russia ignored then we agree. If you are saying turkey wanted to shoot down a russian military jet just because I dont buy it.


What allies provided the info russia is using?


eta -
can you link to your source on body parts please.
edit on 25-11-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 07:02 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Do you have a special ATS App that alerts you whenever a Russia related thread is made? Seriously lol.
As a previous poster said, why do you always have to blame Putin for everything.

Most of the ATS members here will tell you they don't think Putin is a saint, nor will they tell you they support Russia in every action they take.

But like most nations, when they aren't screwing the world over just sometimes they do something good.I really don't understand how you can tell us with a straight face that shooting an aircraft down for a 17 second airspace breach is justified.

So far you are the only person here who never ever compromises. Black and white. Putin bad end of discussion.

Very tiresome you know, especially on a forum meant to discuss and exchange opinions.



posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 07:02 AM
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originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: Xcathdra

Ah yes, they did didn't they! Forgot about that one


A lot of people did because it doesnt support their one sided narrative.



posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 07:06 AM
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I don't see why Putin has to save face. He wasn't flying the plane. He wasn't working in ground control.

He had nothing to do with it.

If anyone wants to blame somebody take a look at the aircrews and their handlers.

All Putin might have to do is admit somebody on his side made a mistake and they have been removed from active service.

Isn't that what Obama would do ?



posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 07:06 AM
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originally posted by: Belgianbloke
Putin bad end of discussion.


Not the end of discussion by any means and you guys prove that when you respond / counter my position. Whatys interesting is your observation and addressing me while ignoring the poster who attacked me personally because I dont share the view of putin as a god who can do no wrong.

What should I compromise on - specifically?

The false narrative that turkey planned this attack outside of the fact russia kept violating their airspace?



posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 07:07 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Rosinitiate

Of course he is saying that. Putin is all about image and the fact turkey, a nato member, shot down a russian aiorcraft violating its airspace makes putin look foolish. Even more so since he cant respond.

All he has left is the russian propaganda machine to paint an image of turkey that gains him the support of the russian people. Its the same tactic he used in Georgia... and Ukraine... Belarus and now turkey.


Were they not in Syrian airspace when it was shot down? Yes, we know they were in and out of Turkey airspace many times, but, I thought the official word was they were shot down in Syrian airspace.

To me, this looks more and more like Russia was trying to get Turkey to shoot at them. At least from what I have heard.



posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 07:08 AM
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a reply to: bigyin

Name any incident where putin admitted he was wrong. I would say ukraine but according to putin they arent in ukraine.

How about putin attacking anything but isis?

How about violating turkish airspace?
edit on 25-11-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 07:12 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Belgianbloke
Putin bad end of discussion.

... because I dont share the view of putin as a god who can do no wrong....

What should I compromise on - specifically?

The false narrative that turkey planned this attack outside of the fact russia kept violating their airspace?

Funny since all your posts make it out like Putin is the devil himself hehe.
You should compromise on the fact that the Turkey reaction was overkill quite literally. You act like this is normal.
Remember Russia is there to fight Isis.

I also don't believe this attack was premeditated. ( see compromise )
Do I believe the turkey jet fired upon the Russian plane outside Turkey, absolutely.




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