Putin will respond: Russians feel betrayed as Turkey stabs them in the back

a reply to: RalagaNarHallas

Most likely... What else can russia do?

a reply to: Xcathdra

Russia could do lots of crazy things but i think they will keep to the econmic attacks and keep slaughtering the turkmen in syria and keep hitting convoys of "aid"

look we get it you dont like them(and i aint their biggest fan) but to treat it like Russia options are limited is some what foolish so lets just hope thigns de escalate instead of keep getting more intense

if Putin was as bad as every one seems to claim he would be arresting all turkish citizens in russia and deport them or send them to the good old fashoned gulags(not likely at all but its putin so ya never know) erogen may want to employ a food taster with Putin's love for poisoning enemies with radiation

originally posted by: 23432
It is not Erdogan propaganda , it is Turks playing straight . Russian bureocracy knows that Turks had every right to shoot the violating plane down .
That is the LAW .
Russians are not ignorant of LAW .

It's not about law or patriotism or sovereign airspace, that's bull# for us servants. Turks are playing dirty, in fact it seems pretty clear they ended up hitting an invader OUTSIDE their territory. If it wasn't Syria, where everyone can abuse of its sov, Turks did 2 wrongs with a single shot: an invasion and an overreaction. Great move!

Putin is an ex KGB and I am surprised you don't seem to know this little fact .

Putin was in the FSB and has connections with the GRU. I improperly said "he was not" because there are many quotes, but not exactly well sourced, and could have easily been mismatched for another service (like CIA vs DIA).

Erdogan is the most popularly elected Leader around and I live in Istanbul , I know he has the support of half the population at the moment .
An external threat might see his popularity soar even higher.
Winter cold ain't gonna happen because Kurdish resources & Azeri resources ready to be used .

50% of the voters maybe, and given his record on freedom of journalism I wouldn't make his support more than the russian one in Crimea. Of course an external threat is what he was seeking, but since he has just won an election, why is he going to search more consensus? Because he wants a presidential islamic state and to change the constitution he needs both kurds out of the way and 2/3 of the parliament and he is close to succeed. This anyway will close the doors to the EU.

Russia is the bigger loser here , their economy is based on one commodity , oil .
In the long run if you think the Russians are going to be controlling Eastern Med well, you are wrong.

Yes Russia had a big loss nonetheless, in the long therm Turkey just the counterbalance from western pressures and will turned to pieces as soon as the industry isn't going to make up for the losses. If you think the problem is "cold winters" you misunderstood me, I meant to say that this is the last winter before Turkey becomes the new Greece.

In the long run I see both eastern and western big pigs getting along and make peace, and let Turkey and Saudi pay the entire bill of the Syrian war just to remind them who's the white guy.
And where did I say Russia will be controlling Eastern Med? They just need to not get singled out to "win", given historical presence. On the other side now Turkey is vulnerable even inside his country given the pretext worked for deploying s400.
Great move I'd say.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
and yet out of all that the fact remains russia kept violating turkish airspace. They shouldnt do that..

Yeah, "Bad russians! Yolo" is much more credible than "Bad russians! Don't touch our ISIS oil and anti-Assad guys".

a reply to: RalagaNarHallas

I always enjoy it when all you guys come back with "you dont like putin". Like that matters when putins actions are wrong. He has no military options and putin is not dumb enough to attack nato since he wouldnt win.

Economically speaking putim is once again cutting off his nose to spite his face. He has speculated the sanctions would go away if he fights isis. The US and EU already shot that theory down. Putin is killing Russia by alienating the world.

www.washingtonpost.com... 2_story.html few more links

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov says he supports France’s proposal to shut down the Turkish-Syrian border as a way to fight Islamic State fighters in Syria. French President Francois Hollande was in Moscow on Thursday to wrap up a week of international visits in a bid to forge a broad international coalition against the IS. In the wake of Turkey’s shootdown of a Russian warplane over Syria on Tuesday Moscow has lashed out at Ankara, accusing it of buying oil from IS and supporting terrorist groups there.

russia and france want to shut down syrian border crossing and close border(thus trapping turkmen and cutting off aid and supplies)

www.usnews.com... russia and usa on same page and russia is willing to work with the us in fighting isis

Russian President Vladimir Putin says Russia is ready to cooperate with the U.S.-led coalition fighting the Islamic State group. Putin said after talks with French President Francois Hollande that Russia is open to closer cooperation with both France and the U.S.-led coalition on selecting IS targets. At the same time, he lashed out at the U.S. over the downing of a Russian warplane by Turkey, saying the U.S. should have prevented its coalition ally Turkey from making such a move. He said that Russia will hold "serious consultations" with the U.S. over the incident.

so hopeully with two super powers on the same page isis gets the pounding it deserves between usa russia iran kurds etc the list of the enemies of isis grow daily

www.jamestown.org...[tt_news]=41694&tx_ttnews[backPid]=48&cHash=208cc0050738c8134d7e351ae2cedf7e#.VloaHr9hkQ0 link on the plight of ethnic turks that live in russia which i guess were having problems with each other before the shoot down and mostly for background on one of russias many ethnic minorities that have not always faired so well

www.wsj.com... from WSJ covers the econmic aspect of the spat

originally posted by: RalagaNarHallas
a reply to: Xcathdra

look we get it you dont like them(and i aint their biggest fan) but to treat it like Russia options are limited is some what foolish so lets just hope thigns de escalate instead of keep getting more intense

I have for once to agree with him, Russia couldn't do much more than sanctions or they would basically "waste" (mediatically) the incident.

if Putin was as bad as every one seems to claim he would be arresting all turkish citizens in russia and deport them or send them to the good old fashoned gulags(not likely at all but its putin so ya never know) erogen may want to employ a food taster with Putin's love for poisoning enemies with radiation

Putin is bad, there are no goods in this story. Anyway they are going to fire 90k turks in 2016, so it's not gulags but...

originally posted by: Mastronaut

originally posted by: Xcathdra
and yet out of all that the fact remains russia kept violating turkish airspace. They shouldnt do that..

Yeah, "Bad russians! Yolo" is much more credible than "Bad russians! Don't touch our ISIS oil and anti-Assad guys".

Are you able to think independantly of Russian talking points.

If Russia was so good why are they still sanctioned? Why havent any governments sided with them? Even China is quiet...

So yes Putin is a tool thats destroying Russia that sold out to China in desperation.

a reply to: Mastronaut

yeah its kind of a case of two dbags having a pissing contest but on the nation state level ,one is known for elminating opponents and the other has "shady ties" allegedly. if we didnt all need to be getting along to wipe out isis it would be funny


tass.ru... russian source saying a possible break through in lifting sanctions on russia if they play nice in ukraine

www.cnbc.com... cnbc link saying not likely that sanctions from europe will be lifted

a reply to: RalagaNarHallas

Im surprised at the russian reversal on working with the US. Even more so since russia has accused the us of not hitting isis hard enough while touting their "successes" against "isis".

a reply to: Xcathdra

aint that the truth! with how things work the russias will keep bombing our rebels and then we will bomb isis ,the best thing of this is at least if usa and russia are in full cooperation we probably wont have any more "misunderstandings" with borders or at least one can hope

originally posted by: Xcathdra
Are you able to think independantly of Russian talking points.

If Russia was so good why are they still sanctioned? Why havent any governments sided with them? Even China is quiet...

So yes Putin is a tool thats destroying Russia that sold out to China in desperation.

Russia is bad, not being the worst doesn't mean being good. Sanctions don't depend on being good, but being ok to the US and Russia is not.
Why aren't government siding with them? Well maybe they don't want a VW scandal or a regime change or an ISIS style false flag or a drought or a flood or a sandstorm or whatever else is allegedly doing the US behind public eyes.
Governments in the west are ok for atrocities as long as they can exploit what they want when they want it, it's not a matter of not siding with Russia cause they are sub-par.

a reply to: Mastronaut

or maybe because russia is in the wrong.

a reply to: RalagaNarHallas

if Putin was as bad as every one seems to claim he would be arresting all turkish citizens in russia and deport them or send them to the good old fashoned gulags(not likely at all but its putin so ya never know) erogen may want to employ a food taster with Putin's love for poisoning enemies with radiation

That wouldn't be good for Putin and his approval rate, also if he did that to every country he played war in there wouldn't be enough room for the real Russian criminals.

He has seen that sanctions can do a good job of hurting an economy...alot easier than having dead soldiers returning from battle.

originally posted by: Mastronaut


It's not about law or patriotism or sovereign airspace, that's bull# for us servants. Turks are playing dirty, in fact it seems pretty clear they ended up hitting an invader OUTSIDE their territory. If it wasn't Syria, where everyone can abuse of its sov, Turks did 2 wrongs with a single shot: an invasion and an overreaction. Great move!

So no violation of Russians occurred ? Is that what the narrative says to you too ?
The LAW reqirements for such an action to shoot a plane have all been met . Lawfull & Legally , there is absolutely nothing that the Russians can do to seek remedy for their loss .
That fact should tell you something.
Courts won't take a case if Russia goes to court . Court will say you have been warned fairly & squarely .

At G20 meeting in Antalya about 10 days ago there was a little exchange between Putin & Erdogan ;

Erdogan - Your planes are violating our borders .

Putin - You must treat them as guest .

Erdogan - Guests needs invitation in our culture .




Putin was in the FSB and has connections with the GRU. I improperly said "he was not" because there are many quotes, but not exactly well sourced, and could have easily been mismatched for another service (like CIA vs DIA).

I am old enough to understand the deep state security organ of Russia . KGB or FSB , same thing with a different name on it .
Putin is an ex-intelligence officer and most probably killed other humans by his own hands .


50% of the voters maybe, and given his record on freedom of journalism I wouldn't make his support more than the russian one in Crimea. Of course an external threat is what he was seeking, but since he has just won an election, why is he going to search more consensus? Because he wants a presidential islamic state and to change the constitution he needs both kurds out of the way and 2/3 of the parliament and he is close to succeed. This anyway will close the doors to the EU.

Crimea is a Turkish name , the peninsula have had a large Turks of Ahiska and stalin genocided them .
Ukraine probably will call for a Turkish military assistance soon enough . Putin wants to revive the Russian Tsardome and he wants to be the first Tsar .
Turks should not be a region of EU with the current model of EU . So Erdogan is doing what is right for his country .

Out of all 57 Sunni muslims countries , Erdogan has the support of 52 in the UN.
The fact is that the Turks are waking up and standing up to be counted once more .

No one is really happy about that but America .



Yes Russia had a big loss nonetheless, in the long therm Turkey just the counterbalance from western pressures and will turned to pieces as soon as the industry isn't going to make up for the losses. If you think the problem is "cold winters" you misunderstood me, I meant to say that this is the last winter before Turkey becomes the new Greece.

Turkish treasury has access to enough amount of dollars so it can avoid any recession or a crisis. An unintended consequence of war of terror i.e war on muslim businessmen .
Highly unlikely that the Turks will be the new Greece .


In the long run I see both eastern and western big pigs getting along and make peace, and let Turkey and Saudi pay the entire bill of the Syrian war just to remind them who's the white guy.


I don't see it that way . Turks are not playing ball with big pigs anymore . Turks are playin their own game in their own back garden .


And where did I say Russia will be controlling Eastern Med? They just need to not get singled out to "win", given historical presence. On the other side now Turkey is vulnerable even inside his country given the pretext worked for deploying s400.
Great move I'd say.

Your evaluation is not sufficiently considered and it lacks vital information . The move was to announce the arrival of Turks back at the international table as an independent player .
It worked fine .

a reply to: Mastronaut

Governments in the west are ok for atrocities as long as they can exploit what they want when they want it, it's not a matter of not siding with Russia cause they are sub-par.

That is true for most governments in the world...just look at Africa for that.

Saying only the west is good for that is a fallacy of huge proportions...Russia has exploited it's fair share of atrocities that they have exploited too. Same with some of their closest allies.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Well, the narrative seems to be that we are better than those, but we're not, we're ok and the excuse of atrocities is just a pretext.
For the general idea of "every govt is immoral" I agree with you.

A bear vs a Turkey...

Is it still thanks giving?

originally posted by: Specimen
A bear vs a Turkey...

Is it still thanks giving?

Not for any country but the US and it ended Thursday. At least a turkey is useful...

originally posted by: 23432
So no violation of Russians occurred ? Is that what the narrative says to you too ?
The LAW reqirements for such an action to shoot a plane have all been met . Lawfull & Legally , there is absolutely nothing that the Russians can do to seek remedy for their loss .
That fact should tell you something.
Courts won't take a case if Russia goes to court . Court will say you have been warned fairly & squarely .

At G20 meeting in Antalya about 10 days ago there was a little exchange between Putin & Erdogan ;

Erdogan - Your planes are violating our borders .

Putin - You must treat them as guest .

Erdogan - Guests needs invitation in our culture .

Nobody is saying that russians, provided turkish data are correct, aren't at fault, I still need to see a tribunal decision tho, despite I tend to think they DID violate Turkey airspace. However legality this days is absolutely ignored by the same turkish airforce in Greece and Syria, but that doesn't matter does it?

I am old enough to understand the deep state security organ of Russia . KGB or FSB , same thing with a different name on it .
Putin is an ex-intelligence officer and most probably killed other humans by his own hands .

So what is your point?

Crimea is a Turkish name , the peninsula have had a large Turks of Ahiska and stalin genocided them .
Ukraine probably will call for a Turkish military assistance soon enough . Putin wants to revive the Russian Tsardome and he wants to be the first Tsar .

My use of Crimea was related to the alleged validity of Crimean votes for annexation. I didn't want to go into that diatribe since it had no connection to what I was talking about.

Turks should not be a region of EU with the current model of EU . So Erdogan is doing what is right for his country .

It doesn't seem he is doing it openly, from one side he pretends to join EU and on the other suicides his country reputation with a move that could spark WWIII.

Out of all 57 Sunni muslims countries , Erdogan has the support of 52 in the UN.
The fact is that the Turks are waking up and standing up to be counted once more .

No one is really happy about that but America .

And you should ask why only America, the land of freedom. But seems your leader has been able to piss a lot of americans too. And remember, at the UN you need 1 voting day to get from king to nothing. If the US and Russia ends up with a deal in Syria it will be with kurds and that's why your president wants Russia and America to stay away from each other.

Turkish treasury has access to enough amount of dollars so it can avoid any recession or a crisis. An unintended consequence of war of terror i.e war on muslim businessmen .
Highly unlikely that the Turks will be the new Greece .

Ye, it will not cost concessions, it's free, it's there, Turkey can't go broke. Who's hypnotizing you?

I don't see it that way . Turks are not playing ball with big pigs anymore . Turks are playin their own game in their own back garden .

Back garden that is called ISIS in Syria, smuggling of oil and Sharia law. I'd bet Israel will not let the USA funding Erdogan too much.

Your evaluation is not sufficiently considered and it lacks vital information . The move was to announce the arrival of Turks back at the international table as an independent player .
It worked fine .

It didn't work at all, it just showed Turkey is so desperate that hopes to drag the US-coalition into war with Russia before ISIS gets flattened or gets boring on tv (either of the two).
We know Erdogan's target (removing Assad), we know that this move just rendered that target much harder in the eyes of western people who witnessed war crimes from turkmens and other anti-assad rebels and know who they are backed by.

What are the vital informations that I need to understand the mighty new islamic state milita of Turkey? Care to provide a link every now and then in your nationalistic ramblings?