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originally posted by: 23432
It is not Erdogan propaganda , it is Turks playing straight . Russian bureocracy knows that Turks had every right to shoot the violating plane down .
That is the LAW .
Russians are not ignorant of LAW .
Putin is an ex KGB and I am surprised you don't seem to know this little fact .
Erdogan is the most popularly elected Leader around and I live in Istanbul , I know he has the support of half the population at the moment .
An external threat might see his popularity soar even higher.
Winter cold ain't gonna happen because Kurdish resources & Azeri resources ready to be used .
Russia is the bigger loser here , their economy is based on one commodity , oil .
In the long run if you think the Russians are going to be controlling Eastern Med well, you are wrong.
russia and france want to shut down syrian border crossing and close border(thus trapping turkmen and cutting off aid and supplies)
Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov says he supports France’s proposal to shut down the Turkish-Syrian border as a way to fight Islamic State fighters in Syria. French President Francois Hollande was in Moscow on Thursday to wrap up a week of international visits in a bid to forge a broad international coalition against the IS. In the wake of Turkey’s shootdown of a Russian warplane over Syria on Tuesday Moscow has lashed out at Ankara, accusing it of buying oil from IS and supporting terrorist groups there.
so hopeully with two super powers on the same page isis gets the pounding it deserves between usa russia iran kurds etc the list of the enemies of isis grow daily
Russian President Vladimir Putin says Russia is ready to cooperate with the U.S.-led coalition fighting the Islamic State group. Putin said after talks with French President Francois Hollande that Russia is open to closer cooperation with both France and the U.S.-led coalition on selecting IS targets. At the same time, he lashed out at the U.S. over the downing of a Russian warplane by Turkey, saying the U.S. should have prevented its coalition ally Turkey from making such a move. He said that Russia will hold "serious consultations" with the U.S. over the incident.
originally posted by: RalagaNarHallas
a reply to: Xcathdra
look we get it you dont like them(and i aint their biggest fan) but to treat it like Russia options are limited is some what foolish so lets just hope thigns de escalate instead of keep getting more intense
if Putin was as bad as every one seems to claim he would be arresting all turkish citizens in russia and deport them or send them to the good old fashoned gulags(not likely at all but its putin so ya never know) erogen may want to employ a food taster with Putin's love for poisoning enemies with radiation
originally posted by: Mastronaut
originally posted by: Xcathdra
and yet out of all that the fact remains russia kept violating turkish airspace. They shouldnt do that..
Yeah, "Bad russians! Yolo" is much more credible than "Bad russians! Don't touch our ISIS oil and anti-Assad guys".
originally posted by: Xcathdra
Are you able to think independantly of Russian talking points.
If Russia was so good why are they still sanctioned? Why havent any governments sided with them? Even China is quiet...
So yes Putin is a tool thats destroying Russia that sold out to China in desperation.
if Putin was as bad as every one seems to claim he would be arresting all turkish citizens in russia and deport them or send them to the good old fashoned gulags(not likely at all but its putin so ya never know) erogen may want to employ a food taster with Putin's love for poisoning enemies with radiation
originally posted by: Mastronaut
It's not about law or patriotism or sovereign airspace, that's bull# for us servants. Turks are playing dirty, in fact it seems pretty clear they ended up hitting an invader OUTSIDE their territory. If it wasn't Syria, where everyone can abuse of its sov, Turks did 2 wrongs with a single shot: an invasion and an overreaction. Great move!
So no violation of Russians occurred ? Is that what the narrative says to you too ?
The LAW reqirements for such an action to shoot a plane have all been met . Lawfull & Legally , there is absolutely nothing that the Russians can do to seek remedy for their loss .
That fact should tell you something.
Courts won't take a case if Russia goes to court . Court will say you have been warned fairly & squarely .
At G20 meeting in Antalya about 10 days ago there was a little exchange between Putin & Erdogan ;
Erdogan - Your planes are violating our borders .
Putin - You must treat them as guest .
Erdogan - Guests needs invitation in our culture .
Putin was in the FSB and has connections with the GRU. I improperly said "he was not" because there are many quotes, but not exactly well sourced, and could have easily been mismatched for another service (like CIA vs DIA).
I am old enough to understand the deep state security organ of Russia . KGB or FSB , same thing with a different name on it .
Putin is an ex-intelligence officer and most probably killed other humans by his own hands .
50% of the voters maybe, and given his record on freedom of journalism I wouldn't make his support more than the russian one in Crimea. Of course an external threat is what he was seeking, but since he has just won an election, why is he going to search more consensus? Because he wants a presidential islamic state and to change the constitution he needs both kurds out of the way and 2/3 of the parliament and he is close to succeed. This anyway will close the doors to the EU.
Crimea is a Turkish name , the peninsula have had a large Turks of Ahiska and stalin genocided them .
Ukraine probably will call for a Turkish military assistance soon enough . Putin wants to revive the Russian Tsardome and he wants to be the first Tsar .
Turks should not be a region of EU with the current model of EU . So Erdogan is doing what is right for his country .
Out of all 57 Sunni muslims countries , Erdogan has the support of 52 in the UN.
The fact is that the Turks are waking up and standing up to be counted once more .
No one is really happy about that but America .
Yes Russia had a big loss nonetheless, in the long therm Turkey just the counterbalance from western pressures and will turned to pieces as soon as the industry isn't going to make up for the losses. If you think the problem is "cold winters" you misunderstood me, I meant to say that this is the last winter before Turkey becomes the new Greece.
Turkish treasury has access to enough amount of dollars so it can avoid any recession or a crisis. An unintended consequence of war of terror i.e war on muslim businessmen .
Highly unlikely that the Turks will be the new Greece .
In the long run I see both eastern and western big pigs getting along and make peace, and let Turkey and Saudi pay the entire bill of the Syrian war just to remind them who's the white guy.
I don't see it that way . Turks are not playing ball with big pigs anymore . Turks are playin their own game in their own back garden .
And where did I say Russia will be controlling Eastern Med? They just need to not get singled out to "win", given historical presence. On the other side now Turkey is vulnerable even inside his country given the pretext worked for deploying s400.
Great move I'd say.
Governments in the west are ok for atrocities as long as they can exploit what they want when they want it, it's not a matter of not siding with Russia cause they are sub-par.
originally posted by: 23432
So no violation of Russians occurred ? Is that what the narrative says to you too ?
The LAW reqirements for such an action to shoot a plane have all been met . Lawfull & Legally , there is absolutely nothing that the Russians can do to seek remedy for their loss .
That fact should tell you something.
Courts won't take a case if Russia goes to court . Court will say you have been warned fairly & squarely .
At G20 meeting in Antalya about 10 days ago there was a little exchange between Putin & Erdogan ;
Erdogan - Your planes are violating our borders .
Putin - You must treat them as guest .
Erdogan - Guests needs invitation in our culture .
I am old enough to understand the deep state security organ of Russia . KGB or FSB , same thing with a different name on it .
Putin is an ex-intelligence officer and most probably killed other humans by his own hands .
Crimea is a Turkish name , the peninsula have had a large Turks of Ahiska and stalin genocided them .
Ukraine probably will call for a Turkish military assistance soon enough . Putin wants to revive the Russian Tsardome and he wants to be the first Tsar .
Turks should not be a region of EU with the current model of EU . So Erdogan is doing what is right for his country .
Out of all 57 Sunni muslims countries , Erdogan has the support of 52 in the UN.
The fact is that the Turks are waking up and standing up to be counted once more .
No one is really happy about that but America .
Turkish treasury has access to enough amount of dollars so it can avoid any recession or a crisis. An unintended consequence of war of terror i.e war on muslim businessmen .
Highly unlikely that the Turks will be the new Greece .
I don't see it that way . Turks are not playing ball with big pigs anymore . Turks are playin their own game in their own back garden .
Your evaluation is not sufficiently considered and it lacks vital information . The move was to announce the arrival of Turks back at the international table as an independent player .
It worked fine .