Is Saying "Only" Radical Islam Is The Problem, A Conspiracy Born Out Of PC ?

Here is the PEW poll

According to the poll, 86 percent of Muslims in Pakistan, 84 percent in Afghanistan, 81 percent in the Palestinian territories, 80 percent in Egypt, 65 percent in Jordan, 57 percent in Iraq and 54 percent in Malaysia and Bangladesh favor stoning as a lethal punishment for adultery.

A majority of Muslims in several countries also support the death penalty for Muslims who convert away from Islam, including in Afghanistan (79 percent), Egypt (88 percent), Pakistan (75 percent), the Palestinian territories (62 percent), Jordan (83 percent) and Malaysia (58 percent).

Now how can anybody say the moderates are the majority in the face of these figures ?
How can liberal atheists support and defend this, it baffles me to no end, if Muslims want to join them and leave that religion, they will be killed if they do, if caught, at least in those countries.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33
You should provide a link to the poll as I'm not seeing a link.

I think your opening post would have sounded more factual and less opinionated if you had cited some statistics such as these to support your arguments, but better late than never.

Support for the death penalty for those who wish to practice another religion doesn't seem moderate to me.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

I hope I don't understand the point of your post. It seems as if you live in some dark neocon fantasy world where Muslims are dangerous "radicals", and those who aren't dangerous radicals aren't truly Muslim, thus, we should exterminate them. In a nutshell, that's what you're saying.

Luckily, in the US, we have a bit of history in terms of what to do with genocidal maniacs. There's better ways to overcome that quaking in your cowardly boots than to lash out at imagined ghosts/boogeymen..

originally posted by: Arbitrageur
a reply to: Blue_Jay33
You should provide a link to the poll as I'm not seeing a link.

The pew research claims could be a bit misleading, as per below. It is based on those Muslims who are in favour of sharia as the law of their country. Though, overall, it doesn't seem to indicate that such a group is insignificant. Quite the contrary.

The op makes some good points. No religion should be beyond criticisms. Atheists (quite rightly) are regularly quite vocal in their criticisms of christianity. The track record of countries swayed by religious principles regarding human rights and societal health isn't stellar to begin with. Islamic countries certainly do nothing to dispel that notion.

Of course there are moderate elements that usually make up the majority in most religions. This counter argument seems like a strawman as to what the op is putting up for discussion. In many parts of the world this divide between moderate and radical, at least concerning what is accepted as a genuine belief, is a blurry one and largely regionally dependant. The polls do seem to support the op view this way.

Though if we are to see religion in general for what it is, they all seem based on unsupportable delusion to begin with. Having "moderates and extremists" could be better said as having the "moderately delusional" and the "extremely delusional". Organised religions themselves seem like support groups for those afflicted with with a fervent belief in nonsense, with teachings that can be (and regularly are) interpreted to support whatever agenda you like.

The three main faiths originating from this part of the world rely on "holy books" that are quite backward and primitive. When you throw in extremism (or extremist elements) who wish to interpret them literally, or promote such interpretations to manipulate, problems arise. That is true with ideologies in general (not only religious) when taken to extreme, as the 20th century showed us.

One day humanity will see religion for what it is and discard it. That won't be a bad thing.








www.pewforum.org...

www.pewforum.org...

a reply to: dogstar23

It seems as if you live in some dark neocon fantasy world where Muslims are dangerous "radicals", and those who aren't dangerous radicals aren't truly Muslim, thus, we should exterminate them.

NO !

That isn't a option, and we all know that.
Why do people immediately think justifiable criticism, means "kill them all", it doesn't.
It also doesn't mean round them up and deport them, and it doesn't mean send them to camps either.
I don't know what the answer is, other than reformation.

If you had a Muslim that lives in a house, and the nieghbours to his left are a homosexual couple, and a feminist adulteress that kicked her husband out to his right, and a ex-Muslim living across the street, that converted to Christianity, and they think all those neighbors should be killed, that is pretty radical, even if they don't say it but think it. No matter what anybody says it sure doesn't seem to be a culture of live and let live.

I have to agree with Bill Mayher in this area, liberal progressives are defending something under the guise "oh it's only a few, most don't believe that". Yet the post above mine shows it's not just a few but when you combine them all it's 10's of millions feel this way all over the world.

How do you defend those statistics, or are people just saying nah, I just don't believe that.

In which case, let me give you another pair of rose colored glasses.

It's no coincidence that religious belief and more importantly, radical or extreme belief, seems relevant and proportional to circumstance. Sociological studies seem to support this. It was long thought that the US itself contradicted this general observation making it irrelevant (being both highly religious and modern wealthy first world nation). Until it was studied in further depth and found that it actually exemplified it.

Those countries/societies in more impoverished circumstances (either financially and/or sociologically) are far more likely to cling to religion. When the underlying conditions improve, such beliefs fall by the wayside.

Debating religious dogma itself or attempting to reform systems based on it, while they shouldn't be discouraged, are unlikely to be successful re such reforms. All indications (from studies in the modern first world) are that religion falls away naturally as a consequence of improved sociological circumstances, while secular principles and science based explanations commensurately gain in popularity.

Sorry guys on the first page I posted the wrong video on which explains and shows the Quran verses and biblical verses that Muslims Allah is Satan. ( I was in a hurry rushing, as I had to visit someone in hospital)

The Quran admits that Allah is Satan ( Duration 7:33 )

I would simply say this. Radical Islamic Terrorists are the main problem. These people are recruited from Islamic Muslims and ONLY Muslims. There are no Christians or Jews that are recruited to become Radical Islamic Terrorists. So...while they are the main problem, they are fed by the believers and supporters of Islam.

If you kill all the Radical Islamic Terrorists, they can and likely will repopulate from nothing to something during the natural conversion of the remaining Muslims. Therefore...unless you don't have both groups, you will never get rid of the Radical Islamic Terrorists.

Please correct me if I'm missing something.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Please correct me if I'm missing something.

Are you saying that Islamic Muslims support Terrorism ... well some do anD some don't
Who else is supporting Terrorism ...
Who does the recruiting
Who provides the funds ... the weapons

Who is manipulating the media including inter net in a form of social programming causing fear and division
Who will stop at nothing to gain control of Earth's resources

The terrorists you speak of are brainwashed as are the masses who can not see beyond religious divide
Of course the millions who have died by allied bombs are conveniently not counted as victims of Terrorism

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Funny how things people don't want to hear are called Politically Correct as some kind of a slur. Climate change is another one but so is this. People try to bash the whole religion and everyone who practices it mostly because it's EASIER and they just don't want to exercise the mental effort to imagine there are good people in this religion. They hear the truth and think people are lying. Why? Because it's easier for them. They cannot handle nuanced decisions that require one to see many sides of an issue and they don't try.

Oh dang. A christian far right extremist making a thread about Islam. Same # different day on ATS.

As for the chants in Turkey,it is explained in this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Turks were pissed that no one paid respect to their victims after Isis had killed 100 people and wounded 300 at a peace rally in Ankara a month ago.

If anybody is interested: Sam Harris and Reza Aslan have been debating this for years now. Both have opposing views about Islamic terrorists. I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. The text of the Quran is problematic, but so are many pages in the Old Testament when it comes to violently spreading the faith. The question is why don't we see an equal amount of Christian terrorists?

The Islamic faith has been hijacked by very powerful forces that don't want co-habitation. They truly believe in jihad. How do we deal with them in the 21st century? If they get hold of a nuke they won't hesitate to use it …

a reply to: Blue_Jay33
I guess the only moderate Muslim is Barack Hussein Obama !
I just wonder why they have called him Hussein, his behavior is opposite to Hussein.

a reply to: gps777

The Quran admits that Allah is Satan

Well if the creator is all, the alpha and omega, then yes God is everything God created, Satan included.

Are you one those fools that believe Satan is Gods opponent or opposite?

Flicking through the video gives me enough of an impression of yourself if you take these types of info seriously.

It looks like its shows verses from each text and how one verse in one text is interpreted by whats in another text.

Yeah, just played a bit more of the video,

I guess.... No, I was about to say yeah people will believe in anything, but this video takes a real special kind stupid to be taken seriously.

I just cant fathom someone would take such rubbish seriously if they haven't got an extremist mindset themselves.

Anyone else find it amusing that the OP, who is advocating that the majority of Muslims are radical terrorists based on a single event, is a biblical literalist creationist? He constantly attacks science and knowledge, and basically anybody that is not Christian creationist gets slandered with lies. We get it, man. Anybody that disagrees with your world view is automatically wrong and evil, including all science and biology.

The problem is, like usual, your research is extremely poor. He's the type that thinks the majority of Christians are not Christians because they don't take the bible literally as extremists do with the Quaran, yet here he is denouncing Islam as a whole over extremists events. I think the OP needs to invest in a mirror.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
Here is the PEW poll

According to the poll, 86 percent of Muslims in Pakistan, 84 percent in Afghanistan, 81 percent in the Palestinian territories, 80 percent in Egypt, 65 percent in Jordan, 57 percent in Iraq and 54 percent in Malaysia and Bangladesh favor stoning as a lethal punishment for adultery.

A majority of Muslims in several countries also support the death penalty for Muslims who convert away from Islam, including in Afghanistan (79 percent), Egypt (88 percent), Pakistan (75 percent), the Palestinian territories (62 percent), Jordan (83 percent) and Malaysia (58 percent).

Now how can anybody say the moderates are the majority in the face of these figures ?
How can liberal atheists support and defend this, it baffles me to no end, if Muslims want to join them and leave that religion, they will be killed if they do, if caught, at least in those countries.

I support a country's right to self-determine. Don't you?

a reply to: Barcs

advocating that the majority of Muslims are radical terrorists based on a single event

Dude really, I mean really, now who is lying ?

Because that isn't what I believe or posted.
I find it most amusing too, an interesting phenomenon within the ATS community, how the atheists are like "meh" towards a religion that will kill Muslims that want to leave the faith to perhaps become atheists, compared to Christians who basically say "do and believe what you want, but your wrong". The perception difference is mind blowing. Actually I would like it if they became atheists and believe in evolution instead of Allah creating everything, then that small majority that actually do commit the actual terrorism wouldn't be so motivated to do these suicide missions that end up with so many deaths including their own. I fully support them learning about evolution and embracing it.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
a reply to: Barcs

advocating that the majority of Muslims are radical terrorists based on a single event

Dude really, I mean really, now who is lying ?

Because that isn't what I believe or posted.

Here is your exact quote:

"I kept telling myself this is just small minority doing this, and the ones driven to violence are a tiny group of radicals, BUT they have a cheerleading base that is not a minority by any means, it is in fact a majority as witnessed from the reaction in those three football matchs during the minute of silence."

So basically you claim that the majority of Muslims support extremist actions because of the crowd at few football games?

I find it most amusing too, an interesting phenomenon within the ATS community, how the atheists are like "meh" towards a religion that will kill Muslims that want to leave the faith to perhaps become atheists, compared to Christians who basically say "do and believe what you want, but your wrong".

Do you not notice the hypocrisy of this statement? You said "a religion that will kill Muslims". Religions don't kill anybody, people do based on interpretation. If somebody said that Christianity has killed millions, would you not say the same thing in response? I'm pretty sure you have in the past. Millions stoned to death based on biblical law, but now that extremist Muslims (yes, they are a small minority of Muslims, just like young earth creationists are small minority of Christians) are doing similar things over literal interpretations of the Quaran (a book written during a time of war and extreme persecution), it's a problem.

The perception difference is mind blowing. Actually I would like it if they became atheists and believe in evolution instead of Allah creating everything, then that small majority that actually do commit the actual terrorism wouldn't be so motivated to do these suicide missions that end up with so many deaths including their own. I fully support them learning about evolution and embracing it.

Ah yes, EVILution. The work of the devil hypnotizing Darwin and thousands of biologists worldwide while god sits back and does nothing. Must be that analytical thinking at work again here.

Personally, I don't like either religion. Both were founded on violence and both were forced on people with the only other choice being death. The thing they both have in common, however, is that the extremists and literalists give them a bad name. Most Christians don't think all biology is a giant devil conspiracy just like most Muslims don't believe in death to non believers. These are small minority fringe groups that only get attention because they scream the loudest.

I don't have a problem with either religion, or anybody that chooses to place faith. It's when that faith involves attacking anybody that believes different than you, like you have done in this thread. You are judging all Muslims based on the actions of a few extremists. I speak out quite often against science denial and YEC, but I would never suggest that faith is evil or that all Christians are idiots because of the ignorant folks that attack evolution blindly.

Besides, we all know your style now. You attack atheists. You attack evolutionary scientists. You attack Muslims. The question is, which non Christian will you generalize and attack next. Wasn't Jesus all about not fighting with other people or judging them?

a reply to: lucifershiningone

Saying all Muslims are exactly like the radicals is ignorant and where PC should be used because unless you have read the Quran from front to back..you really have no idea what you are talking about. Taking the bits and pieces used by some is not actual facts, because if you are willing you can look into other books and find vile and disgusting "phrases" to make something look worse than it actually is.

I believe all Muslims have the very same book do they not? Do the Muslims believe that every word of that Qur'an is literal truth?

If one is a Muslim and that one vows the Muslim faith then that one is obligated to follow the book of Muhammad. If a Muslim does not follow that book then that Muslim is not a true Muslim. There are no various interpretations of the book such as is in Judaism or Christianity. It's a matter of one book for all and if one is a Muslim then that is their book.

The radical (politically correct term) Muslim is simply doing what that book tells all of them to do. He/She is not pulling something out of nowhere. The Qur'an teaches all Muslims the same things out of the same book and in the same language.
This fable of different strokes for different folks does not apply in Islam. Can you explain the difference from a good Muslim and a bad Muslim? Is a bad Muslim a person that follows the book which he/she has been taught to obey? And that seems to be okay with you?

a reply to: Barcs

He's the type that thinks the majority of Christians are not Christians because they don't take the bible literally as extremists do with the Quaran, yet here he is denouncing Islam as a whole over extremists events. I think the OP needs to invest in a mirror.

Or,
at least a couple of textbooks. Nonfiction sorta history type things.