Freemasons – A Disgrace to Humanity

originally posted by: eisegesis
It's strange, I already feel like a "brother" though I'm not a Freemason. Now why can't you guys drop the act and start helping humanity get back on their feet? Use what integrity you have and de-compartmentalize into a greater force for good across the planet. The veil of secrecy just doesn't help us believe that what you are telling us is all that there is.

Why don't you? What have YOU done in helping humanity get back on their feet? List your achievements out to us.

... but those who use Freemasonry as a platform to pool resources and unfairly serve the agendas of other members. Those who invest in war, not peace, as many members are shown to exist amongst our military. Those who have helped others avoid consequence throughout history's fumbles due to the independent or affiliated pursuit of power. All trash.

You're listing out the plot of any number of HOLLYWOOD films. None of that is correct and goes against the core tenants of Freemasonry. No one in my lodge is like that. I'm not like that. The people in my lodge are plumbers, nurses, paramedics, a few police and some self-employed salesmen. NO ONE I know has the money or the resources to do any of what you claim we do. Politics, religion -- all that is prohibited from being discussed. Did you know that?

WHy don't you start at campaign to have Freemasonry banned if you're so sure it's such a bad thing. Forget the millions upon millions of pounds donated to charity. No, focus on the few "bad apples", tarnish the lot of us as NWO conspirators and get us arrested.

Go on, eisegesis , "help humanity". Make a difference.

a reply to: noonebutme

What have YOU done in helping humanity get back on their feet?

One of my greatest achievements is spending 8 hours a day making it clean, comfortable and as fulfilling as my expressions allow for up to 120 elderly people. I make sure my 15 employees maintain the utmost respect when conversing or dealing with the best and worst of personality types. I use my own money to buy our residents little things that they like even though it is against policy to do so. I make dozens of them smile a day, sometimes up until their last. Its been an emotional, but rewarding 10 years of my life and I am still very young.

I worked hard and smiled every day until I was promoted to manager, which before then, allowed me to interact even more with my previous building's residents. I serve as an example to my staff and offer listening support and constructive suggestions, even if I'm unable to make lasting friendships. My heads about to pop, so there you go. I'm happy with who I am and how I expend my energy. No regrets.

I would make a great Mason, lol.

You're listing out the plot of any number of HOLLYWOOD films.

Thanks for tossing me that bone. I always knew there was a correlation. Many screenplay writers and directors are Freemasons, you should know that!

WHy don't you start at campaign to have Freemasonry banned if you're so sure it's such a bad thing.

That is not my intention. Some of you just need soap in the mouth. If I had a big can of sanitizer, I would dispel the world of evil, trust me. It is entrenched in our DNA. Evil will never cease to exist until human disappear or become so chastised, the only motions left carried out are involuntary. Naturalism is inherent to our species, but almost always sends us searching for a greater explanation related to our creation and purpose.

Those who can acknowledge their animosity, control it and focus their abilities, join a hard club to get into. Once you find yourself there, the world begins to look like a zoo from your new found perspective. I'd rather blend in and embrace my wild side than stand on the backs of perceived mongrels.

originally posted by: JoshNorton
Here they are.

* Be a good person.

* Make wise use of your time and lead a balanced life.

That's the secret, right there. Those are the core lessons of every Masonic degree, 1-33.

If you fail, you have no one to blame but yourself.

Pretty much the same in the York Rite.

I don't believe masons are inordinately powerful or inherently bad. The problem is one of group identity. If you associate your identity with a group by wearing a badge, a ring or a uniform then you've forgone individualism to an extent and are just as culpable by choice for any bad that goes on within the group as good.

Things have historically occurred within masonry to bring it into disrepute, it's not the fault of every mason but it's human nature to be judged by the company you keep. When that company is secretive then you're gonna be a magnet for suspicion anyway.

originally posted by: eisegesis
Now why can't you guys drop the act and start helping humanity get back on their feet?

The ONLY person I can really help get on their feet is myself. I can strive to be the best person I can be, and when I die, hope that I've left a positive impression on those I've left behind. That's it. That's all anyone can do, when it comes down to it.

I can't force you to change the way you think. I can try to lead by example, and if you, or anyone else, made the effort they could try to change their own lives to be more like mine. But that's the extent of my, or any other person's influence.

Use what integrity you have and de-compartmentalize into a greater force for good across the planet.

I'm only one guy. The guy next to me in lodge? He's only one guy too, and he's working through his own issues. What kind of global sweeping change do you really think we have the power to enact?

The veil of secrecy just doesn't help us believe that what you are telling us is all that there is.

What would it matter if there were more? I'm not stopping you from being a better person. Sounds from your description like you're doing just fine without my intervention one way or another.

I'm not directing that at you per se, but those who use Freemasonry as a platform to pool resources and unfairly serve the agendas of other members.

Nobody has an agenda. There is no pool of resources. My lodge is 55 years old and has around $34,000 in the bank. We pay $9000 a year in rent, not to mention other bills and expenses.

What EXACTLY do you suppose we are withholding from anyone?

Those who invest in war, not peace, as many members are shown to exist amongst our military.

You know, there are a lot of men in the military. We should try to make men better.

There are a lot of christians in the military. We should try to make christians better.

There are a lot of white people in the military. We should try to make white people better.

There are, statistically, a lot more white, male christians in the military than Freemasons. So why blame such a small minority?

Those who have helped others avoid consequence throughout history's fumbles due to the independent or affiliated pursuit of power. All trash.

Individuals pursue power; groups cannot hold it.

As names emerge, more questions arise. The OP spoke directly to the possible manipulation of trial and evidence relating to one of most significant events in history. Many suspicions arise after looking into the who's and whys, while money trails always lead to a pot of gold. Add a bunch of Freemasons and you've got yourself a party!

Only because you can't sue an iceberg…

a reply to: JoshNorton

The ONLY person I can really help get on their feet is myself. I can strive to be the best person I can be, and when I die, hope that I've left a positive impression on those I've left behind. That's it. That's all anyone can do, when it comes down to it.

I can't force you to change the way you think. I can try to lead by example, and if you, or anyone else, made the effort they could try to change their own lives to be more like mine. But that's the extent of my, or any other person's influence.

Well said. I aspire to be the same.

I'm only one guy. The guy next to me in lodge? He's only one guy too, and he's working through his own issues. What kind of global sweeping change do you really think we have the power to enact?

Take yourself out of the equation. There is no reason in discussing this point further unless you're willing to admit that there are Masons helping fellow Masons achieve positions of influence and power contrary to what I might have to go through in order to achieve the same outcome.

To simplify, if the judge is a Mason and a fellow Mason in the same district from the same lodge stands before him in a court of law, the judges response to their plea would be different than if I was standing there strictly due to the fact that he is recognized as a "brother".

What would it matter if there were more?

Actually, I'm specifically interested in the Master of the First, Second, Third and Fourth Veil if you have some time.

You know, there are a lot of men in the military. We should try to make men better.

You forget, many are just following orders. We're not talking about grunt Masons, I'm speaking about great captains, generals and leaders alike. Don't intentionally mislead me now. Many great and powerful leaders in history and their high level associates have alluded to being Mason through signs and symbolism they've displayed.

Individuals pursue power; groups cannot hold it.

Sounds cryptic, but I like it. Ever heard of strength/power in numbers? An oath will make a group act as one body. I'm going to disagree as some power is to great to wield alone.

a reply to: eisegesis

This sort of argument boils down to the question "do you think you can do better?"

The winner, whoever the winner is, is the winner because they are winning. They must be doing something right.

Why not do what they do?

originally posted by: eisegesis
There is no reason in discussing this point further unless you're willing to admit that there are Masons helping fellow Masons achieve positions of influence and power contrary to what I might have to go through in order to achieve the same outcome.

Except you're assuming this nepotistic behavior happens or is something common. Nepotism is something that could occur between any two parties.

Actually, I'm specifically interested in the Master of the First, Second, Third and Fourth Veil if you have some time.

The Masters of the Veils are with Royal Arch Masonry.

Many great and powerful leaders in history and their high level associates have alluded to being Mason through signs and symbolism they've displayed.

This is conjecture though.

So, I noticed that the majority of the people you listed were right handed. Does that mean all right handed people are evil?

To answer your implied question, why were so many powerful men masons? Did masonry assist their power?

1st answer. They were masons for the very reason masons are distrusted today. The oath of secrecy. They new they could talk in the lodge, to their brothers, and not get ratted out. The reason we keep the secrets now, even tho everything is on the net, is to prove we can be trusted. My oath does not make me lie either. If you ask me something I can't reveal, I'll tell you that. "Sorry, can't answer that"

2nd answer. Yes, masonry helps with power. Think about it. You're a powerful man with secrets, as all those in power have. You need an assistant. Do you take any old Joe, or a brother that has proven he can keep a secret?

As for masonry and the nwo. Nothing in masonry is about the nwo. Masonry is about becoming better men. How to CRAFT yourself so that you are SQUARE and treat people ON THE LEVEL.

We don't ask people to join, they must come to us. That right there is antithetical to forcing people to do something via nwo.

There may be nwo people that are masons, but its not masonry that makes them nwo types. Just like nwo types may be right handed, buts its not because they are right handed that they are nwo.

Besides, masonry among the elite is in decline. They are much more likely to be bilderburgs and tri lats. Those orgs are expressly for the purpose of power, economic and political. I've never heard of a mosonic meeting with half the security of those meetings.

a reply to: KSigMason

Except you're assuming this nepotistic behavior happens or is something common. Nepotism is something that could occur between any two parties.

Well, I am boldly under the assumption that it does happen more often than any brave little journalist could describe.

In my opinion, this conjecture is not entirely baseless. There is no such thing as "complete information" pertaining to Freemasonry unless the missing parts are verbally introduced.

Are you willing to discuss the Master of the Veil degrees or the Lion's Paw/Grip? Or more specifically, the Sign of the Second Veil. I'm starting to open up, lol.

a reply to: eisegesis

Nepotism occurs in every thing. Same law school? Same frat?

However, I doubt a judge would free a guilty man just because both are masons. Part of masonry is to accept punishment for wrong action. It's called Manning up.

a reply to: eisegesis
I'll discuss with you the Masters of the Veil and Royal Arch Masonry, but it will have to wait until later...I'm off to bed. Just PM me.

originally posted by: eisegesis
Take yourself out of the equation. There is no reason in discussing this point further unless you're willing to admit that there are Masons helping fellow Masons achieve positions of influence and power contrary to what I might have to go through in order to achieve the same outcome.

You know what? If the mother of a kid on my son's soccer team asked me for a job I'd probably be more likely to give it to her than an equally qualified stranger as well. Or someone I knew from church. Or an alumnus of my university. That's human nature, and Freemasonry is no more likely to abuse it than any other group of people with a shared interest, social circle, or background.

To simplify, if the judge is a Mason and a fellow Mason in the same district from the same lodge stands before him in a court of law, the judges response to their plea would be different than if I was standing there strictly due to the fact that he is recognized as a "brother".

Here you're absolutely correct. A Masonic judge would be more harsh on a fellow brother because he would hold him to a higher standard than someone who had not taken the same vows. You're more likely to get a speeding ticket from a Masonic cop if you have a Masonic emblem on your car.

Actually, I'm specifically interested in the Master of the First, Second, Third and Fourth Veil if you have some time.

Not discussed in the various bodies I'm a member of, but KSig seems to recognize those.

Many great and powerful leaders in history and their high level associates have alluded to being Mason through signs and symbolism they've displayed.

We don't give signs or handshakes in public. It just isn't done. That's considered tacky.

originally posted by: eisegesis
To simplify, if the judge is a Mason and a fellow Mason in the same district from the same lodge stands before him in a court of law, the judges response to their plea would be different than if I was standing there strictly due to the fact that he is recognized as a "brother".

Again, that goes against everything Masonry stands for and both members would be summarily ejected from their lodge for such behaviour. Not just because it's inherently wrong, but also because it's so public and obvious, it would be picked up very quickly.

Do you have an example of this? I'm keen to know a real life example.

Does Masons hidden part of the book ,Chronicles from the Future: The amazing story of Paul Amadeus Dienach, or is this whole book which was published?

Just when i tought we were past all this freemasonary conspiracy hogwash...

Is it 2007 all over again ?

After my post [in which I made clear that I am a noob to this], I learned some more, yet it doesn't satisfy me.

I knew that the 'cut throat gesture' was more symbolic...BUT...apparently you just get expelled for spilling the beans?

If that was true, then these things make me wonder:

- There must have been many people spilling the beans on the secrets, yet none [apart from the hand shakes, which are commonly known anyway] are to be found on the internet. Why? Everything gets shared quickly. If an 'expelled' FM told me the secret, I would put it up on the net before he could finish his sentence.

- Maybe the spilled beans are just too unimportant? Then why make such a bloody fuss about them in the first place?

- Apparently anyone can join and pay £100 if they believe in a higher being? Why then are all the masons I know rich business people? I have yet to meet a Mc Donald employee amongst their ranks. Something doesn't add up.

- Why, if everything is so normal and unimportant and mediocre and for everyone, are there so many important buildings and whole areas build up with masonic architecture? Normal developers can't do this. Imagine some Joe Bloggs Architect coming along and saying he wants to design the city district where all important decisions are made. Yeah, wouldn't happen. Yet the Masons somehow have managed just that. Tell me again how they are just like 'you and me'.

- If there are no secrets that can't be told, why swear on oath, why make such a fuss with all the ranks and all that malarkey? If that was true, it would make FM look like clowns and all the rituals would be extremely ridiculous.

How could I believe anything a 'so called' Free Mason tells me here on ATS?

First off you could be of the lowest rank and have no clue about the rest yourself.
Or if you are a Master who is sworn to secrecy, you would obviously say that there is nothing much to it!

So, please explain the above. I am really interested in this.

a reply to: Hecate666
Did you really think that we killed our members?!

Then why make such a bloody fuss about them in the first place?

That's a good question.

Apparently anyone can join and pay £100 if they believe in a higher being? Why then are all the masons I know rich business people? I have yet to meet a Mc Donald employee amongst their ranks. Something doesn't add up.

Because you only know a few Freemasons?

Why, if everything is so normal and unimportant and mediocre and for everyone, are there so many important buildings and whole areas build up with masonic architecture? Normal developers can't do this.

Why not? What is "Masonic architecture"? Freemasonry remembers and celebrates the ancient styles of architecture, but there's no such thing as "Masonic architecture"? Are you referring to our symbols being on buildings? Symbols used in Freemasonry not copyrighted or trademarked.

Imagine some Joe Bloggs Architect coming along and saying he wants to design the city district where all important decisions are made. Yeah, wouldn't happen. Yet the Masons somehow have managed just that. Tell me again how they are just like 'you and me'.

Where has this happened?

First off you could be of the lowest rank and have no clue about the rest yourself.

And what are "lowest ranks" consist of?

Or if you are a Master who is sworn to secrecy, you would obviously say that there is nothing much to it!

Lying is not something propagated in Freemasonry.

a reply to: eisegesis

The Freemasons are the least of your worries; Have you ever heard of the Crowns Shadow?

The Crowns Shadow is a clandestine operation that has existed since the fall of the Ottoman empire. The order was believed to have been formed after a failed coup in 1516 and it is believed that they have had a hand in the uprisings against governments and revolutions against faux monarchies throughout history and has been accused of trying to prevent the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand-which resulted in the outbreak of WW1.

The Crowns Shadow are believed to be staunch monarchists and some conspiracies claim that the the organization uses esoteric knowledge to attain information and lost knowledge.

Obviously what I just said was BS-but this is the internet. Maybe, just Maybe asking a Freemason could clear up any misconceptions or misunderstandings.

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

Which monarchy?