Let's discuss the reality of the ADHD mind...

a reply to: onequestion

you first born? mother dumps most the toxicity in the first born more a gap from birth vs next child

originally posted by: ringdingdong
a reply to: onequestion

you first born? mother dumps most the toxicity in the first born more a gap from birth vs next child

Yes.

originally posted by: onequestion

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: onequestion

originally posted by: bjarneorn
a reply to: onequestion

Let me ask one question, why medication?

I meditate and everything as well but in taking medication right now so I can get my life in order.

I suggest a modified Atkins diet. The full on is just too much.

My kid is ADD. She's 46 now. I've had a few years to learn stuff. She was and is not medicated.

She had zero attention on a one on one at age 6. Eye contact and squeezing her hands was required.

She pretty much outgrew it, but not completely. Detailed paperwork definitely not her thing.

I've been a competitive athlete for 14 years and my diet is really good but the concussions from being a fighter have taken their toll and so has the lifestyle so I'm finally accepting treatment so I can sort things out one at a time.

Oh, I'm not against treatment. I didn't mean that.

As my kids doc said: "there is brain dysfunction, then there is brain damage". Damage requires medication.

My family has hereditary ADD, bi-polar, & Autism Spectrum. I've found (over many years) that meat protein (beef specifically), small meals every few hours, no sugar, no alcohol etc helps keep me stable. Bi-polar episodes are no fun.

Over the years I've read just about everything related. Studies have found brains may be far more easy to damage then once thought. Even riding a roller coaster can cause the brain to bruise as it whips around a curve.

My personal experience with ADHD.

When I was 7 I was diagnosed by a child psychiatrist with hyperactivity. This was in the mid-70's and the term ADD/ADHD was not as common as it is today. My parents decided not to put me on medication and to just use good old fashioned discipline and diet. Of course, neither of those did anything.

I forgot about the diagnosis and went about my life. It was a rough life and as I look back I can see how the ADHD effected my life negatively. It effected every part of my life from personal decisions to education. Imagine having your thought process constantly fragmented and thinking it was normal. The OP has a very good description of it. I have thought of it in the same way except in the context of a malfunctioning multi-core processor running a multi-threaded program.

A few years ago, I was suffering from chronic insomnia and nothing my doctor(s) tried solved it. At times I thought I was going crazy from the tug of war between the desire to sleep and the fact my brain could not rest. It was a battle almost every night. In my search for answers, I found that ADHD is a cause for insomnia and the light bulb went off. I told my doctor about the diagnosis when I was seven and after a couple of test he started treatment for ADHD.

This completely changed my life. My insomnia started to fade, I still struggle with it but not anywhere near as bad as it was before. My thoughts became much less fragmented. My RLS (Restless leg syndrome) became much easier to control. There is a strong link between ADHD and RLS as their cause is very similar. I was back in college during this and it was struggle. Simple things like sitting though a lecture, even if I was interested, used to be so hard without moving around in my seat excessively or my mind becoming a blur.
After treatment, many of the issues had been reduced and it was a breeze.

General Information

ADHD is caused by the brains regulation systems for Dopamine and Norepinephrine. Typically studies show that 80% of the condition is due to Dopamine regulation.

Stimulant medication is effective because it raises the amount of Dopamine in the brain. Some of the new non-stimulant medications raise the level of Norepinephrine in the brain, but are not nearly as effective as stimulants because of the much smaller role Norepinephrine plays in ADHD.
I mentioned RLS earlier. It is also caused by low Dopamine levels, but can be treated with a Dopamine agonist like Requip. However, these do not help with ADHD.

There are many studies out there with quality across the scale and some fervent anti-ADHD camps.
Perhaps some criticism is warranted because in the larger picture ADHD is over/mis diagnosed. There are other conditions that can can appear ADHD like and medical professionals need to consider them when treating a patient.

Adults with ADHD will normally develop coping mechanisms to the condition, but the effects are still there and make life difficult. As in my case, once treated, it can be a HUGE weight off the shoulders.


Now the bit that might ruffle a few feathers

Do Diet and discipline treat it?

No! Neither treats the Dopamine deficiency that is ~80% of the cause. There are some studies that show diet and exercise can increase Dopamine levels, but not anywhere near the levels needed to treat somebody with moderate to severe ADHD.

If somebody claims it did, that person either did not have ADHD or a very mild case.

Conversely, diet does not cause it. The old wives tale about sugar intake causing ADHD are just that, a tale.



Well, I swore never to write about this again because of all the hate and misunderstanding that happens in threads about ADHD.
However, Something about the OP moved me to write this. Some of this post is rewritten from a previous post I did on this subject a few years ago.
That post was much more angry and perhaps over the last couple of years I have mellowed a bit.

a reply to: Dreamwatcher

gallon of tea a day. get the restless leg is potassium and magnesium deficiency. premium tea chug it by the hour no amphetamines needed.

originally posted by: MagesticEsoteric
a reply to: tinker9917

I eat healthier than most progressive liberal californians.

My diet isn't the issue.

My thought processes are just different from most.

You think I don't wish I could shut it down?

I'm sure you do want to shut it down. Like I said, change in diet helped my son improve some, but he really does much better with meds (even with a change in diet).

Like I pointed out earlier, if you have diabetes, a change in diet might help but you still need to have your insulin.

originally posted by: Dreamwatcher

Conversely, diet does not cause it. The old wives tale about sugar intake causing ADHD are just that, a tale.

Of course diet doesn't cause it.

But, everything in the body is connected. Keeping your blood levels, thyroid, heart rate, etc stable helps.

I know for sure it helps my brain focus. I have "fast brain" that jumps all over the place. I've had 60+ years to know how going "off diet" affects me.

a reply to: tinker9917
Thank you for explaining in more detail.
It doesn't apply to me in that way and I can only imagine how frustrating every day life would be.
I think it's sad that there isn't a more permanent solution to this, instead of medication for the rest of your life.
I wish you and your son the very best and hope that one day they do find better treatment.

originally posted by: onequestion

originally posted by: Tyrion79
a reply to: onequestion
To be more specific:

For the ADHD mind the data packets leave the data entry point organized and arrive fragmented and unorganized to the mind. The worst part about it is it's a constant data stream and multiple thought process are arriving and leaving at the same time making it hard to focus and complete tasks.

What this does is it makes it hard to stay on one task, to socialize, to hold a conversation among other things.

Your description would apply to me, however I don't think it's a real burden to me in my ability to operate within this reality, nor am I concerned about my ability in a social way.
In other words, in reflecting, how does this pose a restriction on you, if I'm allowed to be honest and inquisitive here?
I apoligise if I'm too forward in this (might explain a certain social issue lol).

I have the inability to stay focused on regular conversations and maintain close relationships with people due to being insensitive and blurting things out.

I'm sorry to hear this, as I could only imagine the frustration of it.
Would it be possible to increase your focus through practice and meditation?
As for being insensitive, if people really tried to get to know you, I think they should understand that you don't mean it personally.
It would require some patience from the other of course, maybe people with similar conditions are more understanding?
I don't know, I just wanted to give it a spin here, I''m not trying to be rude in any way.

originally posted by: DOCHOLIDAZE1
a reply to: onequestion

its sad that they use a real brain disorder to drug kids that dont need it. if i were you i would drop the drugs and just embrace yourself, the ones that made those pills are not your friend.

I have to agree with you from where I am sitting.

I wasn't pigeonholed holed into this category until about 15 years ago. Imagine being told by a doctor at the age of 50 that you suffer from ADHD.

I thought he was nuts because I may be deficient in a lot of things, but attention is not one of the them. If anything I would say I have hyper-attention syndrome. I not only notice things that other people don't notice, but they look at me like I am crazy if I point out the anomaly to them. I am used to "The Look", now. It clearly says, "How in the hell did you notice that, and what is wrong with you?" Even when I was a child, the old folks used to say, that I had the eyes of an eagle, and that I never missed a thing. So, I knew I was considered the odd bird, but not diseased.

My problem is battling the distractions. If I am busy with a task, and something that has nothing to with my task, draws my attention, for just a second, it takes the might of angels to stop me from putting what I am working on a back burner, and tackling the new problem. If I don't keep this issue in check, at the end of the day I have 20 pots on burners, I am working an a new problem, and nothing is actually completed.

This doctor tried me on Ritalin, but I couldn't take it because all it did was make me sleep. I know. I know. It is a stimulant, and it shouldn't have affected me that way, but it did. Even my doctor didn't believe me until he tested it, and less than 20 minutes after he gave it to me, I couldn't keep my eyes open. He said he had to research it, and it turns out that less than 1% of the population has this response to Ritalin. Imagine that, I am actually in the 1% of something, and it turns out to be the group that falls asleep.

It is a battle of wills for me. A battle that I don't always win, but I can assure you, I am never bored.

Here is something to look into, on of the many 'energy psychology' modalities that often seem to work like magic, if used consistantly. The link I'm posing is for Tapas Acupressure and they have done work with the US Army on ptsd.

healmyptsd.com...



I only mention this one because it's the one I trained in and know most about - there are many different types out there: EMDR; BSFF, EFT.... and so forth...

It works on other 'dis-eases' as well and a variant helped my daughter focus during difficult tests and not panic.

The difficultly I've noted with people which your areas of concern is maintaining consistancy/daily maintaince of treatment of whatever type and particularly so for those on the Bi-Polar scale.

As recommended before - seek the help of an experienced professional and don't try to 'fix' everything at once. That one has worked wonders for me throughout my life. Working with a more experiences person I break down the different problems and then prioritize working on them so that I can focus on one thing at a time. It has helped me overcome some very difficult (and overwhelming) challenges (physical, mental, emotional and interpersonal) over time.

For the immediate future - just take your meds as prescribled for the bi-polar. As you gain experience and control over the other areas using cognitive/behavioral/energy modalities without meds you can revisit your approach to bi-polar.

They all overlap and reinforce each other so it will take time to tease out the concrete aspects of each on YOU. Meditation is key but I agree with an earlier poster - it can make a fractured mind more so. Tease out facts from the stories you tell yourself.

It's a glorious journey.

originally posted by: Tyrion79
a reply to: rickymouse
If I understand it correctly, certain types of food, or ingredients, affect your mood or body?
I'm interested on several ways.
I've not been diagnosed with anything medically and haven't, consciously, noticed changes in my behaviour or body after eating anything, besides obvious food poisoning of course, which anyone can notice.
Is this related to any kind of behaviour change that is known?
I've heard of sugars and artificial colourings affecting children with ADHD.

All food is effective on the way we think. We are usually so used to it that we do not even notice it. It is normal to us. When you eat a piece of pizza you are different than when you eat potatoes or when you eat ice cream.. When we consume multiple foods in a meal, it kind of balances this effect. From doing individual eating of things and studying how it effected my thinking, I found that what I used to think was completely wrong. You can adjust mood easily with foods. You can adjust memory with food consumption also. Food is complex chemistry but almost everything has an effect that is distinguishable.

Not all the effects are bad, some effects are good while other effects take about five or six hours to show up. Eating liver makes my eyesight better within a day. Braunsweiner works well too. Now this is probably because I can't make retinol very well, others may not notice anything. Vitamin A /Beta Carotene has no effect that I can tell of on my eyesight as found in a vitamin pill. Carrots do make my skin oranger if I eat a lot of them. They also make me more alert but do not help my eyesight. I have done extensive testing on myself with hundreds of different foods and tried to identify what chemistry causes the changes. If I eat a lot of prepared food, my ability to think is compromised, I can't identify what is happening and have trouble remembering to pay attention to what is happening. I sort of live in la la land almost like the overall feeling I had when I used to drink.

I purposely doped myself for many years using foods and beverages. I did not want to be thinking all the time or getting worried or paranoid. I guess we all do this kind of stuff without actually realizing it. It keeps the doctors away if you have no stress though, but the other health effects of doing this do emerge after many years of doing it and you start getting more forgetful and wonder how come you aren't as intelligent as you used to be.

a reply to: onequestion

first off TCP/IP encapsulates the data with error checking. And I don't believe ADHD is what we think it is! However I will agree with your assignment that the data "information" is fragmented but its in the hard drive "brain" not the transmission "TCP/IP" or act of receiving the information. If this is a computer assessment defraging the C:drive is in order which is just a fancy Tech way of saying you need to consolidate the data into specific sectors.

Now when we look at the brain neural pathways control consolidation which can be seen with alzheimer's disease when it's degenerative neural pathways are closed and memories vanish. IE so their has to be a healthy correct way to map neural pathways in the brain which would remove the ADHD. However people which ADHD can produce positive results better then normal people when the mind is actively engaged in something and this is where I believe things get interesting. People with ADHD may not be malfunctioning as society would like you to think. ADHD could be the evolution of the brain trying to branch out in order to collect or process data faster and more effectively however its having a problem with error checking and bottle necking in the process aka information overload.

a reply to: jobless1

ADHD could be the evolution of the brain trying to branch out in order to collect or process data faster and more effectively however its having a problem with error checking and bottle necking in the process aka information overload.

I don't know if I really buy into the ADHD label that some doctors want to pin on me, but I do admit that this is how I feel at times.

It is like I have all this information in my head and it makes sense to me in individual sections, but when I try to match it with another section, it just doesn't fit. Sometimes I know it will fit, but I feel like I am missing pieces to lock it into place. The most frustrating is when you have all the pieces in the correct order, locked in, and it makes perfect sense, but you can't explain it so others see it and understand it the way you do.

They understand the individual sections and some can even understand some of the groupings, but you feel you lack the ability to make it clear enough for them to see it as a whole. It is like trying to describe an experience. You can paint a picture but there is always something missing.

Sometimes it does feel like my brain is running like an engine racing in neutral. Sometimes it feels like I am on a freeway with no exits, or too many exits, with me fighting to find the right one, and often wasting time, turning off on more exits then is practical. Add to it the angst that you are fully aware of what you are doing, and it takes the strength of angels to make you stop.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: jobless1

ADHD could be the evolution of the brain trying to branch out in order to collect or process data faster and more effectively however its having a problem with error checking and bottle necking in the process aka information overload.

I don't know if I really buy into the ADHD label that some doctors want to pin on me, but I do admit that this is how I feel at times.

It is like I have all this information in my head and it makes sense to me in individual sections, but when I try to match it with another section, it just doesn't fit. Sometimes I know it will fit, but I feel like I am missing pieces to lock it into place. The most frustrating is when you have all the pieces in the correct order, locked in, and it makes perfect sense, but you can't explain it so others see it and understand it the way you do.

They understand the individual sections and some can even understand some of the groupings, but you feel you lack the ability to make it clear enough for them to see it as a whole. It is like trying to describe an experience. You can paint a picture but there is always something missing.

Sometimes it does feel like my brain is running like an engine racing in neutral. Sometimes it feels like I am on a freeway with no exits, or too many exits, with me fighting to find the right one, and often wasting time, turning off on more exits then is practical. Add to it the angst that you are fully aware of what you are doing, and it takes the strength of angels to make you stop.

the computer analogy seems to work between us. Are you a tech or are you into computer science? I didn't actually elaborate on why I think it could be evolution or the cause for the evolution. The why of the evolution is simple "less energy consumption"Although the brain accounts for less than 2% of a person's weight, it consumes 20% of the body's energy." that is a massive amount of energy.The human brain is responsible for roughly 20% of our total calories burned each day if you have a 2000 calorie diet that's 400 calories a day. To put it simple if the brain wanted to evolve on the same current path calorie consumption would rise creating strain on the body and since everything is connected functionality wise everything would have to adjust. Now the cause of the brain evolution is for "redundancy" or error checking if the brain get damaged it creates new neural pathways to the information it needs by routing around the damaged parts of the brain. Imagine now the brain is a computer it is simply creating a new pathway to the information. What if the brain was creating redundancy in every connection by trying to link everything together. What this would allow the brain to do if damaged is to heal then reconnect to the information it lost.Think the cloud type of logic. this would also allow the brain to create the shortest path to the information which would reduce energy consumption however in the early stages the signal would get picked up by everything and responses would fire out from everywhere.

I'm not a doctor, I would guess if true my assumption would have shown up on a brain scan image and someone way smarter then me would have figured it out by now. This is just a wild guess

I was never diagnosed but i've been under the impression, and people that ive talked to about it agree with me that I have definitely have some mild form of adhd. Whatever it is, it got me yelled at by my 9-5 manager all the time when things seemed to slip my mind, but for what I do now and what I am meant to do it is a perfect tool for creating and expanding ideas. Its made me worse at talking to people, but not in a bad way; just a different way. Ive seen what the drugs did to my friend back in highschool and it basically turned him from someone that was excited to be around people but bad at schoolwork, to someone who seemed to lack any emotion or energy at all, still bad at schoolwork. I think a better solution can be found in cannabis, a certain something just needs to be pinpointed and extracted. There's something about it that relaxes the mind from the cluster# of thoughts that barely seem to organize into structured points, but being stoned all the time isnt for everyone so just having that effect on the mind and nothing else would be clutch discovery