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Turkey shot down Russian Jet: reportedly by two F16's

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posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 04:15 PM
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originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
I also find it somewhat telling the US sent a squadron of F-15C aircraft to Turkey at the beginning of the month. The F-15C is only armed for air-to-air combat roles, and is one of the most proven air combat assets in the world. Why would such an advanced platform be required against the Syrians? Unless it wasn't deployed for the Syrians, but rather the Russians instead.

Did someone know in advance that Turkey and Russia were going to be dancing partners????


I think the idea was to show Turkey and other NATO allies that they should feel secure against Russia. And that they needn't be so neurotic.

I think Ergodan took this the wrong way, that it was permission to get more aggressive with Russian aircraft. A #ty ally.
edit on 24-11-2015 by mbkennel because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 04:15 PM
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originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
I also find it somewhat telling the US sent a squadron of F-15C aircraft to Turkey at the beginning of the month. The F-15C is only armed for air-to-air combat roles, and is one of the most proven air combat assets in the world. Why would such an advanced platform be required against the Syrians? Unless it wasn't deployed for the Syrians, but rather the Russians instead.

Did someone know in advance that Turkey and Russia were going to be dancing partners????





Well recently I came across a leaked document from the pentagon predicting all of what's happening now. So yeah, I think somehow this was calculated...

Interesting tidbit you said +1



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 04:16 PM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: angryhulk
Turkey isn't doing itself any favours here.

Russia is not. They violated airspace and then refused to respond to warnings.



The Russian jet came down in a Syrian Province. It's common for a nation to claim another nation is violating its airspace .Especially this close.

Turkey is protecting ISIS, and they just committed an aggressive act of war against Russia. I don't think this will turn out pretty. If Russia was hitting ISIS targets on the Turkish side of the border, this would be different, but they weren't. Radar is not the most precise thing.

A minor airspace violation of a single aircraft which might have gone a mile or so does not exactly constitute an act of war. I guess it may technically, but then with that logic, the US should have shot down dozens of Chinese and Iranian planes over the years but they didn't. Turkey is protecting and harboring terrorists, and are trying to use gray area to lift pressure off their terrorist allies. It won't end well for them.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 04:16 PM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk


"Did someone know in advance that Turkey and Russia were going to be dancing partners????"

Haven't they always to some extent been "dancing partners" through given the geography of the land in question?

Crap like this happens, has done before and will do again.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 04:18 PM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Ukrainian "revolution" hasn't changed Russia's mind.

Neither has the sanctions.

Or the downing of the passenger plane.

Or the shoot down of a Russian bomber.

It's one provocation after another. Clearly the west isn't going to bend to Russia's will and by the looks of it neither is Russia. It's only a matter of time before it goes full nuclear.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 04:18 PM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

They're not advanced. The F-22 is advanced, the F-15 is a 1970s platform that's been upgraded.

They were deployed though to be escorts for high risk strike packages. The F-22s have been used in their AWACS role so that the E-3s could stay over friendly territory.

That meant that the strike packages had two options. They could either drop their ordnance and run in the event Syrian or Russian planes came at them, or carry less ordnance and add air to air weapons. The decision to deploy them was made shortly after Russia deployed to Syria.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 04:20 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Belgianbloke

Syria has nothing the US wants.

China got the oil contracts in Iraq.
We have nothing in Libya.
Iraq is all chummy with iran...


What is the US getting?


The only reason russia is in syria is to keep their base. If isis were the real reason russia would have gone in a long time ago.


Pipeline route... there are two major pipeline proposals connecting iran and other major oil producers to europe. Guess what is the unfortunate country through which both rival pipeline proposals cross? Yep, you guessed it, Syria.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 04:21 PM
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a reply to: jmlima

The US is a competitor to Russia and Iran in petroleum production.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 04:24 PM
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Stop putting the blame on Europe and the United States or even Russia. This situation was started long before these countries were actually formed. The ME has been in disarray for many centuries and sure I give you all that any of the above players have been profiting from it and even fueling the issue but the core problem is a different issue. Many have tried to solve the issue but the key problem remains. ISIS is just the "current" face of that problem.

The problem is that the ME can't change. You think the Presidential debates here in the US are full of opinions? Go to the ME and you will find that elevated by factor 1000. The inconvenient truth is that the ME doesn't have any leadership and at the same time has so many micro-leaderships that it's impossible to know who is actually in charge. There are so many tribes, different groups of religion, different groups within the same religion, different viewpoints on the same topic, different cultures and subcultures within a small area of the world. There is no way in 1000 years that the ME will ever change because it just can't.

It's also nothing that an outside country or community ever can solve. We might can contain certain things but we won't solve it. Especially in a system where Human life is still not considered as valuable. What do you expect?

It's insanity and everyone who traveled to the ME can see that with their own eyes.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 04:26 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

The key word was "proven"; I am very well aware they are upgraded older technology. However, unit they sent over is a Crack air-to-air unit, one of the best in the Air Force.

Edit....I guess I did say 'advanced' in my post also. I probably should have said capable.




edit on 11/24/2015 by Flyingclaydisk because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 04:29 PM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Of course. You send your best, because they're a lot less likely to make a mistake because someone did something unexpected. I bet you'd find most of the Russian pilots are their better ones, that get the most annual training.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 04:32 PM
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originally posted by: voyger2
a reply to: Xcathdra

in terms of bitching, i only see one bitch around here... for more than 60 pages you always say the same ####.

You neglet the higher consequence of turkey procedings: Russian are/were fighting agaisnt terrorists, turkey is not the target, russian airplanes violated turks airspace only once and for 17 seconds, in a territorial "meshed" borders (turkeys border goes inside syria in tiny place) that coud be consider a pilot's mistake.

All of that being true and/or a fact, shooting down an airplane could it be consider, IMO, an agression more serious/severe than any casual airspace violation.


What exact terrorists was Russia fighting against there? ISIS doesn't operate in that area of Syria.
Russia was warned recently to not enter Turkish airspace.

If it is true that they were warned 10 times, it could not happen in 17 seconds. As more details arise, we will see ihow long and how many warnings without response.

edit on 24-11-2015 by reldra because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 04:36 PM
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I have always wondered this, perhaps somebodt with insight could inform me?

Turkey says it gave the Russian pilots 10 warnings..in what form do these warnings come across? I assume verbal speech.

If that is the case, what language is used for warnings? Russian, Turkish, English, all of the above? Are pilots trained in other languages of lands they fly over?

Not looking for excuses from anyone, ive just always been curious about this.
edit on 24-11-2015 by lightedhype because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 04:39 PM
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You know it is not like Russia or Turkey or any other nation is surprised this happened. Russia has been pushing the Turkish border in Syria for some time and doing that in a literal war war zone is likely going cause an incident. Russia was hoping to intimidate Turkey to back off demands that Assad must go and it did not work. Russia going into this knew this was a possibility and accepted it as a risk. What is Russia going to do about it? Not much. Turkey is not a part of the US/EU sanctions on Russia and trade with Turkey has been vital for Russia.

So Russia could cut off Russian Tourism to Turkey, cut it gas sales, or sanction Turkish food sales into Russia. However, Turkey is one Russia's biggest buyers of wheat and natural gas. They also have several pipeline projects with the Turks. Sanctions and counter sanctions between Turkey and Russia would be a disaster for Russia already weak economy.

So what can Russia do? Likely cut a deal with the Turks, a public announcement of sanctions on something not important with a private promise of another gas or pipeline deal if the Turks do not retaliate letting Russia save some face. This is the likely scenario.
edit on 24-11-2015 by MrSpad because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 04:40 PM
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a reply to: lightedhype

Warnings, as all ATC instructions are given in English. The Russian pilots understand English quite well too.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 04:40 PM
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a reply to: lightedhype

Pilots and controllers have enough English to be able to communicate regardless of the country. English is considered the language of aviation and is used around the world.

If they have people that speak the language of the nations around them they'll try warnings in multiple languages including English.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 04:40 PM
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a reply to: lightedhype

In my country turkish violate our airspace everyday... Many times when russian warships or aircrafts (not only russian, also israelli, etc), turks try to pretend that its their area and they give warning, because these monkeys dont respect other countries, so its not the first time that turks do that. I mean, even if turks gave warnings to the pilot, the pilot didnt violated their airspace. He was inside Syria airspace and he has no obligation even to speak to them.

So there is no point even talking about warnings.
edit on 24-11-2015 by Ploutonas because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 04:41 PM
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a reply to: Belgianbloke


Well recently I came across a leaked document from the pentagon predicting all of what's happening now. So yeah, I think somehow this was calculated...


No, you didn't.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 04:41 PM
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originally posted by: bjarneorn

originally posted by: 23432
Germens have been covertly undermining Dollars with their Euros for sometime . Maybe Nato thought yeah here is an opportunity to break up Nato .



Non Nato protected Germens and Italians vs Non Nato protected Turks .

France will of course sell the Germens out at the end .


Well, I don't see it quite that way ... but similar.

Who hates Europe, as much as they Hate Russians and as much as they hate Germans and muslims alike.

Think about it, Europeans or Turks going against Russia ... whom does it serve? If it RHTF ... the US isn't going to do a damn thing, except help speedup the process. In the end, Europe, ME and Russia in ruins ... will mean total US domination.






mostly agreed except few things ;

1 - US Domination will be contained to Americas only .
2 - China & India will form the second bloc .
3 - 1+ billion sunni muslims under the leadership of Turks .
4 - Aging old European Fraulein with Boris unzipping his pants with a deja vu look on his face .



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 04:42 PM
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originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: Belgianbloke

originally posted by: rigel4

Turkey #ed up ..

16 second escort... heck, this in normal circumstances this is a none event.
Why Turkey acted the way it does makes no sense.
Now if the plane was flying towards Ankara now that's another story.


Stopping the indiscriminate bombing of Turkmen civilians doesn't make sense to you ?



The indiscriminate bombing of Turkmen was NOT happening so far..........but now your moron PM in Ankara has called for it and he will be acknowledged graciously. Sympathies !!



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