Turkey shot down Russian Jet: reportedly by two F16's

TO COOL THINGS DOWN TURKEY SHOULD IMMEDIATELY GIVE $10M EACH TO FAMILIES OF 2 RUSSIAN PILOTS + 1 MARINE KILLED AS A RESULT OF TODAY'S ACTIONS...........IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

originally posted by: 23432
Turkmen ain't going anywhere ; they will fight for their land .

Wow... Muslims that actually fight for their own country, well done turks! You just earned a slight bit more respect from me.

Anyway, I am not dissing Nato, I am dissing Turkey. I am not a fan of Turkey, and I don't think they should be a part of EU, atleast not with Erdogan in command. And I strongly feel, that we aren't told everything, yet somehow I feel that Turkey did something they shouldn't have done. The first thing they did was to call the US "Hey, uuuh.... We shot down a Russian jet fighter."
- What they should have done was to (As another member wrote.) Document the Russian fighter jet violating Turkeys air space. I also found a Russian source stating that Turkey DID NOT warn the Russian jet. Yet somehow all we hear in the western media is "Russian jet shot down, was warned 10 times!" Alright? Who knows, maybe we are being lied to, maybe the Russians are lying. Either way, Russia is as we speak moving heavy war ships down to the areas, don't remember the names of those areas. And ordered them to SHOOT ANYTHING THAT THREATENS RUSSIAN SOLDIERS.

So.... Turkey should NOT have shot that plane down. That was the dumbest # they have done in a loooooong while.
I really really REALLY hope Nato kicks out Turkey.

Btw, why does Turkey fight the Kurds?

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: crazyewok

and civilians syria has been murdering with russian assistance...

Assad hasn't been attacking the UK or EU so he not my problem.

He is to busy murdering his own people...

You are reaching now arnt you?

That doesn't refute my point that he hasn't attacked the UK or EU.
Anyway civil wars are bloody.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: crazyewok

and civilians syria has been murdering with russian assistance...

Assad hasn't been attacking the UK or EU so he not my problem.

He is to busy murdering his own people...

I have to ask, Do you believe everything you write ?

a reply to: crazyewok

The prime minister does not need parliaments approval to declare war. The term you are looking for is called the royal prerogative.

originally posted by: ken10

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: crazyewok

and civilians syria has been murdering with russian assistance...

Assad hasn't been attacking the UK or EU so he not my problem.

He is to busy murdering his own people...

I have to ask, Do you believe everything you write ?

Do you Believe everything russia and assad claim?

originally posted by: bjarneorn

originally posted by: Gin
a reply to: Ove38

Russia has all the right to attack Turkey if it really wants to. What Turkey did was an act of war, massively breached NATO ROE for interception of any aircraft.

Yeah, but he won't ... he's going to "claim" on paper that he is protecting the airspace. While in reality, he will have the aircraft not go to this zone. This is going to make a "safe" zone for the rebels, and eventually turn the tide on their whereabouts inside Syria. It will also show Putin and Russia as weak, and Ukraine will be lost to them as well.

Unfortunately, the Russians weren't as prepared as we thought.

I suppose that is why Russia as we speak, are reinforcing their dominance in the air, with more ground to air missile weapons in their current base in Syria, and they are moving two heavy warships down to the area, in which one of them has the possibility of carrying nuclear warheads? Alright...

a reply to: Xcathdra

You must visually intercept the aircraft and have visual contact with the pilot.

If the aircraft is on an exit course of an extremely narrow band of airspace, interception is uncalled for.
At the halfway point, an aircraft encroaching upon airspace if on an exit course, has complied with warnings and orders and cannot be fired upon.

The minute the aircraft is out of your airspace, it cannot be fired upon and you must turn around and go home.
If you know the purpose of an aircraft operating close to the border, accidental encroachment is allowed and necessitates no scramble or interception, unless the aircraft is on a path into your country with no defined exit point. If the aircraft is military and clearly armed, an airborne sentry consisting of an interception squadron is encouraged to fly a holding pattern along the border for quick turnaround. (Note, that doesn't have shootdown or even radar lock anywhere in the definition of turn around)

Do not fire upon an aircraft that is leaving or has left airspace. It is an act of war that bars you from inciting article 5, as nato is a defensive military organization and article 5 only covers a nation attacking a nato country without direct provocation of that country, or an objective act of war against your now present aggressor.

NATO is a defensive organization, not an organization used to bully larger countries behind allies. The airbase is almost in warning range of Turkish airspace. Have fun without NATO.

There was 6 seconds where a lockon could have been appropriate, but engagement would be prohibited. Afterwards the actions constitute an unprovoked act of war. Even under the least strict terms of NATO ROE for interception, last actions is an attack on russia, and therefore any attempt at article 5 incitement during the reprisal will be nullified by the provocation.

And no, there has been thousands of interceptions throughout the cold war on both sides, and never has there been a shoot down in the history of it happening. There has always been an attempt at visual direction to the pilot of the intrusive airplane at the very least.

Turkey regularly intrudes upon Greek airspace and is intercepted and turned around at worst, while they threaten Greek planes who fly by their own islands a few miles from your border.

No matter what you say, and no matter how you spin it or try to defend it, that was an unprovoked act of war and any reprisal or attack by russia is justified. The right to inact article 5 is nullified.

www.nato.int...

This was from when the cold war was insanely hot. The basis ROE for every country is summarized at the top. If even a few of these were followed, turkey would be in the clear and none of this would have ever happened.

originally posted by: ken10
I have to ask, Do you believe everything you write ?

She's all emotions, and very little logic.

a reply to: angryhulk

HOW do you know that? less then 24 hours and you can say without a doubt you know this information?

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: crazyewok

The prime minister does not need parliaments approval to declare war. The term you are looking for is called the royal prerogative.

He does if he wants the publics support.

How can you conduct a freaking world war when 90% population wants nothing to do with the fight?

How can you conduct a world war if half of parliament quits?

You want the UK to turn into a freaking dictatorship?

What is it with you and your war drum? Stocks in the MIC failing or something?

a reply to: Gin

Right... NATO roe's as you claim but didnt link to dont apply since article V has not been invoked. Turkish roe's apply and russia was warned last month what they were... and still ignored them.

a reply to: Gin

NATO isn't a defensive organisation anymore ... it's a "bully", and I'd bet that they are indeed behind Turkey's action here.

originally posted by: JDmOKI
a reply to: angryhulk

HOW do you know that? less then 24 hours and you can say without a doubt you know this information?

What are you referring to?

I do not trust one thing with this war.Assad never proved He got rid of His chemical weapons.U.S.never proved Assad had chemical weapons.I do not know if Assad is more dangerous than the Syrian rebels or whoever takes over Syria.I do not trust Russia nor Obama admin because of obvious lies with propaganda with gun running operations.

Syrain rebels joined al-qeada,al-qeada is pure evil,al-qeada joined ISIS,ISIS and al-qeada are both insanely evil.Then the news media pretends like ISIS is worse than al-qeada.They are all insane and evil.
So trust worthyness is gone over there is this war.John McCain pretends like the Syrian rebels are realy good guys.Then you suddenly hear there is only 5 Syrian rebels trained out of the blue on the media.
Also people joining ISIS from all over the world.
You cannot make the madness up.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: ken10

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: crazyewok

and civilians syria has been murdering with russian assistance...

Assad hasn't been attacking the UK or EU so he not my problem.

He is to busy murdering his own people...

I have to ask, Do you believe everything you write ?

Do you Believe everything russia and assad claim?

Erm, No....I watch a variety of news channels (RT, Al Jazeera along with BBC and Sky) and I use my OWN brain to form an unbiased opinion.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Link to Nato ROE is there in my message. Guess you didn't read my whole post as you replied to it after a whole minute...

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Ove38

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Ove38

What part is tripping you up about a NATO response?

What response ? What would they do ?

If you arent familiar with how NATO works may i suggest you brush up on it before posing such questions.

I don't think they would do nothing, why should they ?

a reply to: victor7

caps doesn't make your points stronger

Man you're all rushing to judgement. This blind "Russia can do no wrong nonsense" has got to stop.

Maybe Turkey was in the wrong but we still don't have all the facts but people still jump on Russia's bandwagon. If you can claim you know who did what in less then 24 hours without being biased ...

I'll pay you money to be my fortune teller

a reply to: crazyewok

Again he does not need parliaments approval, as you claim, to declare war. In case you arent familiar Britain is a constitutional monarchy and the power to declare war rests with the sovereign and his/her government (prime minister). If you are going to lip off about your government maybe know something about it first.